Money for new players...

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

I was wondering if someone could enlighten me on something.

 

I've been thinking about the offseason, and the money brought in from the sale of players/saved on wages. We sold players worth £2.5m, while also removing the wages of players like Skacel, John, BWP, all the loanees etc. Now, we know the 500k from Dyer went directly to pay a months wages (May's was it not?), and then the Pinnacle exclusivity went to pay the June wages. By the time July's came along we had a new owner. So, I am wondering whether the money we are spending currently is money we legitimately have, and not an investment from Liebherr, or would the money have gone to creditors (I'd assume not myself, the money was probably put as cash onto the football club and not onto SLH).

 

What do we reckon? We know from last year that for much of the year SFC was profit making, even with the poor crowds. In theory are we just spending money the club already has, or is it Lieberrs?

 

By the way, I'm really not complaining, just wondering.

[dubai_phil]

I was wondering if someone could enlighten me on something.

 

I've been thinking about the offseason, and the money brought in from the sale of players/saved on wages. We sold players worth £2.5m, while also removing the wages of players like Skacel, John, BWP, all the loanees etc. Now, we know the 500k from Dyer went directly to pay a months wages (May's was it not?), and then the Pinnacle exclusivity went to pay the June wages. By the time July's came along we had a new owner. So, I am wondering whether the money we are spending currently is money we legitimately have, and not an investment from Liebherr, or would the money have gone to creditors (I'd assume not myself, the money was probably put as cash onto the football club and not onto SLH).

 

What do we reckon? We know from last year that for much of the year SFC was profit making, even with the poor crowds. In theory are we just spending money the club already has, or is it Lieberrs?

 

By the way, I'm really not complaining, just wondering.

 

Much of your OP is based on incorrect assumptions. Most assured of which is the comment in bold. You honestly could not be more wrong. In fact LMAO!

 

Which was one of the questions I posed at the start on the "Mess" thread

 

FWIW the weekend that Pinnacle pulled out was when the appearance and bonus payments had to be made to the playing squad, hence the departure of DMG/AS.

 

The new owners will have produced a business plan. It will have started from a position of zero. The ST revenue, average match day sales and commercial revenue will all have been planned.

 

The OPEX budget will also have been planned including all back office salaries and small items like the stadium running cost, IT etc

 

Then a Playing Budget will have been addressed, The salary budget will have been brought down to a level that was sane.

 

At that point you will have reached "The Burn Rate" ie how much cash the business could lose each month.

 

At that point the owner will have arranged finance, either by a secured overdraft or by allocating a draw down account.

 

The critical factor at the beginning will have been that the BUDGETS will have been agreed by all parties, operations and playing side. It will be the manager's job to make sure that he balances the books to the plan.

 

Like I keep saying, the Swiss are vey methodical, they will not simply Fed-Ex a brown paper bag across each week when someone asks for it, although there will be regular presentations and reviews tracking performance and plans (that's what the Board does)

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Much of your OP is based on incorrect assumptions. Most assured of which is the comment in bold. You honestly could not be more wrong. In fact LMAO!

 

Which was one of the questions I posed at the start on the "Mess" thread

 

FWIW the weekend that Pinnacle pulled out was when the appearance and bonus payments had to be made to the playing squad, hence the departure of DMG/AS.

 

The new owners will have produced a business plan. It will have started from a position of zero. The ST revenue, average match day sales and commercial revenue will all have been planned.

 

The OPEX budget will also have been planned including all back office salaries and small items like the stadium running cost, IT etc

 

Then a Playing Budget will have been addressed, The salary budget will have been brought down to a level that was sane.

 

At that point you will have reached "The Burn Rate" ie how much cash the business could lose each month.

 

At that point the owner will have arranged finance, either by a secured overdraft or by allocating a draw down account.

 

The critical factor at the beginning will have been that the BUDGETS will have been agreed by all parties, operations and playing side. It will be the manager's job to make sure that he balances the books to the plan.

