Saint86

City are rumoured to have first refusal on any accepted offer, and they have a buy back clause (rumoured at £40M) that comes into affect next summer. They're also rumoured to have a sell on clause. Whatever happens they have the option to match (and likey get an effective discount on) whatever any "rivals" may pay this summer. But saints still hold the cards - we can decide to keep him if we wish (knowing we'll still be able to demand £40M next summer), or we can cash in now... City don't get a say. Also didn't lavia sign a 5-6 year deal when he joined? If we can afford it, we should put our foot down and keep him - unless someone offers silly money. But this stuff you're saying about saints breaking the 'deal' because we get relegated, and for city then having some controlling say over saints' transfer policy because we're relegated... that is just pie in the sky talk. Its also bordering on 3rd party ownership to say stuff along the lines of, "city won't be happy with him playing championship football" etc etc. He isn't their player anymore, regardless of what securities they have in place to facilitate a buy back.

How soon is soon? 😂

Back to back promotions *and a net negative spend...

https://talksport.com/football/1306867/pep-guardiola-mikel-arteta-arsenal-barcelona-vincent-kompany-burnley/#:~:text=Three people who have learnt,the way in the Championship. Would be foolish to dismiss anyone who has spent significant time learning from Pep imo.

From the swans fans, he sounds like a but of a claude Puel clone that can't break down defensive sides - which we'll face a lot of given we'll presumably be the big fish with higher quality players etc. Surely he'll be less likely to put us to sleep during an interview / press conference though, so that's a positive at least.

His contract is till when, the last game of the season? end of June? How much is he on? We have a huge overhaul ahead of us - all sentiments aside, i personally would want to give the new manager as much of that time as is possible - certainly at the expense of some minor compensation.

If this deal is as good as done, i can't see why we've not appointed him as early as possible and given him this time with the squad and before the Liverpool game.

JWP's strengths aren't holding midfield though - he's better as all round central midfielder or playing further forward. He's played there for us because needs must (alternatives being diallo or AMN). If a team is out for a holding/defensive midfielder they shouldn't be going all out for JWP imo given what we'll ask. Newcastle already have Bruno and Joelinton as CMs, yes they are different players, but i can't see the value for Newcastle in signing JWP when they already have two very good central midfielders. I agree though, they might well go out and sign a ready made holding midfielder - like philips or say... lavia.

They started the year with Tuchel and were fine. They would be going down if they had started with Lampard.

Limited value to Newcastle though surely? Not better than Bruno or Joelinton for the roles they perform, and they have Trippier for set pieces.

Should be in everyone's list surely? if not no. 1!! That is what it was all for - saints back in the big time, the culmination of years of strife in the lower leagues. Big man comes on and boom, queue scenes. Most memorable moment of them all for me.

Because he clearly loves the club, is well grounded, and has a happily family life settled in the area? I think he'll only go to be a regular at a top 10 club and preferably he wants European football. If he can't get that, he'll have to weigh up what his legacy will be when he retires - what will be be able to look back on, what will give him the most satisfaction? His only chance at all with england is playing regularly at a top club and performing well (and that's if its even possible over the likes of Philips, Rice, Bellingham, Gallagher etc). After that he'll want European football... and he'll want that free kick record... Will he trade the possibility of leading saints back to promotion against just playing premier league football for another club? That's clearly a decision for him and i doubt many really know his mind on that - but i bet it would be a tough choice for him. FWIW, I think he'll try to hold fire this summer, see what the rebuild looks like, and make a decision on his future at the back end of the window depending on whether he thinks we can get promoted or not - If SR mess about doing another 18year old investment team he'll definitely want out.

Would be curious to see how many goals, assists, and chance creations etc. per 90 does Lavia have to his name? how many 90min does Lavia manage - bearing in mind JWP will be running for 90+8min etc every single game of the season for what, 4 years now? Against that, how does Lavia perform defensively in comparison to JWP? I suspect the answer is that yes, JWP is the better player for saints right now. Ideally we keep both and Alcaraz - we know Lavia is going for circa £40M next summer either way. We have parachute payments, players like Ely and Walcott are on relativley big wages and leaving, the young players are on lower wages and long contracts (so aren't a liability), and the squad has circa 40% wage reduction clauses... If saints are ambitious and want to build a "young" project, then we should be trying to build and gel a team by winning the champ. If we sell players like KWP, ABK, Salisu, Tella (rather not), Orsic, Onuachu, Adams etc - but kept Lavia and JWP, would anyone actually complain? How many sales do we actually HAVE to make given the parachute payments and wage reductions? Sod it, you can chuck in sales of Lyanco and Perraud for all i care - JWP, Lavia, and to a less extend Alcaraz are our stars. Also shifting the above off of the wages and replacing with cheaper wage players would help - and that can absolutely be achieved in a summer rehaul. IMO we should be keeping those 3 and doing trades on basically every other player in the squad (if it comes to it) before we consider selling them - if we have any actual ambition to go up this season.

