sadoldgit

And we now have Sunak taking secret meetings with Cummings with a view to him running Sunak’s election campaign from the shadows. What was that about integrity and openness? Another day, another nail in the coffin of credible government in the UK.

Odd that the same people who say that they don’t give a monkeys about Sunak still find the time to defend him 🤔 This is a lot of fuss about nothing. Martin has one job and that is to manage SFC. His focus is to win football matches, not to suck up to a PM who is desperately trying to appear to be a man of the people despite all evidence to the contrary.

Sunak was apparently there as a fan and not in an official capacity. How many fans expect special treatment and a trip to the dressing room to meet the manager and players? Martin was asked a question and answered it honestly (which is not something you could say for Sunak and his colleagues). His job is to manage Southampton Football Club, not get involved in a PR sideshow for the man who managed to increase the Covid death toll with his moronic Eat Out To Help Out policy. I’m sure that GM would have no problem with this had it been Jeremy Corbyn! On a side note, it is a shame Sunak doesn’t support West Ham. We could have plenty of fun over his inability to use a hammer. Talking of respect, how much respect did Sunak show this country when he “lost” all of those WhatsApp messages during the Covid pandemic?

Spoken like a true Trump supporter.

I couldn’t agree more hypo. You lot do also deserve a Merry Christmas! 🥳

If only the Israelis had not occupied Palestinian territory in the West Bank. If only both sides have not been chipping away at each other for 70 years. By pretending that this is just a result of one attack in October is what I expect of some of the some of the less bright posters. As I said way back on this thread (for which I was labelled an antisemite) being the victims of genocide in the past does not give you the right to do the same to others. If only it was as simple as you try and pretend it is. Fortunately more and more people are seeing that the response has gone way beyond anything that could be described as proportionate and Netanyahu and his cronies are no better than Hamas.

There has been a lot of discussion about whether the actions of the IDF constitutes genocide in Gaza. Whether it technically is or isn’t genocide, there can be no dispute about the ethnic cleansing/domicide description. Ben Wallace’s description of this being a “killing rage” also nails it. This is not and has never been an operation just to take out Hamas. It is a revenge attack designed to flatten Gaza and to kill and displace as many Palestinians as possible.

Easy to mistake them for Hamas terrorists through a snipers telescopic sight I guess? https://www.osvnews.com/2023/12/16/israeli-sniper-kills-two-christians-in-gaza-latin-patriarchate-says/amp/ And we all know how difficult it is to drive a bulldozer without running over people. https://maktoobmedia.com/world/israel-bulldozes-buries-alive-dozens-at-gaza-hospital/

Wrong twice? The IDF are killing their own people and have done since 7th October. How is that in any way shape or form taking care in who they target? It gets worse, the hostages were carrying white flags when they were shot, but the IDF still have the moral high ground eh?

As I said before, the hostages have more to fear from the IDF than they do from Hamas. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-armed-forces-killed-3-hostages-by-mistake-spokesperson-2023-12-15/

Big reveal? Am I missing something here? I stopped reading posts from the usual suspects on this thread a while back so if they are expecting a response to something they have a long wait ahead. Anyway, this is aimed at the non usual suspects and posters who don’t hate Muslims - anyone seen any proof that the tunnels under the Al Shifa hospital housed the Hamas command centre in Gaza yet? I saw some footage taken in the tunnels yesterday and there was nothing there apart from electric cables. No sign of recent activity. Nothing. https://theintercept.com/2023/11/21/al-shifa-hospital-hamas-israel/

Starmer’s best PMQs by far today. Not only did he rip Sunak a new one, he showed him up to be the weak, incompetent, petulant man he is. He also cracked some funny jokes and showed some charisma (for those who critise him for being dull). Sunak sounds more and more like Rik from The Young Ones. The Tories are toast with him leading the next GE campaign and have no one of any calibre to replace him. As much as it is depressing that we still have to wait for the GE, it will be fun watching them implode in the meantime.