 

Like I keep saying, the Swiss are vey methodical, they will not simply Fed-Ex a brown paper bag across each week when someone asks for it, although there will be regular presentations and reviews tracking performance and plans (that's what the Board does)

 

So are you saying that you expect bonus payments to have added up to the amount that we got for DMG/Surman? I can't beieve that considering we got relegated and only reached 3rd rounds of FA and League Cup. What I am trying to ascertain is where the rest of the money would have gone (although we don't know if the money was up front or in installments).

[dubai_phil]

During the close season the average opex bill was rumoured to be around 500k a month. That apparently more than doubled when the bonuses were due, not to mention PAYE & other costs such as housing & transport allowances...

 

The timing of those payments had been linked to the receipt of the Early Bird ST revenue in the past. That did not happen. In fact there was zero income in the summer.

 

The rumours allege that Crouch donated one of the wage bills, He is equally rumoured to have LENT it, so the maths do stack up I'm afraid.

 

Now we can all argue until we are blue in the face about whether anyone EARNT any bonuses last year, but the fact remains that players get a base salary and then bonuses whether it be win bonus, appearance money, goal bonus etc.

 

In addition, there would have been bills due during that period that HAD to be paid, PAYE, VAT, Agents Fees, Football Debts, Stadium running costs, salaries of staff etc.

By continuing to trade, the running costs of the club kept piling up. To get an idea search out the last published set of accounts pre-Lowe, then take a wild guess that he managed to slash those costs by say one third (which would be a remarkable achievement in any business in one year) and you get an idea of the cost of running the club while no income came in. The figures stack up I'm afraid, no conspiracy there

 

I would expect that Rasiak's 3 minutes on Tuesday cost the club VERY well in excess of an extra 500 quid.

 

So back to my thread - this stuff needs to be told properly by people with the facts, not as partial guesses or analysis on the forum

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

During the close season the average opex bill was rumoured to be around 500k a month. That apparently more than doubled when the bonuses were due, not to mention PAYE & other costs such as housing & transport allowances...

 

The timing of those payments had been linked to the receipt of the Early Bird ST revenue in the past. That did not happen. In fact there was zero income in the summer.

 

The rumours allege that Crouch donated one of the wage bills, He is equally rumoured to have LENT it, so the maths do stack up I'm afraid.

 

Now we can all argue until we are blue in the face about whether anyone EARNT any bonuses last year, but the fact remains that players get a base salary and then bonuses whether it be win bonus, appearance money, goal bonus etc.

 

In addition, there would have been bills due during that period that HAD to be paid, PAYE, VAT, Agents Fees, Football Debts, Stadium running costs, salaries of staff etc.

By continuing to trade, the running costs of the club kept piling up. To get an idea search out the last published set of accounts pre-Lowe, then take a wild guess that he managed to slash those costs by say one third (which would be a remarkable achievement in any business in one year) and you get an idea of the cost of running the club while no income came in. The figures stack up I'm afraid, no conspiracy there

 

I would expect that Rasiak's 3 minutes on Tuesday cost the club VERY well in excess of an extra 500 quid.

 

So back to my thread - this stuff needs to be told properly by people with the facts, not as partial guesses or analysis on the forum

 

Agreed, but not many companies give the account transparency that you are seemingly referring to. We shall see whether we get it, as it seems to me that this forum is followed by someone at the club, with club statements etc being very 'timely', shall we say, so hopefully we'll see something like this.

[Alain Perrin]

During the close season the average opex bill was rumoured to be around 500k a month. That apparently more than doubled when the bonuses were due, not to mention PAYE & other costs such as housing & transport allowances...

 

The timing of those payments had been linked to the receipt of the Early Bird ST revenue in the past. That did not happen. In fact there was zero income in the summer.

 

The rumours allege that Crouch donated one of the wage bills, He is equally rumoured to have LENT it, so the maths do stack up I'm afraid.

 

Now we can all argue until we are blue in the face about whether anyone EARNT any bonuses last year, but the fact remains that players get a base salary and then bonuses whether it be win bonus, appearance money, goal bonus etc.

 

In addition, there would have been bills due during that period that HAD to be paid, PAYE, VAT, Agents Fees, Football Debts, Stadium running costs, salaries of staff etc.

