sadoldgit

If they don’t, “Nigel” and the Tory Party will leave Labour in power for decades. “Nigel” will never, ever be PM with Reform as the country don’t elect extremist parties. The only way the Tories will be in a position to win again is by getting rid of the headbangers and showing your party up for what they are. They got plenty of votes this time round through protest at the crap job the Tories had done. Let’s see how many they get in 5 years time shall we? Immigrant bashing will only get you so far.

You may find it boring Whelk, yet here you are. I don’t want it overturned after every election, I just want a fairer system.

Just seen that Therese Coffey lost her seat 🥳🥂🍾

In what way have I been “manipulated by Farage” Whelk? I have been an advocate for the implementation of some kind of PR in the UK for years, hence years voting for LibDems. It is natural to want to discuss it straight after an election isn’t it? My choice of National Anthem - I Vow To Thee My Country

Who do we think it will be? Some of the runners and riders - https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jul/05/who-could-be-next-tory-leader-nine-possible-candidates-from-centrist-to-rightwing Current odds https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-conservative-leader

They didn’t know at the time what would happen to them but were willing to chance it anyway. Now of course they know the scheme will be scrapped so it is moot. There is still the very real risk of drowning though.

Isn’t it illegal under international law to deport people back to their CoO if it puts them in danger?

Not everyone can go on forever at the top (not even Pepe). Is it brave to sacrifice the team to satisfy one man’s ego? Ronaldo was never going to admit that he isn’t up to it now and retire from international football, but his performances have shown that he clearly isn’t. I guess they were gambling on him conjuring up another moment of magic. The gamble failed.

I guess the argument is progress in competitions. Would we rather we played brilliant, attacking football but never get out of the group stages? In an ideal world we would play great football and win everything. Sadly we do not live in an ideal world.

I have no idea, which is why I would like to see an independent commission deal with it and to come up with recommendations. There is no right or wrong, but there just has to be a better way than FPTP if Parliament is there to reflect the way the people have voted.

This is the problem. There is no perfect system but it is trying to find a system that ticks most boxes for us. Forms of PR work well in other countries, not so well also, but because it works well in, say, New Zealand, their system might not work as well here.

Various systems and who uses them. https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/voting-systems/types-of-voting-system/

Some pros and cons https://uk-engage.org/2013/08/what-are-the-advantages-and-disadvantages-of-using-a-proportional-representation-pr-electoral-system/

I agree that Labour have a mountain to climb in stopping the small boats. However media reporters seem to be able to track down gang leaders abroad so hopefully a more concerted effort to smash the gangs, to use Starmer’s words, will have an effect. The threat of deportation to Rwanda hasn’t worked as a deterrent nor does the possibility of drowning at sea. What exactly is an illegal immigrant? It is not illegal to land in our shores and claim asylum. Part of the problem has been the lack of processing of asylum seekers claims are dealing with them appropriately. As for how they are treated when they arrive, they are human beings and need to be treated as such.

Put simply, democracy is the rule of the people for the people by the people. In the early days of democracy in Ancient Greece most of “the people” didn’t have a vote. Socrates himself said that democracy was nearly the worst kind of rule at the time. Fortunately, things have changed over the years, although it wasn’t that long ago historically that woman were denied that right here and there is still a discussion about at what age here you are entitled to have a vote. But just how democratic is democracy? The word “undemocratic” is thrown around a lot when we aren’t happy with the way a vote goes. Clearly if 100% of the people vote for something, it works very well. Not so well if the vote is split 51%/49%. Is it really “democratic” if “the will of the people” is determined by just one person? Clearly it is not “the will of the people”, it is the will of most people. And that is the problem with democracy. The will of many people is discounted completely. The thorny issue of PR naturally raises its head after every vote. Labour have a massive majority with only 35% of the electorate having voted for them. People are left frustrated because they feel their vote counts for nothing in a safe seat area or if they are voting for any one of the smaller parties. On the election thread we have some calling for PR and some supporting the FPTP system. Personally I am in favour of a system that incorporates PR as it is more “democratic” than being governed totally by a party that the majority haven’t voted for. We had a fudged referendum on a form of PR that was voted against, but surely it is time to have a proper, grown up, look at the system and to find a way that gives the people a proportionate voice in Parliament? There are good arguments for and against PR. There are different types of PR, so which is best if we do go down that route? I believe an independent Royal commission should be set up to look at the way we are governed. The UK in 2024 is a very different place to the one where the current voting system was introduced. Neither the Tories nor Labour have an interest in changing the status quo, and why should they if it works for them? It doesn’t work for millions of voters whose vote doesn’t give them a voice though. So then, PR - yes or no? And if yes, what type of PR should we look to adopt?

An interesting alternative view on the career of Gareth Southgate as England manager. (Don’t shoot the messenger!) https://amp.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jul/05/euro-2024-england-gareth-southate-successful-manager-failure

Chris Patten (google him if you are a youngster) has just dissed the current Tory leading members on the BBC. Another old Tory bemoaning the lurch to the right.

Pepe doing well for an old’un

The French shooting hasn’t gotten any better.

How much skill does it take to pick fruit? The kind that was rotting on the vines when all of the EU workers went home? I’m sure you know we struggle to get people to do the more menial tasks, like wait tables too. We need both skilled and unskilled migrants.

That’s the kind of game that would send Gareth Southgate to therapy!

Plenty of drama at the death

How did Germany not score?

What a cross!

The ball hit him but they give those now I thought?