sadoldgit

Strange result given on the one hand you have a choice of a failed, discredited party and on the other cleaner air for your children. Just a few hundred votes in it but selfishness still rules. Voters it seems would rather drive around polluting their air than punish the government for incompetence and ruining the country. ULEZ is clearly a contentious issue but perhaps the government should do what they have done in Birmingham and provide more help in car scrapage and replacement? We should also remember that ULEZ was originally dreamed up by Boris Johnson as mayor.

To be fair, you did ask him the question. I am guessing you are buddies with Weston as well as Turkish? Makes sense.

This stuff ought to be on the Israel page and I posted this there earlier in the discussion, but in case you missed it here it is again. It puts the case about the use of the anti-semitism label as a weapon better than I do. https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/opinions/2023/6/22/weaponisation-of-anti-semitism-is-bad-for-palestinians-and-jews Back on topic, here’s hoping for a right royal pasting for the Tories in the by elections today. It would seem that the GE is Starmer’s to lose right now. His situation has been likened to carrying a Ming vase across an ice rink in the run up. You can see he is doing all he can to appeal to the floating voters and the disaffected Tory voters to the extent that there is currently little clear water between the two parties policy wise other than they f*cked it up, now it’s our turn. It will be interesting to see the party manifestos when they are published as I doubt if there will be little in Labour’s that will frighten the horses. As Starmer says himself, he is laser focused on winning the election and, to that end, seems more concerned on gaining the trust of people who haven’t voted Labour for a while, probably at the expense of some old, hardened dyed in the wool Labour voters. The issue over child care is a case in point. It is clearly something you would expect Labour to reverse immediately but in order to show voters that there will be fiscal responsibility under Labour, Starmer has taken a very unpopular decision not to reverse the policy for a time. In doing so he has weighed up the unpopularity that it will cause amongst his base support against new votes from elsewhere. On this one I think he is wrong. There are certain things you expect from a Labour government and helping children out of poverty is one of them. It just helps the argument that Starmer is a Tory in Labour clothing, which I don't believe that he is. As for Farage, what a lot of fuss about nothing. Businesses are entitled to pick and choose who they do business with. Coutts is an apex business and the only surprising thing is that they did business with Farage at all given his reputation. I can only imagine they took him on before he was internationally recognised as a scumbag. NatWest is where he belongs, with the rest of us plebs 😉

You said it. Perception. Diane Abbot’s perception is that black people experience racism and white people don’t. Perception doesn’t make things real, it is just an opinion based on a particular filter.You would expect Jewish people to feel aggrieved if members of a political party were sympathetic towards the Palestinians wouldn’t you? As I have said many times, it doesn’t make those people anti-Semitic. You can throw the accusation about as much as you like but it only makes it true in your head. If you can’t see the difference between the prejudice shown against Jewish people under the Nazis in the 1930s and 40s and people supporting Palestinians now then there is no point in you responding to me or me you. I will say it one more time. It is perfectly possible to support the Palestinian cause without hating Jewish people and by calling those who do anti-Semitic is disingenuous and only serves to deflect, which is why it happens.

I brought in antisemitism because, invariably, if you support the Palestinians you are labelled as such. I don’t believe that is fair or reasonable and only serves to shut down reasonable debate. My point about the same people wading into the same type of threads is valid as far as I can see. It may not be an issue for you, but when you are at the end of pile ins from the same posters time and again no matter what the subject, or when you see the same posters derailing threads on these types of subjects, it is worth pointing it out. I should add, as you a relative newcomer to this forum, the same people have been doing the same thing for years.

