John Smith

If les reed or anyone else is having an influence on 1st team tactics, morale or position, you wouldn't need to sack me, i'd walk. If you are judged on results and someone else is adversly effecting those results, then there is no point continiing with destroying your own reputation in this way. I can't believe NC would allow this to happen though, clearly something is not right though amd that is for NC to sort. If he doesn't HR is the one failing in his job. Who is taking responsibility at this club, I do hope its not reed!

Rarely do Thedelldays and I agree, but I think we do on this one. Taking fantasy football out of it for a moment, let's applaude the achievement Nigel made in getting this team to where we are, and yes, because of those achievements, Adkins will be close to our hearts. BUT, this is a results business and so far, those results have not been all good. Thankfully we turned around the result against Villa, and if it weren't for an own goal and a defelected goal, we would've beat Fulham, but, we didn't! And that's the issue Adkins has, we should've won, but we didn't. I will back Adkins, but also get frustrated by him when he makes decisions I think cost us the game. Sometimes, Adkins gets it right - Villa, sometimes he gets it wrong. It is down to Cortese to determine how much 'learning' Adkins should be allowed. Sure, he needs some time, but, when is the point of no return? When will we have lost enough games for the point of sacking the manager to be worthwhile, certainly not after January IMO. So, Nigel is in a real sticky position at them moment, and I feel for him. Personally, I think, if he gets through this patch, gets a few wins and gets us on a home run, he will be more than fine and we can kick on next season. If results keep slipping away, then he will increase the pressure. Missing players like Clyne and Ramirez is a massive blow, but, that's one of the pitfalls of this game - injuries. Richardson also out now, is an issue. Fox improved on Saturday, and I would suggest that this was in part down to the manager and in part the player himself. Without Richardson on the right, bombing forward, having two up front, became more unrealistic. So, Adkins needs our support, but he needs Cortese to have faith in him more so. If he continues to make 'mistakes' then Cortese will deal with this, not us (the fans). Adkins is a young manager and a premiership newbie, he HAS to learn fast, and I hope he does. But, it's a business, not a charity or a finishing school, tough times for Adkins, good luck.

Strange that this is the part you pull out from my rather long winded statement, but, to satisfy your curiosity, my seat is next to the exit, and I can see as well as hear the concourse. HTH

Am I surprised that 'people' on this forum are calling for Nigel to be sacked? No. 'People' thought we were going to crumble last year, we didn't, we gained automatic promotion behind the best team in the league last season. If I remember rightly, when we got promoted in 1977, it was behind Tottenham and it was Lawries first real stab at management in the top flight. Anyhow, I would like it known that I was disappointed with the double substitution on Sunday. It is really unfortunate that we have conceded so close to the subs being made on this occasion and also against Utd. I hope Nigel learns from this practice. But, that's what I want, Nigel to learn, not be sacked for never having to make these decisions against such high calibre teams. He was trying to secure the win, but, again, we failed, but he tried! He didn't do a Burley and freeze on the touchline, paralized by the occasion, he made his decision early and stuck to it. A manager should not be sacked for getting it wrong, he needs to be judged on 2 things, nbr 1, results, nbr 2, performances. So far, the performances against Fulham, Villa, City, Utd have all been good. Unfortunately, results have not been good, and unfortunately for Nigel,results are the most important. It will be down to Cortese to align the plan to the results, even Cortese knows we weren't aiming to be in the Prem this year, but hey, we're here, let's compete. Lastly, I just want to point out the empty seats after our equalizing goal against Fulham. The amount of seats clattering when Fulham scored their second was deafening. I was ashamed to be considered part of those idiots. We equalized and some of those walking down the stairs, start jumping up and down, in the concourse, they were celebrating. Just so you know, you 'people' disgust me. Go away and don't come back, we don't need 80min fans, we need supporters and loyalty, fickle, fickle 'people' need not turn up.

