Saint86

I believe were were rumoured to have lost to Bristol City and beat a barca youth side.

On this we agree, but it does highlight how bad we are 🤣

I think very few people have actually written him off... so as @The Kraken said above, calm down somewhat. You're going to cause yourself a lot of aggravation if you deem right from the start that no one can raise a word of caution... How are you going to handle a potential cup upset vs Lincoln - they do happen... Jones is an unknown manager at this level, but he and the club knew that when he was given the job of trying to gel a young relegation threatened team... the pressure is going to be on him to prove himself and to ultimately succeed. That is natural and it is to be expected that people will take an interest in how he manages the team, his methods, what he says etc. Frankly it would be downright weird if that wasn't the case - Not least because all our fans are rightly concerned about where the club is right now. And within all of that, fans will see traits/signs in Jones to be positive about, and some things to be wary or concerned about. No manager is going to be perfect.

This is wrong though isn't it... Some people have a good eye for when someone should have scored etc. Some people are less fortunate, and are afflicted with similar judging abilities to your Jenas's or dixon's... But xGs vs actual goals is an incredibly simple way to statistically contextualise the finishing ability of our strikers. Unless you disagree and think they're finishing is acceptable for the chances generated? 🤣

It doesn't have to be a relegation scrap though. Or didn't have to be at any rate. We were 13th for xG and joint 15th for goals conceded when Ralph was sacked. That's despite having to gell a young inexperienced team, and with significant injuries to 4 of our best players in KWP, ABK, Lavia, Tino. The reason we are where we are, is because we were 18th for goals scored. I'd say the promotion /adkins prem team carried more attacking threat at the start of our return season that this lot (Lallana, lambert, jayrod). I can't be the only one who's Immediatley bite someone's arm off to have those #3 (previously only championship players) in our side now? We never replaced ings fully, and then we never even replaced broja 😂. It's beyond shocking on a recruitment front. And I think it's fair to say that adding a quality attacker would also have improved our xG stats as well. The issue now is that Jones has got to perform better than Ralph with much the same players (albeit without the same injuries) just to keep us up, which I don't think is a given because I think (or the stats indicate) Ralph was actually doing alright with the players that were actually available. We just badly had to sign an attacker in the summer, and we have been unlucky with injures this year. I want Jones to do well and I'll back anyone that tries as long as they're trying and carry a threat (assume we all will). But I also think he's up against it, and the body language in that video (albeit it's only a snap shot) is slightly concerning. If the players don't listen/respect him for these early games, we're going down.

Any somewhat negative story about saints and Sheldon is all over it like a rash.

Fair enough I guess. He's tended to move around a fair amount in his career. Be interesting to know the reasons behind it, but what really matters is we make a good appointment on the back of it.

Now that would be something i'd love to see 🤣

Initially i liked the look of what he was after in that video. However, after re-watching it, t doesn't look like a single player in the video is actually listening to him, Lyanco and Diallo actually look bored / rather unimpressed when he is speaking, and i don't think there was any meaningful sign of the smiles/enjoyment he was trying to encourage in them? Possibly a concern - But equally its hard to gauge much from a short clip and hopefully that's reading too much into it - probably just the media team selecting only certain kinds of shots. Bound to be a few players who don't suit the new manager, ditto some that will offer exactly what's he's after... I guess we will find out whether we get the required changes/improvements over the next few weeks at any rate!

I think they should give him a shock collar or something, every time he hits it at the keeper in training he gets a shock.... Surely that would lead to a positive improvement in his finishing?

How much do you reckon MLG wants to bash out a list of successful football managers / coaching setups that never played/managed in the premier league prior to their appointments 😋... What's worse, is that without him, potentially no one will do it 🤣 In all seriousness though, Saints (since our return), are probably a case in point that it doesn't matter too much.

I had totally forgotten he did it tbh, and i can only vaguely recall it now. I guess perhaps that's the nature of these injuries - we more readily remember the ones that ruin players. I'd say the combination of pace and power was a large part of Broja's game, but if he does drop a yard of pace I suppose he could do worse than follow a shearer style career 😅.

Are there any players that make a truly full recovery from these sorts of injuries? In my mind, it feels like they never really reach the standard they were before, even if they do get back to a similar level?

Imagine being a premier league level footballer and being unable to handle criticism on an online football forum... tough old life.

http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/league/soto.htm Think those attendance numbers hide how much our return to good form impacted things. 2007/08 - 21.25k average - Hit by start of financial crash. 2008/09 - Championship relegation season with 17.8k average - Also feels the full impacts of the global recession i would guess. 2009/10 - league 1 -10points we had 21k (matching 2007/08 in the champ) 2010/11 - Promotion season on the back of the EFL Trophy win we average 22.1k (a 2k jump related to form and fan enjoyment) - Comparable to lower championship attendances. 2011/12 - Champ Promotion season - 26.4k - A further 4.3k jump due to improved form AND competing at a higher level. This was circa 3k higher than any previous championship attendance - including the playoff season (23.6k) 2012/13 - Our return to the prem - 30.8K - A further jump of 4.4k due to improved form AND competing at a higher level. Lighthouse's comment about larger away attendances holds true to a degree for the prem, although not as significant as first suggested i think. But if people are going to attribute a 4.4k jump as being just down to premier league consumers magically turning up, are we also saying that the championship is equally as popular with its 4.3k jump in attendance in 2011/12? - fans that weren't there for the previous championship playoff season? Hmm.... I don't think its as simple as that surely. As a regular and season ticket holder throughout pretty much all of that journey, i'd personally say that trends in attendance (certainly post administration) have a lot to do with the phoenix atmosphere, general momentum, and feel good factors around the club, as well as good quality attacking football, some fun cup runs, the exciting young players coming through, and in us generally being competitive (and on form as a result). That carried through to the prem with a strong fan bond and people keen to see what the side could achieve in the top division. 🤷‍♂️ Equally our prem attendances up to 2017/18 were at 30.7-31k, and since 2018/19 they've dropped down to circa 30k or lower quite consistently. So not just premier league consumers, but fans not happy watching a struggling saints team following the heights of European qualification and the EFL cup final.

