sadoldgit

I don’t know who is advising Sunak, but it is almost as if they are doing their level best not to get him elected.

A pretty tame QT last night apart from the Tory guy when asked about the importance of integrity then went on to repeat the lie about the £2k tax rise. I thought that Carla Denyer came across well.

If you have another poster on ignore their posts still appear when another poster quotes their post. This doesn’t happen on the Ugly Inside forum so it should be an easy tweak to make.

Another Rishi gaff… https://amp.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/07/rishi-sunak-criticised-for-leaving-d-day-event-early-to-record-itv-interview John Crace skewers both Farage and Badenoch… https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/03/lights-cameras-farage-nige-just-couldnt-bear-to-be-left-out

Probably more of a reason not to use them where women and children are sheltering then?

Not helpful… https://amp.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/05/jerusalem-israeli-nationalist-flag-march-muslim-areas

We have moved on 20 years and now also have drones that can take out individuals. The Israeli army also has a proud record in the past of surgical strikes against specific targets. If you fire rockets and shells into buildings you know to be full of women and children, guess what, you are going to kill a lot of women and children.

For the record I didn’t back Abbott to the hilt. I said that he article was clumsy and badly written but I didn’t think that it had antisemitic intent. A number of other people said the same. I said that Starmer had made the point that there is no hierarchy of racism and I agreed with that. There is a difference between talking about different types of prejudice, which is the point she was trying to make, and denying that others don’t get it, which she didn’t. Which groups did I discriminate against and where is the evidence that I discriminated against Jewish people? If you are conflating criticism with discrimination you will not be alone in this thread. Re Abbott’s previous comments, I stated quite clearly that I was focussing on that particular article because that is what she was suspended for. If there was any other historic reasons I don’t recall them being mentioned at the time. If there were, I assume that she has been exonerated of them as she is still in the party. There is nothing unreasonable about that as much as you would like to make it so. Corbyn claims that he is not antisemitic. Has he been been found guilty of being so? His handling of the antisemitism claims in Labour were poor and he is clearly a strong supporter of the Palestinians, as many people are, it doesn’t make everybody antisemitic. I don’t think that Starmer was right to remove the whip from her but given the microscope he is under he didn’t really have any choice did he? Those who hate her and constantly play the antisemitic card had already decided her guilt, although her article was much more about black/brown and white divisions than anything to do with Jewish people specifically and if you read the article in The Observer you will see why she responded as she did. The comment about the hostages being safer with Hamas was a reference to the IDF killing several of its own who were unarmed and carrying a white flag. The IDF were also found to have killed several Israeli police inside an Israeli police station being held hostage and then bulldozered over the scene (this from the Israeli police). Also look at the number of innocent civilians, aid workers and journalists killed by the IDF and my comment is not discriminatory, it is well justified. As for trying to refine the definition of antisemitism, no, I was reframing it and making the obvious point that every time anyone tries to criticise the actions of the Israeli government and their military, the same old tropes are thrown back in our faces and it is made to be all about a hatred for Jewish people. I can’t claim credit for that, it came from an article from a political commentator who made the point much better than I did. Re the length of my posts, you also write very long posts and I have switched off halfway through many of them, but thanks for the advice. My advice to you and the others who take issue with my opinions, if you don’t like them, don’t read them. It really is very simple.

It is the end of times!

The other thread is called “D-Day Comemorative - why isn’t Southampton’s part being acknowleged?” My thread has nothing to do with Southampton’s part in D-Day, but if it really bothers you that much perhaps suggest that a mod merges it with one that is about a different issue/subject. The reason I started a separate thread is because this one is more generic and not so specific but sorry if that is an issue for you.

If you haven’t already check out the tactical voting websites. https://tactical.vote/

Bless him. You would think he would have more important things to do like wallow in his attention seeking CoT thread. Do you think anyone has actually explained to him that he doesn’t have to read my posts? Masochistic as well as narcissistic perhaps?

Yes I do waffle. And you are very grumpy. We were shown how precise munitions were in the Iraq war so it comes as a bit of a surprise to see so much “collateral damage” there is now by a well drilled and equipped military machine now. Unless,of course, the IDF are not bothered about precision and are just killing indiscriminately, which I think is more to the point.

Look at the headings, might give you a clue.