By continuing to trade, the running costs of the club kept piling up. To get an idea search out the last published set of accounts pre-Lowe, then take a wild guess that he managed to slash those costs by say one third (which would be a remarkable achievement in any business in one year) and you get an idea of the cost of running the club while no income came in. The figures stack up I'm afraid, no conspiracy there

 

I would expect that Rasiak's 3 minutes on Tuesday cost the club VERY well in excess of an extra 500 quid.

 

So back to my thread - this stuff needs to be told properly by people with the facts, not as partial guesses or analysis on the forum

 

How naive Phil. What you've described there is the 'real world', and it is stupid of you to think that that applies in this forum where crackpot analysis, petty vendetta and mock outrage rule absolute.

 

The sooner you accept that

- everything is black and white, there's no Mr Inbetween.

- transfers can be completed inside an hour

- signings should be published on the OS within 38 seconds of the contract signature.

- that we have a divine right to win.

 

... the happier you'll be. That kind of serenity really helps your golf game too.

[sotonjoe]

How naive Phil. What you've described there is the 'real world', and it is stupid of you to think that that applies in this forum where crackpot analysis, petty vendetta and mock outrage rule absolute.

 

The sooner you accept that

- everything is black and white, there's no Mr Inbetween.

- transfers can be completed inside an hour

- signings should be published on the OS within 38 seconds of the contract signature.

- that we have a divine right to win.

 

... the happier you'll be. That kind of serenity really helps your golf game too.

 

 

...and on a serious note Phil, you'd better get used to the fact that a private owner doens't have to give you any of the info you keep asking for! In fact, I'd go so far as to say that such a move would be unprecedented. Remember, we are no longer a plc and none of us have any rights!

[yorkiesaint]

Any money generated before the takeover is lost or spent money I'm afraid..

[dubai_phil]

...and on a serious note Phil, you'd better get used to the fact that a private owner doens't have to give you any of the info you keep asking for! In fact, I'd go so far as to say that such a move would be unprecedented. Remember, we are no longer a plc and none of us have any rights!

 

Lol

 

OK I get the point, no more Mr Sensible

 

Actually I am well happy that we will not have to know from now on. I was actually pointing out what was gone through to start the season!

 

And AP, the golf is going So well these days had 7 pars in one round last week, including my own Y E Yang 216 yard 3 hybrid shot round a tree to 8 feet.

All gearing up for my busy week in November keeping the World's Press under control and teaching Paul Casey how to look happy on a course at the DWC Race to Dubai grand final... so gotta keep in shape, I looked good last year in the Telegrpah with Rory (Getty Images) but have to work on a bit more global exposure at this big one New York Times is the objective this year, CNN was 3 years ago!

[david in sweden]

Agreed, but not many companies give the account transparency that you are seemingly referring to. We shall see whether we get it, as it seems to me that this forum is followed by someone at the club, with club statements etc being very 'timely', shall we say, so hopefully we'll see something like this.

 

 

 

......and I think we might add that the eventual publication of the final set of " pre-administration " figures won't make pretty reading either. However, they should be taken in context, in as much as they are " Pre-Liebherr " ....and will not relate to the " new club structure " which has been put into place since the takeover, and no criticism should be levelled at the new management as they weren't around when the debts were acrueing.

[GenevaSaint]

What we'll never know now is what profit we're making. That was one positive from being listed, the accounts had to be published. Now we're delisted we will just need to accept whats going on with the finances as we'll never know the full story.

 

Which is frustrating, but a necessary evil to have one owner and no PLC.

Edited 20 August, 2009 by GenevaSaint

[Whitey Grandad]

I don't care how much profit the club makes. All that matters to me are performances and results on the pitch.

[Charlie Wayman]

I was wondering if someone could enlighten me on something.

 

I've been thinking about the offseason, and the money brought in from the sale of players/saved on wages. We sold players worth £2.5m, while also removing the wages of players like Skacel, John, BWP, all the loanees etc. Now, we know the 500k from Dyer went directly to pay a months wages (May's was it not?), and then the Pinnacle exclusivity went to pay the June wages. By the time July's came along we had a new owner. So, I am wondering whether the money we are spending currently is money we legitimately have, and not an investment from Liebherr, or would the money have gone to creditors (I'd assume not myself, the money was probably put as cash onto the football club and not onto SLH).

