sadoldgit

I find it hard to understand how anyone could find the idea of moving over 2 million people or more from their homeland funny but we have a poster that does. Also how hard is it to understand that if you call out the actions of both Hamas and the Israeli government, call for a ceasefire and the need to work towards a peaceful settlement that will lead to compromises from both sides and a two state solution that provides security for both the Israelis and Palestinians is not taking sides? Fortunately the majority of posters on this thread understand what is being said and don’t feel the need to try inject opinions of others which don’t actually exist. As for the rest of you, you know who you are.

Just read elsewhere that Israel is trying to bribe Egypt to take the Gaza Palestinians into the Sinai by paying off a huge international debt? If true you can just imagine the outage if it was suggested that Israelis should leave their homes and start again in the Sinai desert! A great deal of the seed cause of this conflict comes from the forced displacement of both current Israelis and Palestinians. Just unbelievable. What next, clear out the remaining Palestinians from the West Bank?

The few people who go to these marches with extreme views are shameful. But they are only a few amongst tens of thousands. You seem to have a great deal of sympathy for the Jewish population of this country who get caught up in the backlash from this conflict but zero sympathy for Muslims in the same position. I recall on another thread when I said that it was unfair that normal, peaceful Muslims were getting flak because of the terrorist activities your response was that they are all complicit because they weren’t going to the police with information about the attacks! Do you think that ISIS, Hamas etc have some huge WhatsApp group with every Muslim informing them of their activities? These are innocent people caught up in a dreadful situation, just like it is for the Jewish population in the UK. As for your point about the Palestinians voting in Hamas, you really do need to educate yourself. There hasn’t been an election in Gaza since 2006 and given the demographics hundreds of thousands of the inhabitants of Gaza now would have been below voting age then. I see that you used a laughing emoji on my post that stated that some people here believe that an innocent Jewish life is worth more than an innocent Muslim life. One of those people would be you. You are becoming this threads version of Ben-Gvir.

We have seen it in Parliament, in the media, here, everywhere. No one gives a damn about Islamophobes but get labelled as an antisemite and you are in trouble, you can even lose your livelihood over it. An ex PM made Islamophobic remarks and it was laughed off by many. We live in a strange world where you can condemn the murderous acts of a bunch or terrorists and also those carried out as revenge and still get labelled as an antisemite. I have been following this on other forums too and it is evident that there are people out there who think that the lives of innocent Jewish people are worth more than the lives of innocent Muslims. No doubt by writing these words those who believe this will immediately label the words as antisemitic too. For those who the words of Suella Braverman are aimed at, your argument really doesn’t stand up unless your hatred of Muslims is so great you can’t see the wood for the trees.

Exactly. But as said, the Israelis don’t care what he, Sunak, the EU or anybody says, they will do exactly what they want to do as they have done for years with impunity. They have the backing of the most powerful nation on earth and they ride roughshod over international rules and conventions. The international community has allowed this situation to fester and has allowed it to get out of hand, but that is the basic problem, too many people are scared of calling Israeli actions out when they go too far. Time and again over the last few weeks people who have called out the Hamas attack as abhorrent have also been accused of siding against Israel because they have condemned the mass killing of Palestinian civilians. It has been stated several times, but all Israel are doing at the moment is stoking up the conflict for future generations and guaranteeing more events like 7/10 down the line. We don’t tolerate murderous attacks by extremist groups, nor should we. But state terrorism is no different.

It hasn’t died a death. The New York Times reported last week that the video the Israelis used to show that it was a misfiring rocket from Hamas was well away from the site of the hospital. There seems no absolute proof what caused it yet so that is probably why the story is on the back burner. That and the fact that thousands of innocent people have died in air strikes and ground offensives since so it is now just one of many incidents of innocent people being killed. I appreciate that you dislike Muslims intensely, but perhaps don’t be so eager to try and play down the multiple killings every day?

The BBC have reported that the Israelis have cut off a road leading to south Gaza from the north with tanks and armoured vehicles. A car was making a three point turn to go back and it was fired on by a tank, killing the family inside.

