sadoldgit

Will it be accepted by Netanhyau’s government? Probably not. Will the IDF stop the indescribably killing of Palestinian civilians and the intimidation of Palestinians in the West Bank? Probably not. Will it last? It probably won’t happened for some time. Good to see Biden finally stepping up and trying to impose some authority, it is about time. But given that Netanyahu has recently said that he sees it lasting another 7 months and probably feels that he needs to kill more civilians and flatten more of Gaza to keep his government and the extremists in Israel happy, I think Biden is going to have to apply much more pressure to get Israel to the negotiating table. The is a film coming out next week called Where Oliver Trees Weep and documents the experiences of several Palestinians living in the West Bank under Israeli occupation. There are a few on here who should watch it but probably won’t.

Because they are two different jobs and in certain circumstances some political commentators are supposed to be unbiased. There are also broadcasting rules that dictate what people can and cannot do depending on their position, although Ofcom don’t really bother about enforcing them when it comes to GB News. There is already an issue about Farage having his own show on GB News and also going into bat for Reform.

My issue with Farage in particular is that he wants, and gets, the best of both worlds. He wants to be a political commentator and the mouthpiece of a political party. Be one or be the other. He also gets a disproportionate amount of media exposure compared to the representatives of the other minority political parties. He plays the media like a (very poorly tuned) violin and they let him do it. He is box office, like Trump. Talking of whom, when Farage has finished pulling the Tory Party apart and turning them into a bigger vehicle for the far right, he will be off to take the Trump shilling and do his best to ruin further the US. Gotta love democracy 🫡.

Good question. There was a time when it was unacceptable for politicians to tell outright lies. Yes, they would evade questions, answer questions that hadn’t been asked or be “economical with the truth” (which just fell short of an outright lie). You certainly wouldn’t expect the President of the US or the UK Prime Minister to stand on a platform and tell outright lies. How times have changed. In answer to your question, the former is most culpable but we know enough now not to accept everything as gospel and to fact check everything as far as we are able. There are a number of people now that it is pretty safe to assume that most of what they say is BS. We have heard a very long, incoherent ramble from one this afternoon.

I don’t think anyone would have a problem with Richard Tice or Lee Anderson being on QT. Every week there are people who express contrary opinions on QT or all over the media for that matter. We might not like some opinions we hear but we do live in a society where they can be expressed. Most of the electorate do not vote Tory but most of our newspapers support the Tory Party and I don’t think there are any left leading “news” programmes on TV like GB News. We are free to challenge things we do not like to hear and we do. The problem with free speech is that blatant lies have been left unchallenged and have passed as truth. People like Trump, Johnson and, yes, Nigel Farage have used free speech to twist and distort facts to suit their own agendas. If you feel that you have a strong argument, put it out there as it is and let it stand or fall on its own merits. What is happening more and more now is that we are being misled by people well versed in playing on people’s fears and selling us an alternative reality. Who coined the term “alternative facts”? Trump? I don’t have a problem with people like Farage having a say. I have a problem with them portraying themselves and their views as something they are not. There still people who believe Johnson’s lies about the EU edict about straight bananas. I don’t think any of us will forget the lie printed across the campaign bus about giving the EU money to the NHS. To me it’s not so much a question of not liking what I am hearing, it is about misinformation being deliberately fed to us as fact.

The highlight of the evening was when Farage said that he was only there because he was asked and Fiona Bruce replied that they had asked Lee Anderson first but he couldn’t make it. Burst poor old Nigel’s bubble! As you say, the audience is made up according to the percentage of votes cast at the last election and Fiona Bruce makes that clear every week so the idea that the audience was rigged against Farage is nonsense. Is Starmer carrying out a purge of the left? It is plausible but looks more likely that he is continuing his campaign of zero tolerance of anyone showing any sign of anti-semitism. As the far left of the party are more likely to be pro Palestinian it is no surprise that these people are finding themselves with a selection problem. Hardly any mention in the media about Sunak parachuting his pals into safe Tory seats. I don’t recall a lot of critical attention being paid to the Tories when most of the moderate centrists vanished. Given the general media’s hatred of the far left you would think that they would be delighted that Labour’s profile was becoming closer to the centre. Ironic that people who have spent their careers trashing Diane Abbott are now outraged over the treatment of her in this matter. Having said that it is bizarre that it took the NEC so long to deal with her case. Starmer can’t win though. Damned if he supports her, damned if he gets rid of her. It all boils down to the party leadership, fed by focus groups. Any party will want its membership to sing from the same hymn sheet. This is why we currently have a very right leading Tory Party (with Sunak being to weak to move it towards the centre) and why Starmer is doing his best to position Labour as a more moderate party. Of course the media understands this bit just plays on the public prejudices. Starmer knows this very well which is why he has distanced himself from the likes of Corbyn and Abbott. * Richard Tice is the leader of the Reform Party. Nigel Farage is the honorary President.