I think we can all count ourselves very lucky to be Saints fans, and this is largely down to the backroom staff and players that step up to the mark! Often, and sometimes, far too often, us fans moan about lack of commitment, lack of loyalty, not pushing that extra yard, not giving that extra ounce. Well, with a player like Rickie Lambert in the team, we all have a measuring stick to gauge others against. I am sooooo proud of Rickie for getting fit, working on his touch, working on his all round play. Don't any of you think for a moment that this was an easy task, you can see the improvement year on year with Rickie, and the only way his has achieved what he has is through sheer hard work and determination. He is an example to us all. Also, I am sure Rickie would be the first to recognise the efforts put in by the backroom staff to enable hime to get to this level, and the rest of the team for allowing him to play his 'style' of football. This is a team and Rickie is the guy that adds the gloss. I rarely mention Rickie as he is just always outstanding, but today, I feel compelled to recognise the truely magnificent rise to where he is today, and long may he continue to score at this level! (with Saints!) Well done Rickie, you are a role model for any young aspiring person out there, not just in football, but in life. You have shown what can be achieved if you try really hard and listen to those around you. You couldn't have got here on your own, so I am sure humility also has paid a part when you have been called out for mistakes or not trying hard enough. A legend in the making!

If we are going to continue with a 4-3-3 type of system, we need 6 attacking players. They don't have to be 6ft plus strikers like Lambert, or natural goalscorers like Sharp, but also pacey like this guy appears to be. By having this guy and a n other, we enable the midfield to have cover also. Lallana becomes a midfielder rather than attacker, along with Morgan, JWP etc. One more CB required and we have 2 players for every position, sounds good to me. I really hope this guy is as good as Dyer proved to be for Swansea! Good Luck lad, welcome to the Prem!

FWIW, my take on this is that Saints are making an effort to acquire a 'Big' signing. Cortese and his team have not had to deal on this level before and need to get used to it if they really want to make their dreams come to fruition (ie, really mean to push for Champions League - no, I'm not dreaming, just remembering what was claimed). It is a tough one as when you need to deal with many of these South American 'Superstars', more and more are having companies own at least part of their contract permanantly. This is new to Cortese. Also, I can see why he chose Italy to do Business with, as Cortese is probably more comfortable dealing in that culture and is very aware of the issues that arise and hopefully how to deal with them. The question he must ask is when is it too much hasstle and when does it become too much money? IF Ramirez comes, it will be an important purchase and not only for 'on the field' matters. If he turns out to be great, then fantastic, if not, then not a complete waste of time.

Every pre-season it is the same. Some panic and others don't. Those that are panicking start claiming in Adkins we trust, in Cortese we trust, happy clappers etc. Truth is, we got lucky with the centre back cover last season, what an excellent signing that turned out to be! But, we were good enough for the Championship and we never fell out of the top 2 all season! From my point of view, having supported Saints since 1980, that was the best ever season! Consistent, entertaining, dramatic and enjoyable. This season, much the same as last in relation to last, survival! Do we have the right players? Do we need more players? Will Adkins stay, will Cortese sell? But hey, that's Southampton. At the end of the day, this season is going to be one hell of a ride! Buy your ticket and step on board the Saints Roller Coaster, it'll be the biggest and best you've ever been on! We don't even know if it'll stay on the rails!

If Dan Harding does leave, then I wish him all the best. In league 1 I was glad we had him. Scoring the winner against Leeds was a great highlight, and I'm sure it was for him also!. Fox replaced him for most of last season, but, whenever Dan was needed, left back or right back, he gave everything. I felt he got a hard time on here for being a decent, consistent , committed player. I wish all our players had his attitude, a top pro, a grafter and a reliable team player. He will be a good purchase for Notts Forest, good luck Dan, if true.

Was in the Stretford End for our 5 - 0 defeat, Sherringham scored a hat trick! The Mancs were commenting on our small ground (still at the Dell in those days!) and believed we were in awe of their 'massive' stadium! Just wanted us to score ONE! Man I would've cheered!

