Minty

Pretty shocking atmosphere from the home fans... can hear OWTS clearly.

See, that's a reasonable judgement IMO... I do wonder how many keepers would have saved it though? Anyway, it's long gone now.

I agree. This is what people seem to keep missing... it's not HIS fault he's not good enough, so stop taking it out on him in such a disproportionate manner.

Don't get me started on people who judge players by their price tags!

No, I'm happy to concede that he may have been able to prevent the goal with better goalkeeping, but that the criticism he is getting is pre-meditated and disproportionate.

I still don't think it's as clear cut as some make out but that's football. It's not black and white.

Criticism is one thing, some of the comments he's had are way OTT. As I already said, that's my point. And more importantly, he's the only GK we've got... you need to support people in that position, not crush any trace of confidence they may have had... and when you compare todays 'mistake' with some of Boruc's this season, like the Arsenal one, todays was nothing like it. People have made their minds up and Gazza is on a hiding to nothing.

No, that's not what I said, don't be ridiculous. Read it again.

But he is playing and deserves a bit more support IMO from some of our fans, rather than this constant expectation of a mistake... that's what bugs me the most. What happened to the notion of supporting our players, even if we know (and I agree) that he's not the best?

Thing is, if he DIDN'T come for it, I guarentee that we would've had people saying he should've come for it. He made a decision and yes, perhaps he got it wrong, but the condemnation he is getting is completely disproportionate, that is my contention.

I'm all for reasoned debate about these things, but statements like these are silly IMO. It seems once people have made up their mind about a player, they're almost looking to blame them for anything to justify their opinion. I've seen it a few times now. He does hesitate and he could've done better, but the pace on the cross was deceptive and made it hard to judge, and so to make a comment like the one above is way OTT IMO.

Disappointing, but not surprising to see people so eager to criticise Gazzaniga for their third... that was a fantastic cross that Boruc would've struggled to get to. Doesn't seem to matter who the player is, once people have decided someone is not up to it, they look to blame them for anything they can.

Well if we're being picky, there is the Universal Declaration of Human Rights...

Now THAT is a silly comment... I hope it was a joke but I fear not. I eat hardly any meat and get all the nutrients I need because I know what I need and I know where I can get it. My wife had a blood test before we first started trying for a baby and was told that she had ideal levels of nutrients in her blood, better than many meat eaters, because we take an interest in what we eat. The whole 'if you don't eat meat you don't get enough iron' or whatever thing is cringe worthy. That said, as I commented earlier, a lot of these stories are prompted by the fact that some people seemingly need to be told what is best for them because they are incapable of working it out for themselves.

NHS Choices is pretty generalised advice - tinned fruit can vary massively, some have added sugar and all sorts, others only come in their own juice as they were from the plant. Hence my point about doing your own research and looking at what you buy. NHS Choices can only give general advice however so it has to appeal to the lowest common denominator, and hence only a short comment about in its own juice... quite correct but only a very small part of the story. To be fair to VW, the thread would probably be helped by sticking to the subject and not picking on him or whoever. But hey, that's just Saintsweb.

I just listened to that on the way home and it was excellent. Cheers hypo.

[video=youtube_share;Qw9oX-kZ_9k]

And a government subsidy...?

Gotta love some of the comments on that page - makes it sound like a major earthquake or something given just how 'shocked' and 'scared' people were. And my favourite 'this sort of thing doesn't happen in Southampton!'... It's a building fire. No, it's not good, but they HAVE happened before and probably will happen again in the future. Get a grip. lol.

