badgerx16

Isn't the £39Bn primarily to satisfy the UK's binding responsibilities for payments into such things as EU pensions for UK MEPs and (British) EU civil servants ? I'm sure Nigel Farage isn't willing to have the UK Government renege on his £150K payoff.

All I can think of is this

Only if you preface all of yours with the same.

He got as far as 'The Guardian'.

I've been thinking about where we are, and perhaps Teresa has actually played a blinder. The referendum result, taken at face value, was to leave the EU, and in reality if you leave a club you lose all the perks and responsibilities of being a member - 'no deal' is therefore the ONLY deal. However, going directly for such an outcome was totally unacceptable, due to the myriad vested interests, and interpretations of what Brexit meant. Based on the idea that 'No deal is better than a bad deal', she had to find a way for No Deal to become a reality, so she cooked up the mess that was her 'Divorce Agreement', knowing it was never going to get passed by MPs. She then delayed the Parliamentary vote to take another month out of the timetable, and now that her 'deal' has been rejected, there isn't any real chance of an alternative being sorted. The EU won't agree to an A50 extension, so the UK leaves without an agreement.; JRM and Boris get exactly what they want, and her role as a Trojan Horse is fulfilled. ( This is almost certainly total BS )

What happens if we get to March 29th with no change in the situation ? 'No deal' may not be acceptable to Parliament, but that is the date on which we leave the EU, and therefore 'no deal' is the default outcome if they can't sort out something better.

The motion will be defeated, but I doubt she will go - the party gave her a 12 month free run in the leadership vote, when they all knew the vote on her 'deal' would go exactly as it has turned out.

Joking aside, this is the stupidity of the situation; the Conservatives had a chance to get rid of May, but voted to stick with her, knowing how bad her 'deal' is, yet now a significant number of them will vote tonight to reject her proposal and create more turmoil and instability.

bend

Apparently the Government are proposing that the NI Assembly has a say if the 'back stop' comes into effect. There is only one slight problem with that, the Assembly isn't currently in place.

Wes, you said that the economic uncertainty after a second vote would cause 'havoc to our economy'. Shurlock countered by saying that a 'hard' Brexit would do the same thing. Your next prod at him said "Stop making things up. No doubt you will happy to identify the post where I said there would be economic havoc.", and Shurlock then posted "You said that the uncertainty arising from remain winning and the campaign for a new referendum would cause havoc to the economy I.e. economic havoc. ", which is an accurate quotation from your original post.

QUOTE=Wes Tender;2702187 The damage to our democracy will be incalculable, as the electorate will ask why Parliament ignored their previous vote. Furthermore, the Brexit campaign will continue for years, with the pressure to hold another referendum starting the day after the vote, and the economic uncertainty during that period causing havoc to our economy. Both the main Political Parties will suffer substantial loss of support in ensuing elections, as new factions will be formed, including those which are more populist. ./QUOTE

It obviously didn't affect JLR's decision to move production to Slovakia, nor that of the German ball bearing manufacturer that is closing it's factory in Llanelli.

They were linked to him before signing VVD, and he does have a good goal scoring record for them.

Project Fear again ?

It would help if it wasn't behind a paywall.

You are aware that some comments are posted to introduce an element of humour, even at a 'playground' level, into the dank morass that this thread tends to descend into ? My little play on the meme "How do you know when a teenager is lying ? His lips are moving." was obviously too subtle for you. Why are you still obsessed with Osborne's economic projections, which at the time of the referendum campaign could not be proven or disproven, yet seem unconcerned by the other campaign propaganda claims I mentioned, which at the time were easily shown to be complete fabrications ?

Not at all, I disagreed with much of what Cameron & Osborne stood for, and instigated. My vote in the referendum was decided before the vote was called - I am, and have always been pro-Europe, and thought a lot of the Vote Leave campaign was fuelled by 'Little Englander' memories of an historical version of Britain that never really existed. That, and an appeal to a xenophobic tendency that was exploited by Farage and some of the more right-leaning press.

Q)How do you know when a Politician is lying ? A) He's a Politician, what else would you expect ?

George Osborne talking b0ll0x - what an unusual and unexpected occurrence. Does this balance out the £350 million per week, and the 80 million Turkish migrants ?

I'd swap armstrong for Cedric, we look more solid with 3 CBs, and we will be under the cosh for the 2nd half. Use Long and Redmond on the break.

Lucky Mrs Long.

So, after a lot of huffing and puffing, posturing, and name calling, we can conclude that post the referendum vote in 2016, an Indian company accepted some incentives to move part of it's production out of a country that had just decided to leave the EU, to one that was staying in. Who could have predicted that ?

( Let's go fishing.......) David Lammy speaking in The Commons; “Why do some many in this house continue to support Brexit, when they know it will wreck jobs, the NHS and our standing in the world.” “This is the fundamental dishonesty of the heart of the Brexit debate, most MPs must now recognise in private but do not say it in public.” “Brexit is a con, a trick, a swindle, a fraud. A deception that will hurt most of those people it promised to help.” “A dangerous fantasy which will make every problem it claims to solve worse. A campaign won on false promises and lies.” “Vote Leave and Leave EU both broke the law. Russian interference is beyond reasonable doubt, and by now, every single campaign promise made in 2016 has become unstuck.” “I say we must not patronise them with cowardice, let’s tell them the truth – you were sold a lie.” Blame us, blame Westminster, do not blame Brussels for our own country’s mistakes and do not be angry at us for telling you the truth, be angry at the chancers who sold you a lie.” “There is no left-wing justification for Brexit. Ditching workers’ rights, social protections and ending environmental cooperation is not progressive. This is a project about neo-liberal deregulation, it’s Thatcherism on steroids pushed by her modern-day disciples. “Leaving the EU will not free us from the injustices of global capitalism, it will make us subordinate to Trump’s US. “Socialism confined to one country will not work, whether you like it or not, the world we live in is global, we can only fix the rigged system if we cooperate across border lines. “The party of Keir Hardie has always been international. We must not let down our young supporters by failing to stand with them at the biggest issue of our lives.” Read more at: https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/david-lammy-brexit-con-trick-fraud-house-of-commons-video/

The World has moved on from 2016, politically, and as a consequence things today are being viewed from a different perspective than when the referendum was held. Donald Trump was elected US President 5 months after the referendum, and part of his political agenda has been to publicly state that he would like to reduce the USA's commitment to NATO in Europe. His recent meetings with Macron and Merkel seem to have persuaded them, and consequently the EU, that perhaps more consideration might be given to closer military integration between the armed forces of the main European nations, most of whom, after all, are in the EU, so that they are less reliant on the US. This is important where European and US 'interests' differ, on such things as trading and working with Russia. The article Batman referenced is one of several that have been published recently where such closer military integration has been discussed. But that is all there is at the moment, discussion and opinion pieces. It is still, therefore, a fact that there is no EU army, and there is no likelihood of one being formed in the immediate future. So, as you can see, in 2016, denials of an EU army were accurate.