St Jim

It's Prom-es

at no point have I said or pretended he’s a world beater, just merely pointing out his goal return isn’t as bad as a lot of people seem to think. As for not starting games, he has some world class players ahead of him and there’s no shame in that. It doesn’t mean he’s 5h!t, just not a world class player but it doesn’t mean he can’t improve us. Anyway, welcome to the club Guido!

His return at Estudiantes wasn't as good as Monaco (a goal every 2.4 full games (full games based on 90 minutes played) vs a goal every 2 full games) and had one poor season (2012/2013), where he returned 4 goals in 16 full games. He also had a poor season at Monaco (2015/2016) where he returned 5 goals in 21 full games. His final season at Estudiantes he scored 13 goals in 22 games (18 starts and 4 on a sub) and returned a goal every 1.5 effective full games. His last 2 seasons at Monaco (last season and this season) his return is a goal every 1.49 full games a goal every 1.1 full games respectively. I don't know if this will appear correctly as I'm pasting it from Excel - [TABLE=width: 1123] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD]Total[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD]Monaco[/TD] [TD]Estudiantes[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD]2010/2011[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD]2011/2012[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD]2012/2013[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD]2013/2014[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD]2014/2015[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD]2015/2016[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD]2016/2017[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD]2017/2018[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Appearances[/TD] [TD=align: right]237[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]96[/TD] [TD=align: right]141[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]4[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]23[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]30[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]62[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]22[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]41[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]31[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]24[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Games Started[/TD] [TD=align: right]125[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]32[/TD] [TD=align: right]93[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]3[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]6[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]14[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]52[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]18[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]17[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]9[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]6[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Games on as Sub[/TD] [TD=align: right]112[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]64[/TD] [TD=align: right]48[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]1[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]17[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]16[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]10[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]4[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]24[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]22[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]18[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Mins Played[/TD] [TD=align: right]12679[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]3774[/TD] [TD=align: right]8905[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]276[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]671[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]1468[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]4785[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]1705[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]1910[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]1071[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]793[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Effective Full Games (90mins)[/TD] [TD=align: right]141[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]42[/TD] [TD=align: right]99[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]3.07[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]7.46[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]16.31[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]53.17[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]18.94[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]21.22[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]11.90[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]8.81[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Goals[/TD] [TD=align: right]63[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]21[/TD] [TD=align: right]42[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]3[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]4[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]22[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]13[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]5[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]8[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]8[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Full Games / Goals[/TD] [TD=align: right]2.24[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]2[/TD] [TD=align: right]2.36[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]0.00[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]2.49[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]4.08[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]2.42[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]1.46[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]4.24[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]1.49[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]1.10[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Goals /Full Games[/TD] [TD=align: right]0.45[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]0.5[/TD] [TD=align: right]0.42[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]0.00[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]0.40[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]0.25[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]0.41[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]0.69[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]0.24[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]0.67[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: right]0.91[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE]

I'm not fudging the figures. In fact I'm putting context around them. 18 goals in 3 seasons sounds 5h!t on the face of it but when you look at his game time and the number of goals per 90 minutes on the pitch, the return isn't bad. This isn't fudging the numbers, it's called analysing them. What the numbers don't show is the situation behind those goals (i.e. is the standard of opposition (as you pointed out), the style of play at the teams he's played at, the quality of players around him etc.). Whether he will be a good investment, who knows, but for people to say his goal return is 5h!t, is just nonsense.

Not sure where this idea that he isn’t a goal scorer has come from. I posted earlier on this thread that based on his time on the pitch (because he’s been used as a sub in so many of his games) he’s averaging around a goal every 2 full games, which is half decent.

So in total, including league, domestic cups and international cups throughout his career he's had: Appearances - 237 Starts - 125 Sub Appearances - 112 Minutes Played - 12,679 Effective Games - 141 (Minutes Played / 90) Goals - 63 Games per goal - 2.24 Goals per game - 0.45 Not as bad as it initially looked. Also just looking at his Monaco career and looking at his goals to minutes on the pitch, he's scored 21 goals in 3729 minutes (equivalent to 41 effective full games). This is a return of a goal every 1.97 games (every 178 minutes) or 0.51 goals per game. Based on this, if he started every game and played a full 90 minutes we could expect him to return 17-19 goals a season. Obviously playing for Monaco in the French League is arguably a completely different prospect to playing for Saints in the Premier League and I imagine he'll find it harder to find the net (particularity give a lack of supply).