 

What do we reckon? We know from last year that for much of the year SFC was profit making, even with the poor crowds. In theory are we just spending money the club already has, or is it Lieberrs?

 

By the way, I'm really not complaining, just wondering.

 

I'm wondering if you ever botehr to read the threads on here as we have benn up and down and round about this topic all season so why bring it up again, just search the old threads if you want to know, Can't tink many will want to regurgitate all this stuff again.

 

The only money for players will come from gate receipts unless we are lucky enough to offload about 20 of the current bunch for £100,000 each

[GenevaSaint]

I don't care how much profit the club makes. All that matters to me are performances and results on the pitch.

 

 

I agree to an extent, but if we're struggling and AP is being denied funds to strenghten and we're maming a handsome profit I wouldn't be happy. NOT saying that is the case, just pointing out that we will not know the financials behind the club now, which is something we need to accept.

[Scummer]

......and I think we might add that the eventual publication of the final set of " pre-administration " figures won't make pretty reading either.

 

Will we ever get to see them?

[GenevaSaint]

The only money for players will come from gate receipts unless we are lucky enough to offload about 20 of the current bunch for £100,000 each

 

Self sufficiency is the way to go! I agree 100%,

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

I'm wondering if you ever botehr to read the threads on here as we have benn up and down and round about this topic all season so why bring it up again, just search the old threads if you want to know, Can't tink many will want to regurgitate all this stuff again.

 

The only money for players will come from gate receipts unless we are lucky enough to offload about 20 of the current bunch for £100,000 each

 

I do read the vast majority of threads, I just really couldn't be bothered with the "Mess " one as I assumed it would just deteriorate into name calling as most of these threads usually do.

[trousers]

the Swiss will not simply Fed-Ex a brown paper bag across each week when someone asks for it

 

Bugger

[RonManager]

Like I keep saying, the Swiss are vey methodical, they will not simply Fed-Ex a brown paper bag across each week when someone asks for it,

 

I got mine this morning in the post

[dubai_phil]

Will we ever get to see them?

 

Well, you never know, decent investigative journalists or authors looking for a good story have been known to spend a year or two sticking shredded paper back together, or digging in dumpsters to see what gets thrown out in the trash. Also, there are some highly capable forensic data restoration companies around these days.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if there are a few copies floating around in strange places.

 

Also interesting that none of the 40 odd Sales Packs given out by Mark Fry have ever seen the light of day. They could have been interesting.

 

Just depends on the will-power and whether somebody wants to upset former old friends or if TL wants to say sorry in a constructive way.

[dubai_phil]

I got mine this morning in the post

 

Blimey - a wealthy TSW member - you're obviously living in 'Arry's old gaffe in Sandbanks

 

You did check the name on the label

 

ALLEGEDLY:cool:

[trousers]

Also interesting that none of the 40 odd Sales Packs given out by Mark Fry have ever seen the light of day. They could have been interesting.

 

I've got a scanner in my loft if you wanted to send me your copy for processing....

[dubai_phil]

I've got a scanner in my loft if you wanted to send me your copy for processing....

 

You won't be so flippant shortly

 

Cricket time

[RonManager]

Blimey - a wealthy TSW member - you're obviously living in 'Arry's old gaffe in Sandbanks

 

You did check the name on the label

 

ALLEGEDLY:cool:

 

It was some bloke with a sheepskin jacket and lots of nose hair - he said 'you ain't seen me, right?'

[sotonjoe]

I agree to an extent, but if we're struggling and AP is being denied funds to strenghten and we're maming a handsome profit I wouldn't be happy. NOT saying that is the case, just pointing out that we will not know the financials behind the club now, which is something we need to accept.

 

You wouldn't be happy, and many others wouldn't either, but it would be entirely ML's decision if he wanted to run the club like that. We would have no right to suggest he do otherwise. Being privately owned brings with it an entirely different set of practices than we were used to as a plc.