It has been quite amusing watching the time an effort a certain poster has put in today to try and play down the effects of the current heatwave in Europe. I guess he has even more time to spend online now that his boss is on holiday! Anyway, it is good to know that we need not worry about the mortality rate due to the heat as three people he knows out there are fine and dandy. In fact we can add another two people to the list as friends of ours are currently on holiday on the Italian island of Ischia and have posted on FB today so are still alive. Yay! Not much solace for those 72,000 who died due to the European heatwave in 2003 or those who will perish or become seriously ill this year. Despite what GB News and the likes of Donald Trump would have us believe, excessive climate heat can have a devastating effect on the human body and it kills more people each year than the cold. Staggering really to see that some people still play down the effects we (mankind) have had on speeding up climate change over the last couple of hundred years given the amount of evidence that is out there. Not surprising though that it is the same people who also get themselves into a lather about football players taking the knee, LBGT issues, migrants, Muslims, Jeremy Corbyn or indeed anything supported by anyone slightly left of centre. Funny that. 🤔

The reason I pigeon hole certain people into a gang against me is because virtually every time I post the same people respond, some of them almost immediately. Not surprisingly, they all pretty much have the same agenda. As regards criticising the Israeli government’s policy towards the Palestinians, why is that anti-Semitic? As I keep saying, it is entirely possible to strongly disagree with a nation’s foreign policy without hating the people of that country. As you say, members of the Labour Party have been labelled as anti-Semitic because they support the Palestinians. It is a bit of a stretch to label everyone who supports the plight of the Palestinians living within the state of Israel with the same mindset as a rabid Nazi. Perhaps look further into the reasons why 87% of Jewish people in the UK support that view. They are hardly likely to support the Palestinian position are they? We need to move past this method of shutting down opposition towards what is happening on the West Bank. Instead of labelling people as anti- Semitic for supporting the Palestinians living within the boarders of Israel, perhaps we should refer to them as humanitarians? And before people start kicking off about the Arab terror groups, I don’t support their methods either.

You can only drive one at a time, so what’s your point? If you live in London and have children, why wouldn’t you support ULEZ?

So the cleaner air in London now makes no difference to children’s health?

Did I actually say that? I believe I said that if you have suffered persecution yourself, it doesn’t make it ok to persecute others. You seem to be straying into Weston territory here who seems to think that quoting a fictitious character is akin to actually being him. You can do better 😉

True, and it spoils a good walk. Still, it makes a change from him being paid for trolling on a social media forum all day. 😉

I assume that you are referring to me? If so, have you watched the excellent programme “Succession”? The lead character, Logan Roy, based very much on Rupert Murdoch, dismisses his overly entitled and completely deluded children as “not serious people”. There are a small group of posters here who usually follow each other round and jump all over posters who dare to call out far right policies and agendas. Whether they are racists or not, who knows, but they tend to get very agitated if you call out anything remotely connected with far right thinking. They are not what you could call “serious people”. Double standards? I am not sure what you mean by that. Where is a double standard in calling out Patel and Braverman for their appalling policies on migrants and asylum seekers? Where is the double standard in calling out those who criticise footballers who decided to do something to highlight racism in football? Where is the double standard in calling out the likes of Johnson and Farage for their lies and misinformation during the Brexit campaign? Where is the double standard in calling out people who hold views that are based on self interest and benefit a few rather than our society as a whole? It is pointless bothering with this small group of people because they have no interest in having a serious discussion, they are mostly just on the wind up. They don’t read what you post and respond to what they think that you have posted according to their filters. One of them has already been kicked off of another forum for disruption and another has had two different identities here already, he must be due another one soon. If you constantly post anything vaguely left of centre on a regular basis you can guarantee that the same names will respond, sometimes within seconds of you posting. Try mentioning the likes of Katie Hopkins, Tommy Robinson, Lawrence Fox or any other far right mouthpiece and it is like throwing chum into a tank filled with sharks. When you call them out for supporting the far right, they accuse you of calling them racist (if the cap fits…). In the same way, if you call out the Israeli foreign policy against the Palestinians on the West Bank they label you anti-Semitic. As I say, they are not “serious people”. “It is high way or no way”. What does that even mean? Having read some of your other posts, I get the feeling that you are right at home with this small group of people. For the record, of course people are entitled to hold far right views just as people are entitled to challenge them. Just don’t pretend that you (they) don’t hold those views. Enjoy the rest of your Sunday.