I've not commented on the prices thus far, and apologise if it has already been put elsewhere, but I haven't noticed anyone with this view so far. Basically, I can see that ticket prices were going to increase, but, why so much? Let me put it out there first off 'I can afford the ticket and I will be purchasing my old seat again', however, I believe that at the moment these tickets have gone one sale, can someone explain to me, apart from the additional £90mill we have inherited from promotion, why costs have risen by almost 50% so the club feels it is necessary to increase prices by this much and in some places, much much more? To all intense and purpose we are still a league 1 team. Most of our players were acquired then. Some were brought in during the 1 season championship campaign and also, we have allowed some to leave, Jaidi, Holmes etc. So, where's the extra money gone? Are we spending more than £90million on a new signing? Sure, maybe 3 or 4, but £90mill? that's at least 4 £10mill players plus wages. The training facilities were already under way and in scope, the stadium is already 'improved', where is this additional 3mill going to go? And that's at least £3mill extra on season tickets? So, my question is, why such an increase when the additional money covers our increased overheads plus a couple of 10million pound + players, and the increase of ST subscription, particularly if prices only increased a small amount, would be more than adequate. Why the need? Is it champions league we are aiming for, because that's what it looks like?

When Jason came to Saints, he was an instant hit. Some of his goals were awesome, cutting in and bending it into the far corner. Then, the beginning of last season, he had a shocker. He just couldn't find his form and people got on his back. Behind the scenes, his lack of form obviously effected his relationship with the manager and for some reason they fell out. I supported Jason in those days when he was having a shocker, and I applauded and shouted my appreciation when he did something good, simple but effective. Then, he has one of those tantrums that he said he's grown out of and thinks playing for Blackpool in the Prrem will get him his Golden ticket move as everyone can now see he is as good as he says he is and stick two fingers up on his way out. Trouble was, all he could muster was a loan move on the last day of the transfer window to a club that barely played him. Then, when he's returned with no contract offer, no offers to buy at a price worthy of a premiership star winger and goal scorer, he digs in at the Chairman. Again, showing that childish quality he said he'd left behind, just weeks before on soccer am as he tried to tout himself on live tv. He even had a go back at fans that abused him for his tweets. Now, here we are, justa couple of weeks on, Jason, tail between his legs, back in the first team and appreciating the support. Well, Jason, LAST CHANCE! I am not wasting my breath on you if at the end of the season you're going to cause a stink, throw your toys out the pram and demand a move for next to no profit and to a premiership club. IF you're good enough, prove it! If you are that good, you will be at a premiership club next season - SOUTHAMPTON FC! If you play rubbish, expect to get dropped, if you play badly week in week out, don't expect the paying public to massage your ego and tell you how good you are. The moment you step over that line and onto the poitch, you give everything. If everything you've got ain't good enough, be prepared to step out of the way and let somone else give their all. And I feel Jason has been giving this chance because we are scrapping the bottom of the barrel, we have nowhere else to turn, the performance against Leicester on Monday was the worst performance I have seen at St Mary's since relegation. And so, we need someone who has a point to prove, and luckily for you Jason,m that'll be YOU. So, when you step up, when you put your heart and soul into Saints game in game out, accept the criticism as well as you accept the plaudits, you'll have my support. I don't boo my own players btw, but, I will not support a player that doesn't give a stuff about this team when he's on that pitch, to me, that's like turning up to work, picking my nose and asking to be paid, then tweeting about the director when he gives me less responsibility. I will support you Jason when you represent yourself as a profeesional of this club! When you deserve to have you're name sung out, you will get it. When you have a stinker you will have my backing because over time you have proved yourself, and everyone can have a stinker and needs support when they do. However, I've NEVER been to work where I've got things really wrong or messed up real bad or just couldn't be bothered and the paying client has gathered outside the office and chanted One John Smith, there's only one John Smith, one John Smith! Funnily enough, it probably would help, but, I don't expect it! Jason, play well, work hard and you have my support, take the p**s and if you rot in the reserves I'll happily donate to pay your wages, call it income support!