I didn’t “scour the internet” for the article. It was recommended to me. The purpose of posting the article was not to make a specific post about Netanyahu, although it was relevant given where he is now and what is happening at the moment. The Netanyahu reference is a very small part of the article (his quote “we’ve got to get the Palestinians out of the West Bank for good”)but then you would know that if you had bothered to read it. I posted the article because although it was written some time ago, it was written by someone who supported Israel and explained, very well, how things have changed there. It is very relevant to what is happening now. I know that you are desperate to nit pick every post I make but maybe, for a change, why don’t you engage your brain and try and join a grown up conversation?

It is a white, far right, extreme nationalist movement that operate through social media. One of our regular posters here used to use one of their memes, Pepe The Frog, as an avatar until he was outed.

This is a long and old article about this situation, but as relevant today as when it was written. It shows the mind set of a younger Netanyahu, which doesn’t bode well for the current situation, and shines a light on where we are now from someone with a far greater knowledge of it than any of us here has. It will probably upset those who can’t read any criticism of the Israeli government without throwing accusations of antisemitism around, but it would be good for them to read a well balanced view of what has happened to Israeli government attitudes over the years and why we are where we are. https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/may/09/israel-middle-east-max-hastings

Me too. He should have been given a life sentence. Apparently as part of his parole conditions he has to have anger management counselling. Presumable that is to try and help prevent him emptying a gun through a locked door into his next girlfriend.

I have just had the pleasure (?) of watching a programme about Nigel Farage which filled in a few gaps in my knowledge about him. Somehow I had missed his past support for Hitler’s policies and quite blatant antisemitism and quote that Hitler was right about gassing the Jews. Surely this isn’t the same Nigel Farage who our resident antisemite hunter Lord Duckhunter defends loyally and supports politically? No, it can’t possibly be can it? Perhaps it is ok because he doesn’t actually criticise them, he just endorses their genocide? Note to self, instead of calling out Netanyahu’s inhuman policy of the constant. bombing and shooting of civilians in Gaza and the West Bank, I should instead have said that he and his cronies should be gassed. That would pass the Duckhunter litmus test on antisemitism given who he so rampantly supports. Or maybe he just gives Nigel a free pass because of his hatred for migrants and the EU?

According to a recent poll as published in The Times, people with a lower cognitive ability were more likely to vote for Brexit. You only need to read this thread to come to that conclusion. 😂 Before I get lynched again for no reason, I did try and post a link to the article but it is behind a paywall so this will have to do (yes, I know it comes at it from a different angle). https://neurosciencenews.com/cognitive-skills-brexit-25246/

I apologise profusely for using the word “many” in an earlier post, especially to the Islamophobes on the forum. Apparently I should have said that there were “multiple instances” instead. My bad. https://new.thecradle.co/articles-id/13145