To be fair I don’t think there are many partisan posters on this thread. Most of us understand that the issues are complex, that the issues have been boiling over for decades and that there are no quick fixes. I think that we also understand that there have to be huge compromises made on both sides for this ever to be resolved. This is why politicians need to stop taking sides and look at bringing pressure on all those who can make a difference to work towards firstly a meaningful ceasefire and then towards ways of finding a peaceful solution that works for all. This has nothing to do with antisemitism or being pro Hamas, but everything to do with recognising that both sides have a right to exist in peace wherever final boundary lines are drawn. Sadly it seems almost impossible at the moment to take a moderate, centrist position without being labelled a supporter of one side or the other. Good to see more wise, rational voices pointing out the obvious though. Also it is worth pointing out that if you listen to moderate Muslims, the chant “from the river to the sea” is all about ending the oppression of the Palestinians and has nothing to do with wiping Israel off of the map. I think even us “simpletons” understand that it has been hijacked by Hamas and that those chanting it on London rallies are using it in a completely different context.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/200-held-as-jewish-group-shuts-nycs-grand-central-calling-for-gaza-ceasefire/amp/ Appaling that we abstained in the UN vote for a humanitarian ceasefire. At least these people have the balls and the decency to stand up against the butchery of innocents.

Boris Johnson is to have his own show on GB News and will be covering next years elections on it. What a shock 🙄

You can really be a deeply unpleasant individual at times. Why would anyone revel in what has been going on over the last 3 weeks? What is sanctimonious about calling out the killing of innocent people (whichever side of the divide they are from)? What is sanctimonious about the wanting of a ceasefire and more work to be done to find a long lasting peaceful solution to this interminable conflict? If it makes you feel better to make silly jokes about massacres, knock yourself out. But I’d rather be sanctimonious than someone who thinks it is appropriate to make light of what is turning into genocide. Netanyahu has now given his forces permission to use live rounds against Israelis who protest against his policies. Feel free to make jokes about belt buckles when the Israelis start killing their own.

Perhaps you and Whelk should work through your belt buckle fetishes too? 😉 Still, if you can’t have a good old chuckle on a thread about the daily killing of innocent people, what is the world coming to buddy, eh?

Ah, bless. And there was me thinking that you didn’t have a sense of humour. Good to see that you can still laugh at yourself even when you lose the argument.

Apparently the Qur’an says nothing about having 72 virgins if you martyr yourself. There is a vague reference to something like that in some Hadiths but I think it is some b/s that we have been fed. As said before, it has more to do with them being prepared to die for a cause, much like the Japanese in WW2. The Met said there was a spike in recorded hate crimes after 7/10. In 2022 there were 15 recorded antisemitic offences between 1st and 18th October. In 2023 they recorded 218. For Islamophobic offences for the same period it was 42 in 2022 and 103 in 2023. This article by Israeli historian Raz Segal will probably ruffle a few feathers, but we really need to allow this stuff to be discussed if we agree with it or not. https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/24/israel-gaza-palestinians-holocaust

This all day long. Muslim lives are no more expendable than Jewish lives. The idea that somehow these thousands of people’s lives are the price worth paying to pay Hamas back for their own murderous actions is beyond inhuman. And the UN are exactly right to say that this hasn’t happened in a vacuum. The Hamas attack was a result of 7 decades of conflict. They didn’t just wake up two weeks ago and decide to do it on a whim. For an Israeli official to call for the resignation of the UN Secretary General for stating the obvious is just another example of this idea that somehow the actions of the Israeli government are beyond reproach. I have pinched this brilliant quote from another forum. ”Israel is the the West’s overindulged, badly behaved toddler who has never been told ‘no’ , who has now grown up and the people of Israel and Gaza are paying the price of our negligence”.

Of course arial bombing wasn’t an issue in 1907. There were various attempts to bring in specific legislation over the years, especially in 1946, but for various reasons they failed or were not conclusive enough. It was not until Protocol 1 was brought in in December 1978 that it we finally had this legislation in place. As for hypochondriac he has previous for posting against normal, peaceful Muslims and seems to have no problem with genocide being visited upon the Palestinians.