What a great thread! Asked my wife, she amazed me she knew any, but immediately named 2! Matt le Tiss (agiven of course) & Robert Dyas! I lmao! She was convinced, as I laughed, he signed for Arsenal or Chelsea or one of those big teams! I suggested she meant Nathan Dyer, and yes, he went to one of the big 4, Swansea! That was it for my wife. My Mum and Dad popped round this evening, asked my mum the same question, she's 64 to give it some gravitus, she named Keegan Channon Ball MacMenamy & Draper (I think she was talking Draper Tools) ! Then, she started thinking and thought of Beattie and that tall skinny one, you know, the Bean Pole! But also got Clarke (as in Colin), amazed! My missus then jumped in with Gerrard! there's no helping my wife, but my mum impressed me!

Good point Phil. I have been thinking this for the last couple of games now. Just for the young uns out there, compare this season to 1988/89, I travelled to all games, home and away, we were top of the league in November, Chrissy Nicholl got Manager of the Month award! We were away to Wimbledon, and in the away managers notes, Chrissy Nicholl said, he will open the champagne after our next win. Well, we lost against Wimbledon 'Crazy Gang' 2-1, and I should've known it was a bad omen when TYim Flowers scored and own goal, and one I can only describe as a diving header! Anyway, after the statement by the manager on not opening the champagne until our next win, 22 games later... Yes we went 22 games without winning, onthe bounce! And I watched all of them! Anyway, all was forgiven when Neil Ruddock scored with a 90th minute penalty and effectively relegated Newcastle that year. Then, last home game of the season, we beat Man Utd 2-1 with a 6min from time winner from Rod Wallace, after a surging run through the middle by Glen Cockerill. Now, I'm not saying this was the norm, but, year after year we snatched defeat away from the jaws of victory. We self destructed, couldn't keep he ball by the corner flag, couldn't understand that leaving men unmarked at the far post could result in them scoring! All, of this, plus the dark lord returning, administration, relegation, relegation and then finally, being saved by ML! The tide is certainly turning and I for one, am pinching myself every day! Yes, we might not get promoted, yes, we might capitulate and start losing, but, this is the first season since the days of Kevin Keegan, Channon, Ball and the like, where I actually think we will win and hold onto a lead! It's a great feeling, one that I have missed! We are Southampton, We're top of the League! Enjoy it!

A very good post saintbletch. I'm glad you took the time to hang around and view things with an open mind. I for one, certainly would expect most, even slightly curious people, to at least consider the available scenario's, before jumping to conclusions about something so massive as the murder of so many people, regardless of who you think is responsible. Just for added interest, it nearly came up with buctootim, but, I don't like to attack people who have a personal involvement, but, for someone such as yourself, who is probably dislocated from the actual sensitivities of personal involvement, you should check out 2 things: 1. Who were incharge of security of the twin towers, leading up to 9/11? 2. Who was in control of the police on the ground during the whole incident (the answer for this, isn't as simple as you may think, certainly isn't what we'd have in England) Also, if you're interested, maybe you'd look at "how many times the owners have requested the Twin Towers to be demolished". Check out the change of ownersip, who actually owned the Twin Towers at the time, who owns the site now, who will own the new site. What was the payout on the old site, what were the clauses, why were these written in? Also, sorry to cram this all in, but I have limited posts, but you might want to consider the architects and their views and also the good guy in all this, the MAyor of New York, surely he wouldn't be tied up in all this. Lastly, if it really gets under your skin, try ignoring the 'religion' thing, for example, it may surprise you what the 'Bin Laden' group do. Check out one of theoir latest offerings at Mecca. Also, if you see this, check out the new architects for the building, also, interesting stuff. Welcome to the debate, sorry if you are being associate to a nutjob...

And so, your whole side capitulates. Currently, I am not in my bedroom, when I wrote what I did yesterday, not in my bedroom. When I took a lot of time responding to you twice before, not in my bedroom. You on the other hand, I couldn't care less whether you were in your bedroom or half way up a gum tree. You have brought nothing to this debate. I have answered your feet stomping questions, and you have nothing in return, lket me point that out again, "nothing". For all your prevado and put downs about intellect, you, Mr. Thicky have missed the obvious. Yes, I did do a little test on you, and yes you failed, Mr Well Read. So, climb back up your Gum tree, swing from the tree's and you will know more than you do today. You're not worth my time, Corrie is more your level of debate, enjoy the muppet show!