Seriously egg? I honestly thought that there was some hope for you but you have slipped back into usual suspect mode. What a shame. Ok, you are like a dog with a bone so here we go for the last time. I did not refer to that particular article or deliberately misquote it. Why would I when it is very clear it used a different word and knowing that the usual suspects go over everything with a fine tooth comb trying to find comebacks? If you look back at my previous posts you will see that I said looked at a number of different reports. I found The Cradle article on another forum along with some other quoted articles and posts copied from Twitter. They were all fairly vague but the eye witness reports gave the impression that that we weren’t just talking about a few casualties. I used The Cradle article in my post because I knew certain posters would call me a liar and that not only supported the claim but it also detailed other deliberate strikes against civilian hostages taken by Hamas. It wasn’t my only source material. Understand? I didn’t go out of my way to do anything and you will not find one word of any of my posts where I “minimise” what happened on that day. You are just doing what the others do, twisting something to suit your argument. Not once have I minimised any terrorist attack. I have always posted against any extremist activities. I don’t condone the actions of Hamas but if you want to interpret what I have said that way, then that is down to you. If you can be bothered, go back and read what I have said. If Hamas had continued their murderous attacks on civilians every day since 7th October I would be posting against that too, but they haven’t. I am posting against the claims that the IDF, at the behest of the Israeli government are using proportionate force since 7th October and that this isn’t defence, it is revenge. That has absolutely nothing to do with any attempt to play down what happened on 7th October, unless you are so polarised in your support for Zionist ideology and hatred for Muslims that you can’t see the wood for the trees. Even if Hamas had only killed 50 civilians that day it would have been a horrendous attack. Why do you have to use semantics (can you give me a figure difference between “some” “many” “ and “a number” when no one has a clue what the number is nor are we likely ever to know so we are talking in abstracts anyway? I know why, because you are trying to pretend that I had another (and different) motive. This thread is going the way of so many others which is a shame as, for a while, it was half decent. For that reason l’ll leave you to it as the usual suspects can smell blood and it will only get worse. Believe what you want, but this is my take on things - There is barely a fag paper between the butchery carried out by Hamas on 7th October and the consistent butchery that has been carried out by the IDF pretty much every day since. Peace will only ever be achieved when both sides of the conflict accept the two state solution, Israel withdraws from the occupied territories and all of the Arab nations accept that Israel has the right to exist in peace alongside the other nations in the ME. Strict boundaries need to be agreed by all sides, adhered to and policed by a peace keeping force from the UN. Immediate and heavy sanctions need to be implemented on any side breaking the peace accord with no veto allowed through the UN’s security council. I don’t see anything controversial or that can be twisted to show antisemitism, but I am sure it will happen anyway. Keep working on it egg. I’m sure you will get there eventually, despite this recent set back 😉 👋

That article said “some”. There are other articles which use different words from various eye witnesses which made it sound more than a few. I have already explained my use of the word “many”. It is not rocket science to deduce that it you fire shells and spray a large crowd of people with machine gun fire from a helicopter, there are going to be lots of casualties. The majority of the crowd were civilians. As they say in the US, you do the math. If you honestly think that, by some miracle, the indiscriminate firing at a crowd of people didn’t hit more than a few civilians and managed just to pick out terrorists, fair enough. Chose your own word and we will use that if that makes you happy.Given that the IDF showed no restraint elsewhere that day and deliberately fired on civilians as well as terrorists, I don’t see why you are making such a big deal over a word that no one can quantify anyway. Just so that I know for future reference, am I allowed to use the word “many” when referring to the number of innocent civilians killed since 7th October? I am not denying what Hamas did that day. I was pointing out that there were deaths and injuries to civilians caused by the approach used by the IDF too, something that isn’t get much main media attention. This is relevant because of the claim made in the early days that care would be taken to minimise the number of civilian casualties to Palestinians. It has been shown that from day 1 they had no problem with firing on their own people, so any claims that they have taken care to minimise deaths of non Hamas people in Gaza (and the West Bank) was and is clearly bollocks. Can we move on now or do we have to play forum semantics some more? So, a recent poll of Israeli Jews shows that Netanyahu scored less than 4% when it when it came to decision making and giving information. He is clearly deeply unpopular (if you don’t like the word deeply feel free to use another of your choice) in Israel and in Jewish communities outside of Israel. If you look at his quotes and those of some of his government colleagues, the present administration has issues over the two state solution and have an often stated hatred towards Palestinians (there are plenty of examples on line so don’t bother asking me for proof). Hamas is one issue, but until Netanyahu and his cronies are removed the chance of a long term peaceful settlement look unlikely. I am deeply sorry to criticise some Jewish people again, but given they are also being criticised by other Jews, I am in good company. *** I have since read another report which mentions “a number of casualties”. Let’s all pretend that I said a “number” rather than “many” and perhaps we can all move on with our lives?