VW, I'm not sure that's the best place to start to try and cost it out... you would need a balanced mixture of veg, not just one particular item which happens to be relatively expensive compared to other options. It also depends on what else you spend your money on... we make smoothies and soups and other things at home for options for breakfast and lunch, which is cost-effective compared to some people who think nothing of buying breakfast and/or lunch on their way to work and spend anything up to £10 a day (and probably more, especially in London). We also rarely eat meat which saves a lot of money too, but we get all the nutrients from a range of wholefoods. I'm not trying to set myself up as an example, everyone will work it out for themselves if they want to. But it is entirely possible with a bit of thought. I look at it like this: Apart from oxygen (and pollution at the moment!), food is the one thing we consume all day everyday. As a result, it is the one single thing that has the most influence on our lives, and yet for many people it is the thing they try to spend as little as possible on, and rely on medicine to 'fix' them when they get ill. I view food as a form of medicine... permanent medicine, that will look after me if I 'take' the right stuff. Finally, pople say they can't afford good food, but what many of them mean is that they CHOOSE not to spend more than a certain amount on it, and would rather spend on holidays, clothes, Sky subscription, technology or whatever else. That's their choice, but they should be a bit more honest with themselves about it IMO. The smoking thing is an interesting one and probably for a separate thread.

Interesting stuff Hypo, I might have to look up that Alistair Bryce Clegg chap, ta.

Sadly very true. Too many people are governed by what they watch and read, rather than what they learn for themselves.

Before this turns into a pointless norwaysaint vs VW diversion, I want to pick up on a couple of things that were mentioned earlier. Firstly, and importantly IMO, this isn't just about longevity. The issues of day-to-day health and life expectancy are often connected in some ways, but equally there are many, many areas where they are not. Some people have terrible habits and nutrition but do indeed live a long time - I'm not sure about their quality of life however if they're going to the Dr all the time or generally don't feel as fit and well as others. Some smokers live much longer than non-smokers... people are different and so the various things we do to our bodies affect us in different ways. Others live healthy lives, keep active, eat well, rarely go to the Dr, feel great, but can drop dead at 50... sh!t does indeed happen. We have lots to learn. But I actually don't particularly care about my life expectancy. I eat well because I want to feel good every day, not just live a long time. For me, living is about feeling good and making the most of every day, not stretching it out as far as I can. And I know, having lived at least 30 of my years not eating particularly well, that the last 6/7 years of my life I have never felt better having changed my diet (along with exercise and other things). Secondly, it never ceases to amaze me how people judge the 'quality' of food. Take at my work for example. We have a fruit delivery from a local farm, most of which is organic. A lot of staff think it's poor quality because there is usually a few items which have marks on and aren't completely blemish-free 'like in Asda' (which is over the road)... but actually this stuff is infinitely better quality because it hasn't been subjected to pesticides and artificial growing conditions etc. Most supermarket fruit and veg is going to be pretty similar in terms of how it is grown and therefore its 'quality'... the things that the supermarket generally influence will be the time from grower to market, and how it is treated on the way, but its origins are generally similar, unless you specifically buy a 'local' line or organic. Finally, IMO, whilst Lord D and others may feel that everyone knows about this stuff, I can categorically state that they don't from first hand knowledge. And even if they do, the degree to which people recognise the importance of nutrition, and understand the various different aspects of nutrition, varies massively. As a result, I think any publicity for studies like this is worthwhile... those who want to can ignore it and so be it... but for many others, I hope it inspires them to learn more about what they're eating.

So what are your strong opinions then Hypo? I can probably guess, but credit (IMO) for not stating those views too early in the thread... so often discussions on here get sidetracked early not because of the subject but because of the opinion of the OP.

I think it's important to differentiate between the different kind of skills too... feeding and toilet training etc, should be taught and reinforced by both parents and nurseries IMO, wherever the child happens to be when it needs to eat/go to the toilet basically. But other developmental work needs to centre around allowing the child the time and space to learn and explore more freely, similar to the Scandinavian model, IMO. And the thing that I always struggle with is the fact that some people see it as one or the other... either let them be creative and free with their time, OR learn in a more structured way. Well, it seems to me that kids can still learn a huge amount whilst playing, counting and reading things with them as they go, etc, and it's more likley ot stick because they're having fun whilst they're doing it... it's almost subliminal teaching. I'm no expert btw, I don't have kids and I'm not a teacher or anything like that, but I am very interested in all this so have done a fair bit of reading, primarily in anticipation of starting my own family soon.