LOL, I see you still haven’t been able to comprehend the obvious yet. You ask for answers and you get all flustered when you receive them. I imagine you to be banging away on that keyboard, in an absolute frenzy, like a chimp from the PG Tips advert on his night off! I like the assumption that ‘I’ am poorly read, lol, and you take that ‘assumption’ as fact by stating as a matter of fact, without any proof whatsoever. So, Chimp boy, let’s try again. Why? Because I shall endure your naivety as it is becoming quite endearing. You appear lost and are in need of guidance in this big bad World, like a voice in the wilderness crying for help. OK, I’ve proved to you that a Boeing 757 didn’t hit the Pentagon, and you have confirmed that you believe this. Now, you want to know if the Bush Administration sent a missile into it’s own defence HQ? Or if the British Government blew up the London underground on 7/7? Or maybe Bin Laden? Well, you’ll have to be slightly better read to be able to even comprehend the beginnings, let alone the conclusion. No, not because it is so complicated and utterly ridiculous, but, because it is staring you right in the face. Bush knows who did it, and he’s thicker than you, lol! You ask me if I’m well read enough and you’re being pwnd by G. Bush Jnr, lol, quality. Do you want fries with that, sorry, you must be tired of hearing that all day... The spectacle is not a collection of images, it is a social relationship between people that is mediated by images. I'm sure you'll go on and on and on, or runaway and hide, either way, you should think again before you make your assumptions, one day, you will understand, unfortunately, evolution is likely to have moved on by the time you're able stop dragging those knuckles. In the famous words of one so great: I wanna walk like you, talk like you, it's true. (don't worry, evolution will help you out).

You seem like a very angry little man, shall I appease you? Hmmm... You see, despite all your posturing and feet stamping and a very spoilt little brat technique of trying to get your own way, I shall endure you a little while longer, just because I can. Now, you'll have to listen very carefully, because this is top secret information... A Boeing 757 did not hit the Pentagon. How do I know, I here you cry, and a few more feet being stamped, I know, because it didn't. Forget the images of the collapsed front of the Pentagon, that's not what originally happened. The 16ft hole that an entire 757 disappeared into, was not big enough. But wait, I here you stamp those feet again, but the experts told me so. OK, I hear you, go to the airport and ask a kind person to point out a Boeing 757 out to you, better still, here's a link: http://www.1leaks.org/index.php?page=view/article/77/Evidence-Showing-that-NO-Boeing-757-crashed-into-the-Pentagon-on-911 Oh, and it has one of those nutjobs sueing the government for trying to blow her up... Anyway, scroll to nearly the bottom and you'll notice 2 massive objects hangining off of the wings, that'll be the 124ft wing span, those will be the engines. Do you know what kind of explosion it takes to "disintigrate" and totally "obliterate" these engines? OK, let's say you do, where does that explosion come from? It isn't the wings, because they entered the Pentagon