There was a harrowing report on the Gaza situation on BBC, Panorama, last night. They spoke to some of the loved ones of the victims from the attacks from both sides and it was heartbreaking, especially the last one where you thought the whole family would survive after two night of bombing. You have to have a heart made of stone to care about the innocent victims of the Hamas attacks but be relatively unconcerned about the disproportionately growing loss of life of innocent women and children from the air attacks by Israel. Why is that? Are the lives of innocent Muslim women and children somehow worth less? You are right. The policy is hurt us and we will hurt you more. It always has been. It hasn’t worked before and it will not work again. The (carpet) bombing of civilians was not illegal under international law back then but it is now. I made the mistake of reading a book about the bombing of Dresden a few years ago. It created a huge firestorm killing some 25,000 people and the description of the destruction was beyond horrific. As much as the Blitz and the bombing of Coventry etc. offers some kind of mitigation, reading about the deliberate mass destruction of innocent people and their homes, who ever they are, leaves a sour taste in the mouth, much like the shelling of civilians now.

Napoleon once called us a nation of shopkeepers. According to the daily news reports it seems that we have now become a nation of shoplifters. 😩

No doubt they will be producing the evidence soon then which refutes the forensic information that shows that the projectile that caused the explosion in the car park was launched from the NE and not the SW as originally claimed. I notice that Sunak is still using the word “likely”. Doesn’t sound that firm does it given that they have had several days now to investigate. It would be good to have something conclusive though, I’m sure you will agree. Given the thousands of innocent men, women and children that have been killed by Israeli air strikes so far though this particular incident is becoming less relevant by the day.

I’m not sure what you main issue is here. Is it that they haven’t “battered” people peacefully protesting in support of innocent Muslims? Given that this Government proposes to let convicted criminals to leave prison before the end of their sentences, would you be happy with their places taken by protesters? Or are you just happy for them to be “battered”? I appreciate that you are just as unhappy about the lack of “battering” as the Home Secretary, but perhaps, given the amount of criticism the Met have received for previous heavy handedness at protests, they decided to use some common sense this time?

This one goes into more detail. Is this what you were talking about? https://www.channel4.com/news/human-rights-investigators-raise-new-questions-on-gaza-hospital-explosion

Just been looking at some forensic reports about the projectile that struck the hospital car par last week. Despite Israeli claims that it was travelling from the SW direction it seems it actually came from the NE. Also the Israeli’s presented a recorded conversation from two alleged Hamas personnel claiming that one of their missiles had misfired. This recording appears to have been doctored, according to an independent forensic research outfit.

Sorry but I don’t see what your response has to do what I wrote. I’ll try again with an example. Last week the pro Palestinian March in London was joined by a number of Jewish people (I have no idea of their country of origin but that isn’t important here). They were very critical of Netanyahu’s latest moves which are harshly effecting innocent Palestinians. According to Duckhunter, if you criticise a Jew, that is anti-Semitism. They were critical of Netanyahu, who is Jewish. Does that make them anti-Semites? A simply yes or no will suffice. The basic issue here is censorship. You should be able to reasonably criticise, question and hold to account anybody or anything, especially governments, without the fear of being shut down as a hater, unless of course you are happy living in an Orwellian world. If you adhere to the internationally agreed rules you should have nothing to fear on the world stage concerning your own conduct. Terrorists do not which leaves them open to condemnation. When States do not either, they are in no position to cry foul if they are also condemned for their actions. Netanyahu and his government are currently facing a great deal of criticism for their response to the recent Hamas attacks and the handling of the Palestinian issues in general, not just from outside of Israel but also from within. That does not make the people making these criticisms anti-Semites. This really shouldn’t even be an issue but it does demonstrate perfectly how this particular card has been played given that it is even being discussed at length on a football forum.

No I am not struggling. You know exactly what point I am making. What would I call you? Maybe a Mossad Propaganda bot? Odd that you can’t spell Netanyahu’s name correctly. No, I am not that dopey. Once again you have either deliberately ignored my point or you haven’t understood it. Just for avoidance of doubt, is it now anti-Semitic to refer to Jewish people as Jews now? On a brighter note, two of the hostages taken by Hamas have been released.

Wonderful news! What was even better is that many Tory voters who didn’t feel that they could vote for anyone else decided to stay at home. They can do the nation a great service in staying at home for the general election too. A Tory voter on the radio this morning said that he didn’t vote this time because Sunak is too far to the left of centre!!! Somehow he has completely missed how far to the right the rest of the cabinet are. He then went on to say that he could never vote Labour and would probably vote for the Reform Party next time.