Oldeuboi

How would you explain our ratio of forwards/backwards/sideways passes and ratio of touches being almost identical in this game to the Burnley game? We actually played more of this game in our third/middle of the pitch than the Burnley game. How does that work if the style of play has been revolutionised so much? Pretty much the only difference (in our play) between that game and this was that we didn't convert chances. Don't score and the whinging points will be identical to any other game we haven't scored in. "Crab football", Boring, blah blah. I think it's just exposed how little so many people actually notice about the finer details of football. On a determined quest to make sure they are the ones who are right, they're happy to believe anything that fits their agenda no matter the evidence and statistics. It simply boils down to the realisation that most people only care about goals. Score goals? We're playing scintillating attacking football at a high tempo. Don't score goals? It's boring football at snail's pace. It's an unbelievably shallow argument and should be exposed as such.

What's baffling to me is that we didn't actually play that differently. We still kept possession when needed, made a few token mistakes on the ball but we actually scored our chances which hasn't happened for a while. Seems there's a lot of unfounded "look I was right see" going on.

Built on our good recent performances and finally took our chances! Not too much different in the way we played otherwise. Dominated.

Post-truth is literally this thread.

Isn't it just simply because all this and more information is out there and easily accessible via the internet? In the past, information was drip fed through paper media, limited TV slots and word of mouth. People didn't know much about finances etc because the information wasn't out there, so therefore it wasn't an issue. Now we can actually go and read Saints' yearly accounts online. I like doing that because I find all the "background" stuff at football clubs fascinating but I'm sure others feel it's too far away from the game. Of course, knowing so much can sort of kill the excitement for games because we're encountering football pretty much every day of the week (this forum is testament to that). I'm definitely less excited during the week for games, but I still get the thrill and excitement on the matchday.

Can't be that bad then?

I would've thought people might have learned not to hyperbolically slate a player during their first few months at the club. Redmond's eclipsed Mané's first (and the last) half-season contribution already.

Redmond and Boufal will both be £30m+ players after a season or two. Then we've got Cedric, VVD, Romeu and Bertrand who have all easily increased in value since we signed them. We've got a very good squad with players who are just underperforming right now. Considering the only differences are Pellè (who people slated relentlessly), Mané (who was still anonymous until March last year) and Wanyama (who got similar stick for being "lazy" and not bothered), it's hard to argue our squad is that much weaker. One of the "Most expensive squads in Europe". We're 16th. Sunderland are 19th and they haven't even had to replace players. http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/manchester-united-second-most-expensive-9608758

We couldn't beat Burnley or Palace away last times we tried either. Such a big SHOCK.

Exactly. I enjoyed our football today and we were well worth a point if not all 3. Not really deserving of the hyperbolic reaction seen here now. Big improvement in performance level since Everton where we switched off after 70. We were the better team for 90 mins today but Burnley are the kind of team that get everyone back on the line when defending their box and somehow manage to grind results out despite playing crap football. Pretty much like Stoke at the Brittania under Pulis. Their keeper made 3 excellent saves. Can see why they are unbelievably hard to beat at Turf Moor but I haven't seen as many teams play as well as we did and lose there.

I've done it twice this season. Once when the people behind me (not usual ST holders) did nothing but slag off Redmond in the Europa League who got a bit funny when I turned round and said "look mate, we get it. Can you just shut up." And against West Brom where some guy next to me (again, not a ST holder) hadn't got the memo that Yoshida is having a good season and shouted nothing but abuse and snide (plus arguably racist) comments despite all the people around me usually discussing how good he's been this year and last. Actually laughed at me when I said I think Yoshida's actually been better than Fonte this season and started chuckling to his friend next to him, looking for them to back up his opinion. It was awkwardly silent after that and kinda of put me off the game (even before we went 2-1 down). It just creates a toxic atmosphere for everyone and spreads fast. I'm usually right at the top of my voice behind the team but people shouting abuse and the inevitable awkwardness that follows kills the atmosphere dead. I wonder if people realise how detrimental it is. I remember a few seasons ago there was a "down the line" guy a few rows back who hated possession football but everyone just found it funny. This just seems much more malicious and as if people are getting a kick out of being able to shout abuse unchallenged.

Get the same **** in Northam 41. Same people from the last few seasons just moan and shout abuse.

I think it simply shows that we aren't as bad as many people think. We've got the foundations in our play, just needs everything to come together. I would be considerably more worried if we were losing games with no possession, shots or other positive stats. I think the shots are slightly skewed this season. I think we do shoot from range more often now than last season because the midfielders are much more involved on the edge of the box and quite often the ball works its way into space near the edge. I also think we had a higher conversion rate last season because we had Pellè/Long (when they were on form) and played a lot of crosses. A header from a good cross is arguably easier to score (with Pellè's height and Long's jump) than a chance at the edge of the box. We don't have that dominating CF type player anymore, meaning it's not as much of a guaranteed way to score as it was at times last season. We scored the highest percentage of headed goals last season if I remembered correctly. This season our crossing has been atrocious (by our full backs) but we've looked at our best playing (or trying to play) intricate football around the box and penning in teams. Unfortunately, that style of play requires confidence and some players have clearly lacked that so far. I think it's why Boufal has been such an exciting player so far.