I hope he stays and guides us back to promotion even if it takes a couple of years.... If only to see him getting praise and true legend status whilst the boo boys have to grumble miserably amongst themselves in the corner 😎. Anyone suggesting he shouldn't be one of our (or the championship's) highest paid players is smoking some bad crack. Reality is that he's far too good for that league sadly. It wouldn't surprise me if he waits to see what the owners do this summer re ambition and promotion chances before he makes his mind up. As much as relegation hurts, guiding saints back to the prem would be pretty special for someone as committed to the club as he is.

I find myself siding with MLG in that particular social media debate... 😄

I seem to recall a Rob that was asking questions at the Fans forum and claimed to be leading voice of the saints fanbase?

Ah yes Bree, forgot about him 😄

Reckon we might start the season with Stephens, Bednarek, Lyanco, and DCC as our 4 CBs. LBs are Perruad/replacement, and then Larios and maybe small. RBs will be tino plus KWP replacement (😰) Entirely new CM incoming. Although i would badly love the club to just hold on to one of JWP/Lavia and Alcaraz.

Its risky for sure. Implications are that the plan is to consolidate and then build for promotion, but that requires fan patience with whatever we get at the start. I could maybe see this as a viable plan if we were intending to keep at least some of our better players - i.e. JWP/Lavia, ABK, Alcaraz, Adams etc. But by all accounts we're pretty much shifting anyone good out of the club... So we're going to reset to a championship level of squad entirely. Martin doesn't appear to have much experience of quickly turning things around (even at MK it took him time and he new the dressing room inside out). But at saints, as fans we will surely demand performances from the get go - there has been remarkably no real reaction yet from the fans re relegation, but surely a bad start upon landing in the championship and it is going to turn incredibly toxic and hostile?! I think he could be good if we keep some of our genuinely better players for him to build a spine around at least...

Reading that, it sounds like he is being hired to be part of a project with the intention of being given time. Which suggests possibly a stabilising approach to the championship and building towards promotion - Or at least, that is Martin's comfort zone.

Don't know enough about him other than they'll be plenty of goals at both ends. What's clear is we'll need some clinical finishers, a rebuilt central midfield, a rebuilt defence, and a good keeper... that isn't changing whoever is manager 🤣

Those are the raw stats - its up to you to interpret them but don't shoot the messenger because you don't like someone referencing them - just read on . You'll also see me make note of the fact that within the players ranked above him on that measure, there will be players with limited number of low xG shots yet scoring (i.e. free kicks, worldies, statistical outliers etc) - so i don't think that's where he literally sits for how clinical he is, but that his stats do suggest he isn't the most clinical striker in the league. Again, we'll just have to disagree. Also, clinical strikers and their impact on tactical styles is clearly related, I'm not sure what you're arguing with there to be honest. Clinical strikers (such as ings for us vs Armstrong/ely/che) make a huge difference to how a team plays/performs. If you can score with every attack you don't need to be as open at the back. Swansea were extremely gung ho and created a lot of chances, but equally they only achieved a +4GD as they were too open at the back - and that won't get us promoted. We're hiring a manager that is very attacking and open at the back with a team that's already demonstrated it can't defend and a keeper that is still very raw. We're likely losing our best central mids and defenders on top of that, and we then look to be signing a striker who is far from the most clinical in the 2nd tier. It doesn't inspire confidence currently. A fresh start, some positivity / winning mentality, and continuity in style (if we get to carry it up into the prem) is all good - but i can't see that Piroe is a significant improvement on paper over our two former champ strikers.

A JWP free kick goal would be nice...

Eddie Howe debate is fairly academic. Our squad has been appalling in recent years due to lack of investment - I don't think Howe or any manager would have done meaningfully better than Ralph did. End of the day our attack at the end of last season / before SR started buying players this summer was Adam Armstrong, Che Adams, Ely, and injured Stu, a loaned out Tella, and walcott. I also suspect SR would have gone out and signed players under basically the same strategy this past year regardless of who the manager was. If anything the fact that we spent £160M and Newcastle spent £150M - and they're 3rd and we're 20th should tell you all you need to know about the comparative levels of overall recruitment this past year.

To be fair, i just sorted by non penalty goals:xg for that one, which gives him as 91st 🤷‍♂️. Agree with you on his comparative rankings against similar players. Bottom line is I would have hoped we would be more ambitious. The other way to maybe look at it, is that if we aren't going to go super clinal in attack under Martin, maybe we'll be sorting out the defence to offset it.