There was a phone in today on LBC where they discussed the fact that people who lived through WW2 rarely, if ever, spoke about their experiences. My mum was 9 and my dad was 11 when war was declared. My mum spent most of the Blitz in London although did spend a few months as an evacuee in Devon. My dad was in London and eventually joined the Home Guard. Neither of my grandads were involved due to injuries sustained in WW1. Some of my mum’s siblings took part in the action and my dad’s brother fought with the 8th Army in Italy. One of my mum’s sisters (she was one of eleven) was married to a Spitfire pilot who perished in an accident returning from a mission. With the exception of a few hoary old anecdotes, none of them spoke about the war. My mum had a couple of stories which would wheeled out once a year but my dad didn’t say a word. The same with his brother who saw action. There was a gas mask in the hall stand and various bits of military paraphernalia spread around the house in the 50’s; photos, badges, medals, bits of shrapnel etc. The subject of the war just didn’t come up. I asked my old mates from the same era and they said it was exactly the same with them and their families. It seemed to be a common understanding that us kids didn’t ask questions and the grown ups just didn’t go there. Was it the same with you guys? The general comment on the phone in was that the generations that lived through the war were so traumatised that they avoided reliving the memories as much as possible. It had been very touching watching the last of the old boys who took part of the invasion, some who have avoided returning before to now, finally, pay homage to their old friends and colleagues. God knows what goes through their minds when they see that war is still being waged in Europe. I would love to be able to pass on the memories of their grandparents to my children, but I can’t. They have died with them. God bless the previous generations who gave their lives for us.

Really?

I guess we will find out won’t we. Perhaps have a word with the BBC about their frequency of reports from Gaza too? Not sure why you find it a problem though. 14 women and 9 children killed if you are interested in a “precise” air strike Oh, and war crimes do not depend what the motivation of the people who commit them are.

You should go and work for Netanyahu’s press office.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/apr/15/racism-in-britain-is-not-a-black-and-white-issue-it-is-far-more-complicated The above is the article in The Observer that Diane Abbott had the whip removed for replying to. It is universally agreed, including by herself, that it was clumsy and wrong. The point that she was trying to make though is that black and brown people are immediately identifiable by dint of their skin colour and therefore are a greater target more frequently for racist abuse. They are more likely to be pulled over in a car than white people. They are more likely to be stopped and searched than white people. They have experienced more segregation over the centuries due to their skin colour. She was making her point based on skin colour, not religion, and she only mentioned some sections of white people as they experience”prejudice” as she put it, but not racism. Now some people have decided that was antisemitic and some people didn’t think it was. I didn’t think her comments in this instance were, which led to a few posters on here using it as evidence that I apparently hate all Jewish people. She has since had the whip restored and is now standing for Labour at the next election, so we must assume that Labour have decided that her comments were badly phrased rather than rabidly anti semitic and she is free to canvass in a constituency which contains a large Jewish presence. With the news that the Tory Party are keeping Frank Hester’s original donation and a further donation he made after his comments about seeing her made him wanting to hate all black women and shoot her, perhaps it gives more weight to her argument. Starmer quite rightly said at the time that there is no hierarchy in racism, but there does seem to be a disparity here. He is clearly paranoid about any hint of antisemism being levelled at the party again and goes out of his way to distance the party from it, but Sunak, even after being persuaded that he should call out Hester’s comments for what they are, is happy to take money from a blatant racist for his election campaign.

If this is directed at me I have condemned the invasion of the Ukraine by Russia and the killing of civilians. The IRA were a terrorist organisation. Hamas are a terrorist organisation. They both sought/seek autonomy and self determination. The argument stands. You do not deliberately attack targets like schools or hospitals. The Ukraine war has been going on a lot longer than the Israeli attack on Gaza. I expect, if the IDF are still blowing up schools and hospitals in another year’s time I will have given up posting about it.

The likes of Trump, Farage and Johnson pioneered the use of lying about pretty much everything. There is a big difference between them and someone like Blair. He rightly still gets called out about WOMD, you would spend a lot more time calling out the lies told by Trump, Johnson and Farage. Sunak is happy to join that club it seems now. It was once the done thing for politicians to resign if caught in a lie. It is now a perfectly acceptable campaign technique thanks to the trailblazing frequency of lying by Trump, Johnson and Farage. What was that about bringing back integrity Rishi?

Can you imagine the outrage if Frank Hester had made his comments about a Jewish woman? It appears that he donated more money to the Tory Party since he made those comments and they have kept it all. Still no big deal because it is only a black woman eh? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c900138vek4o.amp

No it isn’t. Yes, the IRA weren’t Hamas, but the principle remains the same. It is the same as the IDF shooting Israelis as well as terrorists when they have been taken hostage. https://watchlist.org/publications/what-does-international-law-say-about-attacks-on-schools-and-hospitals/#:~:text=An attack against a civilian,effective contribution to military action.

John Crace is always good value. https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/05/no-more-mr-nice-guy-rish-embracing-boris-johnsons-brand-making-stuff-up

This from the BBC recently. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckrr1k1xl0lo.amp