I agree given the amount of dissemination from both sides, that is why I said that I didn’t know if the infirmation about the tunnel had been verified. The Israel police confirmed that there were casualties from “friendly fire” so I am assuming that is verification? I don’t know why you went all MLG by my use of the word “many”. No figure was given (and I misused earlier when talking about the numbers as 200 have already been identified as Hamas - the point I meant to make is that we will probably never know how many deaths were down to Hamas or “friendly fire”) so when I said “many of the casualties” the “many” came from an assumption that as the vast majority of the crowd at the festival were Israelis or foreigners and the terrorists mingled with the crowd to make it difficult for the IDF to target them, any firing into the crowd was likely to cause more than a few casualties. It also transpired that the IDF fired artillery shells into the crowd too. So, we have 1200 Israelis and Foreigners, plus 200 terrorists killed and some 3,400 wounded with a helicopter, artillery and automatic weapon fire raking the area, is it really a stretch to assume that “many” of the casualties were caused by friendly fire? I didn’t say it wasn’t. Pointing out that a percentage (is that ok Badger) of the casualties were caused by the IDF themselves does not absolve Hamas of responsibility for the attack and I have never said that. It is also not unreasonable to suggest that the hostages face greater danger from the IDF given that it is the interests of Hamas to keep them alive and the IDF have shown no interest in showing discretion at who they shot at. If you read the article from The Cradle I posted earlier, the Israeli police confirmed that the IDF had shelled a police station in which Hamas were holding a number of Israeli police hostage rather than negotiate for their release, killing everyone inside. They then bulldozed the police station flat (why would you do that?). They also confirmed that IDF tanks shelled a house where Hamas were holding civilians hostage rather than negotiate with the terrorists. Everyone inside was killed including a 12 year old girl. What was that we were told about how careful they were going to be with civilians? These were on their own side! As for Duckhunter’s comments, from the start I have called out the killing of civilians by both sides as wrong but as we know from his own post, his definition of antisemitism is criticising a Jew. So yes, I criticise Netanyahu and the ghouls he governs with for the butchery of innocent civilians on pretty much every day from 7th October. It is his usual deflection tactic. He can’t defend the indefensible although he clearly doesn’t have a problem with it, so he defects. I have an issue with any civilians being killed from either side of the divide, he clearly has no issue with the butchery of women, children and babies as long as they are Palestinian. Now that Whelk, is “nasty”. https://new.thecradle.co/articles-id/13111 No ethnic cleansing here - https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/likud-minister-suggests-world-should-promote-voluntary-resettlement-of-gazans/

It was more than a few so many isn’t a weasel word. From what I have seen a number of cars were hit by the aerial attacks, cars full of people who the attackers wouldn’t have know if they were Hamas or not. As I am sure you know, if you fire automatic weapons at a crowd of people indiscriminately there will be “many” people hit. We will never know how many were Hamas and how many were innocent civilians as “many” of the bodies were badly burnt, but I appreciate your efforts to be even handed.

I don’t know if this has been verified but apparently the Israelis built the tunnel(s) under the hospital when they built the hospital which is why they were so sure it/they existed. Again, I don’t know whether this is fact but, apparently, the Palestinians filled the entrance with concrete as they had no use for that area. For every claim that the Israeli government make you can find shedloads of rebuttals and they often end up backtracking. And we can finally acknowledge that they have gone gung ho and are shooting people indiscriminately as it has been accepted by Netanyahu himself. For those who missed my post earlier the Israeli authorities now accept that many of the casualties at the Nova festival were caused by indiscriminate firing into the escaping crowd by Israeli Apache helicopters. If you are one of the hostages you have probably got more chance now of being killed by the IDF than Hamas. Talking of not aging well, the claim that the IDF were acting out of defence and targeting Hamas is now know to be a lie. From the start they have operated out of revenge, are killing indiscriminately and if they happened to kill Hamas fighters in the process, that is a bonus, but civilians have been fair game from the start. They are not looking to break Hamas, they are looking to break the Palestinians and this is going on in the West Bank too. Netanyahu and his cronies are no better than the Hamas terrorists and his apologists are looking more discredited by the day.

Getting back on topic, do those who think that the IDF have a free rein to do what they want, still happy about that? https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/19/horrifying-dozens-reported-killed-in-israeli-attacks-on-camps-schools