I don't know whether the 20 goals were all scored from starts, sub appearances or a bit of both.

Problem with stats is how they are interpreted and then spun or worded to fit a certain angle/perspective. The 20 in 29 was from starts. There's also 43 appearances as a sub in there too. Wiki seems to have 2 goals missing which were from non-league appearances (i.e. cup games / other games). What would be really telling is the time he has spent on the pitch versus the goals scored. If those sub appearances are just the last 1-5 minutes each time, then the stats are pretty good, however if they are each 25-45 minutes, then that make it more Long than Kane. I suspect it's somewhere in the middle. Also, stats don't always show the bigger picture (i.e. what else about his game will benefit our team, does he bring players into play, can he hold the ball up, does he create spaces with movement off the ball etc). I've never seen him so can't comment but will say it can be slightly misleading to look at stats (particularity goals to games ratio) in isolation without a little more context and knowledge of the player.

We are going to get ripped a new one. I’m going to do my impression of the board and put my head in the sand and hope it all goes away.

It's not a personnel issue, more a coaching problem. They have players that should, under a different coaching set up, be able to defend. I've no doubt VVD would improve them but he'd only be papering over the cracks.

been on twitter? this has to be tweet of the day ........ https://twitter.com/Danmcguire1985/status/922188475868372998

I'll save Lord T the effort ..... Choose your Karl .......

Obviously Lemina was a stand out and on the whole a much improved team performance, albeit against a poor side, but special mention to Long. With him spearheading the attack we are able to move forward with more pace and his hold up play was excellent. Whilst he has obvious deficiencies in his game (goal scoring being one of them, as well as his tendency to get caught offside) I felt the attack looked much more balanced than in previous games.

Davis made and scored the goal That said I do agree, Tadic and Redmond aren't there to be solid, they're there to create. Long has been his pain in the arse self.

wtf! Just when I think nothing from the few would surprise me, I see this. you know you're not right when a skate calls you a wrongun

WHAT is it with YOUR capital letters whenever you POST?

Pretty happy with the window overall - we've come out of it stronger than we were at the end of the season. We've not lost any first team players and strengthened two key areas. It's obvious that the forward area is a place a lot of fans feel need addressing, particularly since Pelle and Mane left, however I can't help feel that was what Boufal, Redmond and Gabbi were meant to address that, so it is down to MoPe and the coaching staff to work with them to get the best out of them. Gabbi has certainly shown us he can score given the service, Redmond has shown glimpses of what he can do, however his decision making and his shooting radar need a fair amount of work, and Boufal I think needs game time. For me 7/10

If people cannot see that Davis adds to the team then it shows how little of football and team sports they understand.

TBF every club has their resident Corporate Ho's, that said LFC do appear to be up there with the bestest TM

I was firmly of the opinion that he's staying until the past few days where a few posts have suggested it might not be the case and not think he'll go. If we get the price we feel represents good value and selling VVD allows us to pursue and purchase a player who will improve us in other areas, I for one will be pretty pragmatic about it and see it as good business, particularly as we now have Hoedt on board. If he stays I'll be equally happy as it shows the club won't be bullied. 11pm Thurs can't come soon enough so we can move forward as a team and concentrate on the football without this hanging over us.

We've been linked with Vietto

I would be interested to see how many of those 137 shots that didn't hit the net are Redmond

agree with this. for me the biggest issue is decision making in the final third, and for me that is partially down to coaching. Looking at the squad we have i would feel comfortable if we didn't sign anyone and if we do, they'll have to be a player who not only is above the level of the current squad but also makes the right decisions on the pitch.

Imagine if we did sign Hoedt, it would be pretty embarrassing for you.

Didn't look like any other result until thier first. As much as Forster should have done better, Bertrand was either ball watching or couldn't be ar$e& to get to it (personally I'd drop Bertrand for a couple of games, he was awful or not bothered today). Redmond also need dropping. Acknowledge the through ball for Gabi's goal but aside from that he didn't look threatening at all. Didn't run at the defenders, didn't use his pace and trickery and just seemed to rely on his modus operandi of get ball outside box, shoot, miss, repeat. JWP was fantastic when he came on. His delivery was what we'd missed in the second half. Surely he'll start at the 'Udders