with the rest of the aeroplane into that 16ft hole (no, not the one at the back, nice try though). What's that, they didn't? Oh, so they'll be a 124ft explosion which destroyed the Pentagon? Oops, nope, there is no other explosive area damage other than the hole. You do know the 757 stores it's explosive fuel in the wings right? You do. OK, so, then why did the rest of the plane disintigrate if the wings never entered the building? Hang on, nope, not the cabin, the tail. Why the Tail, well, becasue it's 44ft tall and contains no fuel. It also, never enterered the Pentagaon as there is no 44ft gash from the floor to the roof of the Pentagon. Oh, that disappeared as well did it? Was that from the wings exploding or the main body of the plane exploding or is this the non-disitegrated plane that slid through the Pentagon without disintegrating and then disintegrated after it exited the back of the Pentagon? Confused? Damn right! Just look at the images after immediately after the hit and before the collapse, a Boeing 757 did not hit the Pentagon! What... Still stamping feet? OK, did you know that, in order to hit the Pentagon, the terrorists had to bank 270 degrees (after following the Hudson) and in that 270 degree turn, it had to descend 300feet, and at a height of 7 feet (yes that's 7 feet), travelling at 500mph (this is the official story remember) ploughed into the Pentagon (BTW, Pentagon anti aircraft defence was not working that day). These terrorists were amazing pilots. What did the terrorists pilot trainers say about there capabilities, and I quote "I wouldn't let them drive a car". Can't be bothered with more links (I hear you stamping, but tough). Also, eyewitnisses within 200 metres of the Pentagon identified the plane that hit the pentagon as "a small commercial plane" or something similar. Check out the CCTV again, then look at the 757 image, notice the nose cone, hmm, certainly wasn't concorde that hit it, but still. Anyway, the Pentagon worker that was working out the back heard and felt the exploosion, hit the deck and raised his head to see a large military type plane pulling up sharply after a near miss with the Pentagon and it flew away. Then we have the eye witnesses that say the plane that came in from one direction, but the government say it came from another. All the CCTV from around the Pentagon was seized and has never seen the light of day again, including the shops and businesses nearby, which would've clearly shown the flight path. Now, lastly, here's a good one for you, did you know that an engineer grad from Oxford Brookes applied for recordings of the black box that hit the Pentagon, under the freedom of information act. They were able to decode it and found, that the plane was 70ft too high to have hit the Pentagon, oh, BTW, you do know the FBI couldn't recall where they found the black box exactly? Anyway, I know I haven't answered your childs tantrum of a quizzing, demanding that as the OP, I dance to your tuine and your demands, but, I hope you appreciate the time and effort put into this post and actually do some work of your own. Focus on the Pentagon, focus on what they have said, what you know about the scale of a 757 and what you can see with your own eyes. Sorry, misleading, this isn't Top Secret, it f**king obvious!