My odd behaviour? Given that he was banned from The Ugly Inside for his odd behaviour I guess he would know all about that. I am with you. Let him go off to his attention seeking, childish I know something you don’t know thread and hopefully we can get on and discuss the election while he feeds his ego. Just listening to the financial forecasts and it seems that no matter who gets elected, we face a further financial squeeze for a number of years to come with more public spending cuts. Oh joy.

It is very bizarre isn’t it? Tellingly though it is always the same people, they all share the same basic ideology and never, ever, criticise each other. They are an odd bunch but then you will always find these types of people on social media forums. Anyway, back to the subject of the thread. Farage has been all over the media again and, surprise, surprise, has a seat on Question Time tonight. Why do we continue to put up with this odious character. He is a snake oil salesman who would have been run out of town in the good old days when grifters were given short shrift. The media bend over backwards to give him air time. He is not an MP. He is not the leader of a political party. He gets plenty of airtime on the right wing propaganda platform GB News so why give him more exposure? God knows he has done enough damage to this country without doing more. It seems he is now intent on manoeuvring the Tory Party further right, as if this country needs an opposition party where the likes of Braverman, Patel and Badenoch pull the strings. We also have the batshit crazy Truss running amok with Sunak doing nothing to distance himself and his party from her playing to the gallery with her deeply obnoxious friends. Meanwhile the right friendly media are trying to distract us by telling us that the selection/deselection of a certain longstanding MP is a crisis for Starmer. Is it really? I think most people are more concerned with what is going to happen to the NHS in future. It is also amusing to see the same people who have hated on her for years now pretending that what is happening to her is an outrage. Watch the Telegraph, Mail and Express enthusiastically campaign for her reinstatement if she is deselected.

Zero surprise that hypo doesn’t have an issue with Ben Shapiro’s comments as he clearly shares his opinions.

You are wasting your time. He clearly is happier wallowing in his preconceived prejudices and firing off silly laughing emojis on a thread about a conflict in which tens of thousands of people have already died, even more maimed and even more displaced and starved. Why anyone would be proud of saying that they aren’t prepared to educate themselves about a complex issue and keep repeating the same mantra that people are supporting the Hamas attack when no one here has and that anyone criticising the Israeli actions is anti-Semitic, God only knows. If I am an awful person, what does that make him? There is a reason hundreds of thousands of people all around the world are protesting about what is happening in Gaza. You would think that at least would make him understand that there is more going on than he currently comprehends. Anyway, I am happy being in the company of all of these “awful” people. He can carry on wallowing in his ignorance.

Of course they are trolling. They are trying to defend the indefensible, as are the Israeli government . They constantly play the antisemitism card when anyone criticises the actions of Netanyahu and the IDF. This constant use of the events of 7th October to justify destroying Gaza and many of its population shows a complete lack of desire to understand the conflict as a whole. The posts saying that it isn’t that bad because Israel haven’t killed everyone in Gaza are lower than 6th form logic. Again, if any of these people took the trouble to understand what is actually happening here they would know exactly what the Israeli tactics are. They aren’t really interested because they do nothing but repeat the 7th October/antisemitism mantra. Look up the Dahiya Doctrine. The Israeli tactics are to lay waste to the infra structure and target anyone in the way using disproportionate revenge attacks on the civilian population as a way of deterring further attacks on themselves. The trouble is, those tactics only inflame the situation and lead to further violence. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/may/28/attacks-rafah-no-accident-idf-losing-strategy The usual suspects are not interested in hearing the other side. Their dislike of Muslims is enough to carry on supporting the Israeli tactics no matter what they do or what the cost is. It is quite something to see the way they use the horrific attacks on one day to justify 8 months of destruction and siege on a mostly civilian population. If the situation was reversed and it was Hamas destroying a captive Israeli population in Tel Aviv would they have the same opinions? No, of course they wouldn’t. They would be calling it out every day, and rightly so. The IDF have raped and killed Palestinian women too, and before 7th October. You don’t hear any recognition about their actions from these posters. It’s all about 7th October for them and the Israeli government. Nothing they have done or do since matters in relation to what happened to them on that day. As said right at the beginning, nothing happens in a vacuum. What happened on 7th October was the result at what has gone on before. If you are going to point the finger at the Palestinian actions, you have to hold the Israelis to the same standards. The rape of Israeli women by Palestinians is no worse than the rape of Palestinian women by Israelis (unless you hold the view that Palestinians are subhuman as some Israelis do). Hypochondriac has a long standing dislike of Muslims as evidence by his posts going back years so I don’t expect him to bother to look into what has gone on and why in any depth. Duckhunter had a jolly holiday in Israel therefore is fully informed about all of the nuances of the conflict and understands the Palestinian side of the argument fully having talked to many Israelis. Weston is just in it for the wind up and Whelk, well Whelk is doing what Whelk does. Thankfully there are a number of posters on this thread who can see the situation for what it is. This has absolutely nothing to do with antisemitism and everything to do with understanding that extremist ideologies on both sides result in death and destruction to both sides with the Israelis having the military might to cause more proportionately. It is the innocent people on both sides who are having to deal with the consequences. The ICJ recognise exactly what is going on and that is why they are holding leaders on both sides to account. I think their understanding of the situation is worth far more than a few people trolling on an internet football forum. Netanyahu, his government and the IDF are just as complicit in this inhumane bloodbath as Hamas, the other Islamic extremist groups and their military.