Statistics show he has improved. Was very good in the Europa league (according to statistics) and has slightly improved in the Premier League this season. Weird how people twist what Les Reed actually said. Didn't he say he believes we have some of the best midfield options? Without factoring form, Romeu, Clasie, JWP, Hojbjerg, Davis and Reed would be extremely good options in the middle of the park for any team. Weird how saying "I believe something" could be called a "lie" though.

Just to nitpick this statement. It's not a bad thing. There's a pretty interesting book called Soccernomics that uses statistics to analyse and understand football a little more. It has almost a whole chapter on how transfer fees are almost irrelevant when it comes to league finishes. It's in fact wage expenditure that has more of a correlation. There are teams that have bought big and done poorly and teams that have bought small and done well. Decent recruitment means teams don't need to spend a bomb, and the chapter actually goes on to say that many of the big fees paid in football are simply done to "appease fans" on panic buys where a better player could be bought for less. A "big signing" ramps up fan expectations and excitement. I can see why our club's transfer dealings aren't that exciting to those types of people. For me, however, I love the idea of unearthing rough diamonds and developing them. Gives me a bit of pride that our club identity is that much different to other clubs our size. Also talks about the idea of "flavour of the week" players being bought for stupid money (so many examples in the Premier League it's utterly laughable), and how stupid teams are to buy a player off the back of a decent world cup/Euro competition at inflated prices. I guess it's the "appeasing fans" bit that some of our fan base really want. Would spending £30m on someone like Benteke really mean that much to you despite making very little sustainable sense?

More because this is a "predictable" season than anything else. All the massive clubs are performing. They're 9 points clear for christ's sake. That didn't happen last season, it was all up in the air. Reed says in his interview that the aim to to consistently be the "best of the rest" and to give Puel time as he's a manager for the future. Why are we so impatient?

That's a very big gulp. You're also missing the Europa League where Van Dijk and Yoshida were both consistently performing. Fewer stats though, as there was obviously less defending against every team parking the bus. Yoshida actually beats van Dijk on the stats you quoted in the Europa League. Of course not entertaining that this means Yoshida was better than van Dijk in Europe. Hard to compare in the Premier League where Fonte played many more games (meaning he's been there for more losses), but Yoshida still just beats him on average with many more Interceptions (per game?) and being pretty much neck and neck on the others. WhoScored (stats based performance ratings) for the Season (in the Prem) have VvD on 7.45, Yoshida on 6.92 and Fonte on 6.81. Then in the Europa, van Dijk is 7.59 and Yoshida is 7.20.

Close, if it were Yoshida. Virgil's quite far out in front, then Yoshida, then Fonte. Fonte's well out in front on Penalties Conceded though.

Is it telling that I was reading this thread assuming it was about this season without thinking any differently? Same people jumping to early hyperbolic conclusions that clearly haven't learned from their misjudgment.

Such an intelligent guy and truly epitomises how good a job our club does of not only getting good players, but also good people (despite a few obvious exceptions).

This shows that he's our second most creative player with passing after Tadic. Stats are sorted by Key Passes per 90 minutes but the other columns are pretty much self-explanatory. However, shows he's much better with the ball and has many more successful dribbles. Fewer dribbles than Boufal, but more consistent with an outcome (of a shot or pass) and much fewer moments of bad control. He's also dispossessed fewer times than either Tadic or Boufal. I'm not arguing that Redmond is better than Boufal. It's clear Boufal is pretty much the top quality finished article (and his average performances show that), but there really isn't that much difference when you look at the actual numbers. It's just weird for me that a player, who is statistically (performance data) decent, rated by our manager and often highlighted by experts as being one of our most dangerous players, is so underrated by Saints fans. Something just feels off about it. He gets more **** from fans near me in the Northam than any of our players I can remember off the top of my head. Did people have much bigger expectations? Was he expected to replace Mané in fan minds? Is it the way he can seem stroppy sometimes on the pitch that turned fans off so quickly? It's just crazy.

Redmond and Boufal are really starting to build a partnership with lots of good link up play. Would be best to start both. Easily our most dangerous and creative players.

Good play. Keep for ball for a while and take the sting out of it. Looks like we're winning most 2nd balls too. Good first half after a poor start.

That linkup between Boufal and Redmond again proving dangerous. More of that please.

Wow. Thierry Henry talking about how much he enjoys watching us play. Didn't expect that considering we play the most boring football in the league, apparently.