You're barely worth me wasting this post, but I'll try again, where is the proof of your credentials you claim? I thank you... (head in hands smiley thingy)

Why have you used the word 'scared'? Of what exactly, is this a threat? Or, are you saying that in response to your question you would change yopur mind implicitly, as I suggested in my previous post, which I'm guessing was above your head. Hmm, a bit rude and threatening to be any sort of film producer, interviewing important people with important, key information. Care to post a link to your film, not that I don't believe you or anything. I mean, you'd have to eb a real nutjob to make a claim like that...

So, you have returned as a conspiracy nut? Wow, big turnaround in such a short space of time. All of a sudden, you are 'demanding' to have answers to questions people have been asking for 10 years. Now, on September 11 2011, you have momentously switched your allegiance and become a nutjob, I'm impressed. Your new found interest on these tragedies has now enlightened you to the possibilities of the 7/7 debacle also. Utilizing your skills as a film maker, and being able to access people of great importance and extract top secret information from them, I for one, will be relishing the release of your next film and I hope to find all the answers contained within it, good luck and God speed...

As an addition, thought I'd add this to balance it up a bit, not all of the families of 911 want to this to be left alone, in fact some, given below have signed petitions (link below). They don't want this matter covered up, they want it brought to the fore: Family Members Joanne Barbara, wife of FDNY Asst. Chief of Dept. Gerard Barbara Gayle Barker, sister of William A. Karnes, WTC Michele Bergsohn, wife of Alvin Bergsohn, Cantor Fitzgerald Derrill Bodley, father of Deora Bodley, passenger on Flight 93 Kathryn C. Bowden, sister of Thomas H. Bowden, Jr. WTC1, 104th floor Janet Calia, wife of Dominick Calia, Cantor Fitzgerald, WTC1 Maggie Cashman, wife of William Joseph Cashman, United Flight 93 Lynne Castrianno Galante, sister of Leonard Castrianno, 1WTC, 105th floor Elza Chapa-McGowan, daughter of Rosemary Chapa, Pentagon Bruce De Cell, father-in-law of Mark Petrocelli North Tower, 92nd floor Ralph D'Esposito, father of Michael D'Esposito, WTC, 96th floor Loisanne Diehl, Surviving Spouse, Michael D. Diehl, WTC2, 90th floor Adina D. Eisenberg, sister of Eric Eisenberg, WTC Jonathan M. Fisher, son of Dr. Gerald Paul "Geep" Fisher, Pentagon Michael J. Fox, brother of Jeffrey L. Fox, Tower 2, 89th floor Laurel A. Gay, sister of Peter A. Gay, AA Flight 11 Irene Golinsky, wife of Col. Ronald F. Golinski USA RET, Pentagon Lori, Jerry, and Beatrice Guadagno, sister and parents of Richard Guadagno, Flight 93 Kristen Hall, daughter of fallen firefighter Thomas Kuveikis 9/11 Kurt D. Horning, father of Matthew D. Horning, WTC Tower One, 95th floor Jennifer W. Hunt, wife of William C. Hunt, Euro Brokers John Keating, son of Barbara Keating, passenger on AA Flight 11 L. Russell Keene II, father of Russ Keene III, WTC2, 89th floor, KBW Peter Kousoulis, sister died in WTC Paul & Barbara Kirwin, parents of Glenn Davis Kirwin, Cantor Fitzgerald 105th floor Barbara Krukowski-Rastelli, mother of William E. Krukowski, NYC firefighter Laura and Ira Lassman, parents of Nicholas C. Lassman, died in WTC, Tower One Johnny Lee, husband of Lorraine Greene Alicia LeGuillow, mother of Nestor A. Cintron III Francine Levine, sister of Adam K. Ruhalter, who died on 9/11 Bob McIlvaine, father of Robert McIlvaine, WTC, Merrill Lynch Mary McWilliams, mother of FF Martin E. McWilliams- Engine 22 Daryl J. Meehan, brother of Colleen Ann Barkow, WTC 1, 105th floor Elvira P. Murphy, wife of Patrick Murphy, WTC 1 Natalee Pecorelli, sister of Thomas Pecorelli of Flight 11 James L Perry, M.D and Patricia J. Perry, parents of John W. Perry, Esq., NYPD Officer 9/11 David Potorti, brother of James Potorti, North Tower, WTC, Marsh & McLennan Terry Kay Rockefeller, sister of Laura Rockefeller, North Tower, WTC Grissel Rodriguez-Valentin, wife of Benito Valentin, WTC1, 94th floor Alissa Rosenberg-Torres, widow of Luis Eduardo Torres, post-9/11 mother, writer Elaine Saber, mother of Scott Saber Julie Scarpitta, mother of Michelle Scarpitta, WTC Building 2, 84th floor Paula Shapiro, mother of Eric Eisenberg, WTC2 Elizabeth Turner, wife of Simon Turner, lost on 11th September 2001 Adele Welty, mother of Firefighter Timothy Welty, FDNY, Squad 288 Joan W. Winton, mother of David Winton, WTC, South Tower, 89th floor David Yancey, husband of Vicki Yancey, American Airlines Flight 77 Nissa Youngren, daughter of Robert G. LeBlanc, flight 175 from the website: http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20041026093059633 I think this particular signature is very compelling from the other list: Joseph W. Montaperto, New York City Fire Department Also, that this statement is very poignant: Following recent media-generated controversy over Obama appointee Van Jones' signature on this Statement, he and two other signatories have requested their names be removed. That has been done. Let us not forget that we owe it to those that died, their families and ourselves that the 'truth' be told. Without the truth, there will be no peace...