Do you understand the difference between a democratically elected government that aligns itself to the Western values and a prescribed terrorist group? Also, if you read the article you will see that both the Israeli government and Hamas have officials being investigated for alleged war crimes. The difference is that one has its national intelligence agency threatening UN officials to drop the case and that one is the party who present themselves as being on the moral high ground. And for those easily confused, if you are innocent of charges brought against you, why wouldn’t you be confident of proving your case in court rather than going down the route of threatening people to drop the charges? Also for those who believe that the Israelis are the victims - https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/5/15/the-nakba-five-palestinian-towns-massacred-75-years-ago Or behave in a morally superior way - https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/22/claims-of-israeli-sexual-assault-of-palestinian-women-are-credible-un-panel-says Again for those who believe this started on 7th October, educate yourself about the Safsaf massacre and rape of Palestinians in 1948 - https://english.wafa.ps/page.aspx?id=3cTfB8a110851623663a3cTfB8

This. 36 years old with a poor injury record. If the idea is to bring in a coach, fine, but bring in one with coaching experience. I don’t see how this works as a player or a player/coach. The money could be better spent elsewhere.

Yet another “tragic mishap” over the weekend in Gaza leaves more women and children dead. Meanwhile another example of how the current Israeli government feel that the rules don’t apply to them. https://amp.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/28/israeli-spy-chief-icc-prosecutor-war-crimes-inquiry

Kraken took a dislike to me on Sotonians some time back so he is an old member of the antiSog society. At least it keeps them off the streets 😉.

Delldays?

I watched the match at my brothers place (bigger and better TV) and driving home last night through Tunbridge Wells saw two people in Saints shirts (proper red and white stripes, not pink and red) walking up the road from the station. They look like they had had a good time! Not much to add really. As said the second half seemed to go on forever but despite all Leeds possession I didn’t feel as nervous as I usually do when teams attack our defence. A strange game as we offered very little going forward but defensively we were immense. My MotM was McCarthy for the way he controlled the box but the whole team were magnificent in keeping Leeds out. Very pleased for SR after all the stick they have taken and for Martin, ditto. You can add the likes Will Smallbone too. The atmosphere looked brilliant and must have lifted the players so well done everyone who was there. Probably need to spend a bit more time savouring the the play offs but totally agree with what is being said about next season. We need to strengthen in several positions if we aren’t going to struggle and for all of his passion, that includes a lesser role for the likes of Stephens. You just can’t give the ball away as much as he does and not get punished in the Prem. Having said that he deserved his moment yesterday for his service and commitment to the club. He will always have that in his locker, but we need better next season. Hopefully we will keep our better players now and will build on those. I shall miss the Championship and being one of the better sides in the league but am intrigued to see what next season brings. More grief for Martin I expect 😂. Having been a Saints fan for 58 years, as we know, moments like this don’t come along too often. It makes a pleasant change to see the forum when everybody is (mostly) together! 🥳

It’s a bit odd isn’t it? And he keeps talking about Labour taking us back to “square one” whilst he is now talking about taking us back to 1949! He has got nothing to fight with so is just clutching at straws. It will appeal to the Gammons but he has just handed even more of the young vote to Labour/LibDems/Greens. Many of our young men were taken abroad and shot at and many killed in the original NS (395 on active service apparently). Not really an incentive to vote for the Tories is it? What will Reform do to try and top that? Bring back conscription? Press Gangs?