Ok Kraken, I’ll bite. What have I made up? What personal abuse have I thrown at you? Calling you Batman? I recall you saying that you had met me (which is a lie) and added a personal abuse yourself so you are hardly in a position to take the moral high ground.

I know you get all MLG about these things, but I assume when talking about Israeli policies or Jewish policies that they are the same thing. Arabs living within the state of Israel have hardly any input into political decisions and the Israeli government is voted for by its people, who are predominately Jewish. Surely it is a given that Israeli policies are effectively Jewish policies (with the understanding that not every Jew is in favour of every policy just as with Brexit, it is UK policy and affects millions but is not supported by all). As I have said before, we talk about WW2 as being at war with Germany not Hilter’s Nazi Party but we accept that not all Germans supported the war. Russia have invaded Ukraine not Putin but we accept that not all Russians support the war. When Argentina invaded the Falkland Isles it was perfectly acceptable to criticise the invasion without being labelled as hating all South Americans. We use these generalisations all the time. Sadly some on here chose to misinterpret those as antisemitism when talking about issues in the Middle East. Your point about the Jewish people is interesting but does not give a definitive answer as to whether they are actually a race or not and even many of their own faith cannot decide. Clearly there are people of the same faith who are, genetically, of a different “race”, so that raises questions if you are looking for a clear definition. As I said before, Google it and you will find many different views. The issue, I believe, grew from whether Jewish people could be subjected to “racism” if they were not actually a “race”. The same has been said about Muslims. As we know, not all Muslims are Arabic. The term racist seems to be the issue here and it all comes down to semantics. It has more clout than “something phobic”. If you label someone a racists it has more punch than, say, Islamophobic, as you are directing it at someone’s genetic make up rather than their religious belief (or sexual orientation). Conversely, Jewish people have done a better job with the label “antisemitic” as that, arguably, now carries more of a pejorative punch than “racist”. The point of all this rambling is that I think the problem with Abbot’s last letter is that she is trying to make out that one kind of discrimination is worse than another. My argument is that discrimination is discrimination no matter what other label you put on it. Racism, antisemitism, Islamophobia, homophobia etc. are all just types of discrimination and are, as I see it, equally as unacceptable (read this twice Weston). Fortunately now we have stopped going through periods where we either burnt Catholics or Protestants at the stake for heresy, but their persecution came from exactly the same place as the persecution of black people in the southern states of America or the persecution of the Jews, Slavs, homosexuals etc in some European countries in the mid 20th century or the ethnic cleansing of the more recent Balkan war. To my mind, Abbot’s mistake was not one of antisemitic prose on this occasion, but to try and differentiate between prejudice aimed at black people and prejudice aimed at white people and that one was fundamentally different because it was based a skin colour (race). Clearly it isn’t, but she wasn’t saying that white people do not face discrimination too. If you are that hung up on our use of language, perhaps you should request that the thread entitled “Israel” clarifies whether it covers the actual landmass and all those living within it, or the current actions of the elected Jewish government? Ramble over 😉

He is a strange chap. He makes things up and them comments on them as if they are factual. Not once have I suggested that they be closed down (but that will not prevent him from continue to claim that I have). GB News were granted a broadcasting licence that contains certain conditions. They have found to have breached those conditions on 3 occasions and a further 2 investigations are ongoing. It is down to Ofcom to decided what sanctions should be applied, if any, and they clearly have a job to do to ensure that GB News, like every other broadcaster, keep to their licensing conditions and adhere to what they have signed up to. There are a number of concerns over the way that they employ the use of sitting MP’s at the moment. I am sure it won’t bother Weston, but employing Tory MPs to interview other Tory MPs would seem to fly in the face of propriety and impartiality to most. You can imagine the amount of raised blood pressure amongst Gammons if the BBC allowed Labour MPs to interview Starmer and other shadow ministers on a regular basis!