Yeah, but how many of them do you want to see lining up for us in the premier league? 😆

Lambert was the best striker in League 1, arguably the EFL. The parallel for in the premier league would be going out and signing Haaland. Which obviously is a non starter. Moving from the lambert analogy to just a "proven goalscorer", that is surely something that can only really be said in hindsight - after all, Che and Adam Armstrong both had pretty good scoring records at their respective clubs? Ultimately though I don't think Saints can afford to go out and buy a proven premier league goalscorer that routinely bags 15goals a season etc. The last one we had was Ings - he cost us £20M because of his injury troubles and lack of game time. It was a gamble by the club really, but it worked out well for all parties and having proven his fitness and form; he was then valued at circa 30M as a 29year old who was intent on seeing out his contract. What injury prone 29year olds with a short contract should we be going out and spending £25-30M on? Gakpo and Ramos were good targets for Saints - obviously they're now out of our league. But not signing anyone was a huge error. Proven low cost goal scorers were available this summer, perhaps not quite at the Gakpo/Ramos levels of future stardom, but even Openda (£7M from Vitesse/Brugge to Lens) would have been a good addition to saints. A young player that's now averaging a goal every 2 games in Ligue 1 and had a better record than Broja at Vitesse (who he played alongside partially), also been looked at by Leicester. We seemingly had no plan B and went for the moon or bust. Maybe we never really had the intention to sign Gakpo/Ramos, and this is just a classic case of looking like they tried to appease the fans. But not signing anyone of the retired level was absolutely schoolboy. Only saving grace is that if we go down, we've got a great bunch of kids coming through, as well as a decent youngsters in the first team. Although it would be just like saints to lose another golden generation of academy players because we're struggling in the lower leagues.

Yeah that comment did make me laugh... It was posted on the same day Germany had nationwide arrests against a far right ex military group plotting to overthrow their government 🤣🤣. On the personal terms front. All we can go on is what our owners have said - that we agreed personal terms with two strikers playing in champions league qualifiers, and whose teams then qualified. Which basically fits Ramos and Gakpo, of which there was an awful lot of media buzz about us signing them.

Regardless, it seems unlikely. https://talksport.com/football/efl/1240325/blackburn-ben-brereton-diaz-staying-leeds-blow-transfer/

Keept it realistic you say? That will be Liam delap and cole palmer knowing our scouting...

I assume that's Diaz. In which case yes please!!

Pahars would be a start, is there anyone in the fanbase that wouldn't swap peak Pahars for Armstrong? 🤩🥰😍 What we really need is a Davis or Beattie (if we're sticking to parallels with those days). Coincidently, both 20years old when they signed for saints. (Aka 5-6 year olds by this thread's counting 🤪)

FWIW - MLG liked my post 😎😙 (and thus my saintsweb career is now complete)...

This is such a bizzare narrative and one that I don't think holds up.... Simply because the "5 year olds" we've signed in recent windows are some of our best players 😅. ABK is in the Germany squad, Livramento was a key first teamer for us until injured, lavia is so good he is Immediatley our best player (imo) and Chelsea liked him so much they bid £55m on deadline day. Mara hasn't really been given a chance so a question mark on him fine... But Edozie looks decent when played and was a cheap signing, ditto larios. Salisu is also a good example of a quality young player. Whilst bazunu is certainly no worse than forster and macca in recent seasons. 👍 Our issue is we've spent too much money on older squad level players expecting them to be first team quality for a mid table team... They aren't / haven't been, and they have higher wage demands and limited resale value. Well actually, the biggest issue is we never replaced ings... But the point is, it is not because we signed a load of good quality youngsters at any rate. Ralph had us 13th for xG, if we had signed a class striker/attacker we'd have been even higher in the xG ratings and we certainly wouldn't have been 18th for goals scored when he was sacked. Its a failure by the recruitment team to not sign another promising youngster (gakpo) that's largely responsible for the impending scrap... But the recruitment outside of a quality striker was good 🤷‍♂️

That was my take on the game. At the start he was a bit of a deer in the headlights, but he grew into it and showed there is something there. Seems crazy for people to be bludgeoning such a young kid over that particularly debut appearance. And its bizarre if there were people thinking we were signing a £1.5M youngster with no first team minutes to be a first team left back in the premier league. He may be having a tough year given his PV loan, but he's got many more years to reach the required level for saints. I also thought his interviews etc showed him to be a keen player, nice lad, and perhaps a bit cocky - but that is true of a great many teenage boys and something that usually changes as they get older.