The recognition of Palestine as a state seems crucial in the way forward. Netanyahu needs to recognise that this is not about rewarding terrorism, but finding a way forward to a lasting peace and security for both Israel and Palestine. He also needs to tell the world what his plans are when the fighting stops but seems to be holding off because a continuing military conflict keeps the far right of his government happy whereas they are not interested in giving anything to the Palestinians. An international body aligned with a Palestinian presence would seem to be the way forward for governance of both Gaza and the West Bank as a starting point. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-69059863.amp

Still making things up then. I have made it clear that I voted LidDem for years but stopped when Clegg handed power to Cameron, a move that had a disastrous effect on the UK both nationally and internationally. I have previously stated very clearly that I voted tactically in the last two elections in order to get the sitting Tory MP out. That meant voting for the Labour candidate. That said I had no problem if it meant Corbyn becoming PM. I would have preferred a more centralist Labour leader but still felt that Corbyn was a better option than anything the Tories had to offer. We will never know how a Corbyn lead Labour Party government would have fared but we know exactly what damage Cameron, May, Johnson, Truss and now Sunak have done to this country. I wasn’t a Corbyn supporter. I was a supporter of getting the Tories out and he was the best bet at the time as the LibDems weren’t at the races and I would still have him as PM before anything the Tories have had to offer. As for the “meltdown” (you are such a drama queen) I think millions of people in this country felt absolutely gutted when the Tories won and have been proved to be right. Plenty of people had a “strop” because they new exactly where the country was heading. I am not distancing myself from Corbyn but I do realise that in order for Starmer to win a workable majority he needs to win the votes of the people that Corbyn scares. He doesn’t scare me but he clearly scares people like you (who think that socialism is dangerous 😂). Corbyn is an electoral liability for those who make up Middle England. The bigger issue here is to remove the Tories from power and if that means that some people have to be sidelined, then so be it. As a turkey you might be happy to vote for Christmas. Hopefully most of the country’s voters will have a different view. What is all this nonsense about “White Knight”? Egg and I have crossed swords many times in the past and will probably do so again in the future. He is grown up enough to understand that you can agree on some things and disagree on others. You on the other hand do not have that in your locker. Your very childish comment shows once again that you have zero self awareness. You are part of a small group of like minded people who constantly back each other up and never, ever, criticise each other. To call one person a “White Knight” for agreeing very occasionally with a poster who you spend a lot your time slagging off reflects more on your own inability to function as rational adult on social media. Another example, if it were needed, is the way you selectively criticise the likes of Dianne Abbott but turn a blind eye when someone whose politics you support makes bigger gaffs. Laura Trott has made herself look more inept and foolish than Abbott but not a word of criticism from you. No surprise there. You voted for Johnson when it was very clear what a car wreck of a person he is. You have said you would vote for Badenoch now also displays some very unpleasant traits. Very strange for someone who once claimed on here to be “liberal” 😂. As for “mental” don’t you think that Sunak’s plan to bring back National Service falls into that category? Perhaps capitalists can be dangerous too? 😂 By the way, I am using laughing emojis here as you enjoy them so much 😉. Oh, and Kraken, sorry to see that you have fallen into the same trap as the other usual suspects on here but let me assure you that grown ups are entirely able to be pro Palestinian without being antisemites.

They used to paint our warships like this in WW2 to camouflage them. We have enough trouble finding our players in the box as it is.

It seems that aid workers need to be just as worried about the IDF as Hamas. https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2024/5/24/un-security-council-passes-motion-denouncing-attacks-on-aid-workers Are the UN antisemitic too Ducky? https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/05/24/middleeast/israel-icj-gaza-rafah-south-africa-ruling-intl

I voted Labour before before because that was the best chance of unseating the local Tory MP. As it happens I don’t think that Corbyn or Abbot could have done a worse job than the jokers you voted for. As for your comment about antisemitism, it would seem that the UN are also antisemtic. It seems that antisemites don’t endorse the mass killing of women and children. You do. The people you vote for were and are useless yet all you can do is play the antisemite card. Like Sunak and the Tory Party, you have run out of road 😂😂😂

You have to admire the sheer brass neck of a person who voted for Boris Johnson and supported the party who gave us Liz Truss, two of the most inept PMs in living memory (if not of all time) and then has the gall to have a dig at the likes of Diane Abbot. Completely tone deaf, but then he is the same person who claimed that socialism is dangerous. We shall have to wait and see how the front bench of the new Government perform, but, person for person, they cannot be any worse than the Tory front benchers, even if Diane Abbott was still a front bencher.

It seems a no brainer to recognise the Palestinian state and their right to self determination as Israel has it. Why should it be used as a carrot to encourage Palestine to a negotiated settlement when they are not on a level playing field with Israel? What carrot is being dangled in front of Israel to work towards a negotiated peace settlement? https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-palestinian-state-recognition-what-to-know-ed18d4cc50b20c8238e0de0068080eb0 The idea that this somehow rewards terrorism is a bit rich when you consider the actions of the Israelis when they used terrorism and military force to get what they wanted. Be it a two state solution or not (and it seems that the two state solution is favoured by many) both sides should be sitting at the negotiating table with equal footing. The Palestinians are not some sub human race who need to be treated as second class citizens (despite what some members of the Israeli government think) and they have every right to be treated as equals in any future negotiations about their own future.