What do Palestinians living within the state of Israel identify as? Israeli’s? It is a genuine question because I really don’t know and it seems that if you assume that when you are talking about Israel as a state and their policies that you are talking about Jewish policies. As for Judaism, it is clearly a religion but there is also a debate about whether Jews are a “race” too. Duckie seems to have had his cage rattled by the fact that I spent some time one day looking into the question. Guess what, it seems there is no definitive answer. There are plenty of papers published online arguing that they are and plenty arguing that they are not. The reason I mentioned the American High Court judge is that one of them made a ruling that they were. It would appear that the issue is not clear cut. My opinions on this subject are quite simple. I have no problem at all with the religion or Jewish people. I have a problem with the way their Government are handling the issues with the Palestinians. I think that there are an awful lot of people who feel the same. To label us all as antisemitic is disingenuous and ridiculous. As I have pointed out before, I think people can see the difference between hating Putin and his regime but not hating the Russian people but as soon as you criticise the Israeli governments actions against the Palestinians you are labelled antisemitic!

Do we know how many people have actually been jailed for non payment? I haven’t seen it but Murdoch has what o assume is a TV version of The Sun called Talk Tv now. Can’t have too many right wing agenda driven media platforms eh? At least we know where the money is coming from in the public funded BBC, but I guess people like Batman prefer their news outlets to be funded by people like Murdoch and other far right agenda driven types.

I saw a clip recently where a couple of GBNews presenters were grilling a young guy who was a climate change activist who was making a claim that excessive heat in the weather system kills. This was on Twitter and the pile on underneath from, I presume, GBNews watcher types, were all making fun of the claim, saying that the cold kills but heat doesn’t.One said he had just come back from holiday in the 40 degree heat and hadn’t died etc. Fact is that excessive heat is the biggest killer of humans amongst natural phenomenon and it is clear that man’s activities since the Industrial Revolution have rapidly affected changes in our weather systems, but you won’t hear that from GBNews because it doesn’t suit their agenda and it’s not what their target audience want to hear. It gives a platform to far right nut jobs and Gammons and the sooner Ofcom does something about it the better. It is not a news station, it is a propaganda outlet for the far right.

So “Jews” are not Israelis? Where did I compare the Holocaust to the bullying of gingers? You really are quite stupid. I think we have finally gotten to the bottom of why you write so much nonsense. You have been schooled in the use of drugs by Keith Richards. If you back back and read what Diane Abbot said she made absolutely NO reference to the Holocaust. Her argument was that only black people experience racism whereas (some) white people experience a different type of prejudice but not racism. She name checked four different groups of white people who experience prejudice. How you have turned this into what you have said above can only been down to the extensive use of illegal substances and compulsive. obsessive masturbation over pictures of Margaret Thatcher clutching her handbag. As for whether Jewishness is a religion or a race, I am surprised that an American High Cour judge had to rule on the question. All we had to do was to ask you.

You’ve taken your time. You will lose your post as Noncewatch General if you aren’t careful Batman. I’m very disappointed that you haven’t already posted the picture of HE’s arse cheeks. You’re standards are definitely slipping.

Given that one main name is all over social media I am surprised that our resident Twitter surfer and Nonce Finder General has not outed him yet.

It’s a sad state of affairs when you have to spell something out like this to a grown man with children of his own. I wonder if he would have said the same about the Kinder-transport children down at his local ale house if he had been around in the late 30’s?

He votes for the likes of the “Iron Lady”, Johnson, Farage and UKIP so don’t expect him to have a shred of compassion for frightened unaccompanied children pitching up in a foreign land. It’s the likes of Duckhunter that Patel and Braverman speak to because they know that is what he likes to hear. More red meat for the nation’s knuckle draggers.

I’m not sure that there is much moral high ground in war and Russia have used cluster bombs against Ukraine already. If you are going to get blown up does it really matter what does it unless it is a nuke? That seems to be where the line is drawn.

No mention of this yet. I will probably be labelled as anti semitic again but at least that puts me in the same position as the UN Secretary General. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/06/un-israel-excessive-force-attack-palestine-jenin#:~:text=The UN secretary general%2C António,disrupted water and electricity networks.