I'm sure that those that were most effected, were those that were directly involved through being there or their family or friends being there. It was a massive day in the lives of many. You may be flying their flag in your post, and for that, I respect your view. I am sure that all those that were directly effected in this tragedy will never 'get over' that day. Equally from the 7/7 attacks. Please do not, for one minute, believe that everyone that doesn't 100% agree with the official story, thinks anything less of the pilots, the passengers, the dead, the injured or the helpers on that day. Regardless of the actual events, I don;t think anyone thinks anything less of anybody. In your post, you also make reference to the 'loonies' and the 'fantasists', just to clarify, not everyone who doesn't believe the official story, 100%, is either a loon or a fantasist. In fact, all the way through this thread, you get the usual internet warrior answers and responses, you know, the standard looney, fantasist comments, that I am sure you were used to in your film making days on 9/11. In the making of those films, the question of conspiracy theories must have raised it's head. Out of interest, what is your take on the official conspiracy theory? Does it hang up 100%? And remebering that the official line is still a theory, as it has never been proven to be true. Same with the 7/7 attacks, no official theory has ever been proven. Therefore, you have to add to the list of conspiracy theories, the government conspiracy theories as well. In believing the theory 100%, I am assuming that the war in Afghanistan is totally justified and that the US government naming Bin Laden within hours of the dust settling, was just real good FBI work? And then, within days, a full scale invasion on the country, which, put us nicely in the region to tidy up Iraq as well. I do find it incredible that the UK was at war with a country many of us had barely heard of and the US was leading this war ona country it had been supplying weapons and training to for a good decade in it's war with Russia, which, it may be added, in all that time, the Russians never won, and it is in their back garden? These last ten years have seen a massive change in airport security, the possibility of id cards, the plastic trace of all your purchases, the freedom of the internet handed over to government control and so on. And in all of this, what have we achieved? Are we safer now? 10 years on, this war on terror, what's the status report? Is it safer for you and I to walk the streets than it was 12 years ago? And if the answer is no, does this mean the terrorists are winning? And if they are, why do we still not know who they are? Because I can tell you, not all people from the middle east are terrorists. And this leads me nicely round to your original point again, let's assume that we all believe that the Pentagon, the Twin Towers, Pensylvania crash, 7/7 etc were all commited by Muslim extremists, does this diminish your thoughts of Muslims? Are Muslims the root of all this destruction? Are we at war with Muslims? And if we are not, but we are loosing this war, could somebody please identify this group and their location that is holding the World to ransom? Because if the Saudi's, the US, Europe and the UN can't find these guys, who are we losing to? Who is this fight against? Where is this fight taking place? if it is in Afghanistan, why are they not still fighting the Russians? Why are the taliban so well armed and able to dig in? But most of all, if we know who they are and where they are, just not let them in to the UK? Anyway, there are many reasons as to why we are in Afghanistan, but, seeing as Bin Ladin is now dead, isn't about time we returned our troops home and stopped any further needless loss of life? Isn;t the job done now? Or have we just caused another 10 years of war and security requirements by creating 10 years of hell for very poor middle eastern people? People like you or I that have a military presecence in their every day lives, they are occupied and live their lives in fear. Bin ladin is dead, isn't the fight over?

So, as the 9/11 anniversary draws ever closer, the conspiracy cover ups continue to be rolled out in the media. If it is insensitive to talk about conspiracies at this time, it is as insensitive to dismiss them out of hand. We owe those people effected, the truth. I wish I knew what it was... Read the article, then read the comments. As you'll notice, there is a large swell of theorists out there, and those numbers grow and grow as you actually look at the evidence not just believe what you are told the evidence could be if it were shown. http://uk.news.yahoo.com/9-11-conspiracy-theories.html

First off, I hope Dan gets well soon, my thoughts are with him and his family. Secondly, whether or not it was a rest night or not, players at this level should not really get too involved in nightclubs, regardless how young, it is a place where many have been hurt or accusations thrown, prison sentences looming (Barnard?). However, a bit of lording it up, googling oneself to girls (if that is the case), is not anywhere near worth a night or 10 in hospital. If he did 'slap' a bouncer', silly boy, but again, serious head injuries as a result is not on. Bouncers are not the police, are not the army and have no right to pulverise someone for 'any' reason. they have the right to remove you from the premises, and have the right to defend themselves, to the same limit as you or I. They are supposedly trained and should not get involved in this sort of behavior. Lastly, I would like to point out that I have had experience of night clubs before that when they feel the pressure because a patron has cause for complaint, the nightclub 'finds' witnesses, usually girls, to say they were attacked, leered at, found something uncomfortable etc. this is why it is imperative to get a reliable witness from inside the club, because it is unlikey CCTV will represent what went on inside. Allegedly.