JackFrost

if we lose the rest of our games we'll finish bottom and get relegated HTH

14 points ahead of the skates after 12 games

14 points clear of the skates

But they wouldn't have. Because at that point a lot of them were under strict orders to put up a cordon between the two sets of fans whilst they were in full view of fans being crushed to death How would they have led the fans to safety on to the pitch when the police force were still treating it as hooliganism at that point? We're getting into what ifs here but if the cages hadn't been there the Liverpool fans would have been forced on to the pitch and the police's response (as they were treating it as a pitch invasion at this point) would have almost certainly been to drive them back off it with force thus sending thousands of panicked people back down the narrow tunnel. And you only have to look at the Berlin Love Parade last year to know how dangerous that would have been. There could easily have been as much fatalities/injuries if the cages had never been there. The cages were about as much "the real reason" as a car is "the real reason" as to why people get run over. Way too simplistic

Christ, just discovered this. Deeply disturbing live footage of the Valley Parade disaster in '85 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11UP99uHMuI&feature=related All caused by a discarded fag end. The bloke at 5:50 didn't make it.

But they didn't just make stupid decisions. They failed to even do basic crowd control practices in advance of the game. There'd have been a serious risk of death and injury if only ticket holders had turned up. A lot of fans were late due to unannounced roadworks on the motorway and it was clear the top men directing things had no idea what was happening on the ground. People were dying in the pens and there were still a load of coppers in full view of it still putting up a cordon between the Liverpool and Nottingham fans. Unfortunately I suspect a lot of the junior officers had the choice of either taking orders or saving coppers. I wouldn't mind betting the copper who ran on the pitch to get the ref to stop the game disobeyed orders to do so. There were many aggravating factors but the police's operation was a logistical and strategic disaster. You just have to read eye witness accounts to know that routine safety measures weren't even being implemented full stop as the first fans arrived at the stadium

So not much to do with coppers directing thousands of fans down one narrow tunnel to one stand, that ended up with nearly double the amount of fans that was deemed safe? Or the failure to routinely place coppers at the exit of the tunnel/entrance to the pens to divert fans into the side pens to avoid a crush? Besides thousands of stadiums had and still have cages surrounding the pitch that have hosted thousands and thousands of high profile football matches completely safely. A lot of the stadiums may have been death traps back then but the cages certainly weren't the only reason as to why that was the case. As for the coppers all being retired, I first joined the police force 7 years before Hillsborough and had to take early retirement from the force only two years ago. I wouldn't mind betting quite a few of the coppers who were there are still in the force today. And if they are all credit to them.

I wonder if Arsenal are one of the clubs wanting this, given their start to the season

I see Scheckter wants his son out of Indycars http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/15335428.stm

I wonder if it is partly a cultural thing but what I don't get is why the only thing around the outside on an oval seems to be a concrete wall? Surely they could and should have come up with a safer solution years ago. I just don't see how in this day and age it can be considered acceptable, especially if you compare this with Smiley's crash 30 years ago and to me their not THAT dissimilar in the way the car has broken up and the general safety of the circuit. Compare an F1 crash from anytime even in the 90s to now and there is a very apparent difference in the standard of safety. Watching Indycars crashing now reminds me of F1 in the '70s

RIP Dan Wheldon You have to say the safety of Indycar racing is light years behind other open wheeled formulas even with the higher speeds involved. I remember seeing youtube footage of Gordon Smiley's fatal indycar crash from back in the 80s. One youtube user's comment summed the crash up perfectly. "Holy S**t"

I remember it well, it happened 3 days after I was promoted to CID. Whilst there were other aggravating factors (motorway accident, fans without tickets turning up) this all took place in an outdated stadium for those times, which was part of an outdated infrastructure that could not get anywhere near to coping with the boom of football's popularity in the late 70s/early 80s. It's so sad this wasn't even the first fatal stadium disaster in this country for the relevant authorities to take notice. A lot of the stadiums back then were death traps even for those times. From the police's point of view the whole thing was a strategic cock up on a terrifying scale, and I doubt we will ever find out the true extent of it at all, not least until all the authority figures back then are long in their graves. There'll be more information released I suspect but nowhere near enough.

Fair post

LOL it was only a couple of years ago I heard him referring to the Russian team as the Soviet Union As for Sky Sports I hear Merson's been involved in a car crash

has anyone seen the safety car yet? I've done 4 races, one of which had a 4 car accident at the first corner and haven't seen it thus far. I have damage turned on and doing over 20% race distance which is the criteria (I think)

He left Leicester after Pompey beat them 5-1 I think. It was the result that took them off the bottom of the table last season. Considering how badly Sousa has done in England I'd think he'd be a good candidate Like others I fear they'll get someone like O'Driscoll but Burley or Avram would be priceless.

Sousa is ina 3 year contract at Videoton, who are third in the Hungarian League and could qualify for Europe

That would be the dream scenario. The Russians unveiling George Burley as the new Pompey manager. It is but a dream but if it did become reality that would the one of the funniest things of all time in football. Ever.

couple of skates I know "would take Mark Hughes or Alan Curbishley"

Well we'll miss his post-match interviews that's for sure. It'll be an interesting indicator as to who they get in to replace him. Don't forget they need to find someone daft enough to take on the job in the first place. Could Avram come back? I wouldn't rule it out. . .

Surely Ho isn't Peter Storrie?

Don't start getting liberal on apostrophes.

FIFA don't take kindly to government interference. They'e suspended international teams from competing in competitions before

I got 12

Morally I agree with you. However Barnard will be able to afford a very good lawyer