A Fan of Mr Burley....

[SaintMike]

Seems he is missed by one of the players anyway...

 

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football-news/scottish-football/scotland/2008/09/13/marek-saganowski-george-burley-will-work-wonders-for-scotland-86908-20735307/

[Wes Tender]

Our promotion hopes dashed by Billy Davis's Preston?

 

Really, really bad sloppy journalism!

[Saint Martini]

Apparently we lost against Preston North End in the playoff semi finals....

 

Damn, not quick enough

[TopGun]

What a load of tosh Craig Swan writes!

[sadoldgit]

Of course there are posters who have never played football and never managed a football club who know better than Saga....

 

Despite the fact that he has the best record of any Saints manager in my lieftime, he will be villified by many who need to blame someone because we have not got promoted yet.

 

One full season, aim the play offs, made the play offs. Any reason to take every opportunity to slag the bloke off?

 

There are others, such as Redknapp and Branfoot, far more deserving of scorn for the way they approached the job here. But we have to have our pantomine villians don't we, and Lowe and Burley fit the bill.

 

Burely had a tough job when he first arrived but did turn things round. Okay, last season he failed to find any consistancy, but if you lose players of the quality of Jones, Bale and Baird you are always going to be on the back foot - not helped by that ridiculous press release by Hone which virtually said that we had given up on promotion. Where is the splenn directed at him eh?

 

Burley did a job and failed to get us back up. Hanging offence? Apparently so to many despite the fact that there are lots of good managers who fail to achieve anything of note each year.

 

He did a great job at Ipswich and Hearts, gave us a season to remember the year before last and is now managing his national team...does that make him a failure or a useless manager? Apparenty so....go figure.

[Thedelldays]

Of course there are posters who have never played football and never managed a football club who know better than Saga....

 

Despite the fact that he has the best record of any Saints manager in my lieftime, he will be villified by many who need to blame someone because we have not got promoted yet.

 

One full season, aim the play offs, made the play offs. Any reason to take every opportunity to slag the bloke off?

 

There are others, such as Redknapp and Branfoot, far more deserving of scorn for the way they approached the job here. But we have to have our pantomine villians don't we, and Lowe and Burley fit the bill.

 

Burely had a tough job when he first arrived but did turn things round. Okay, last season he failed to find any consistancy, but if you lose players of the quality of Jones, Bale and Baird you are always going to be on the back foot - not helped by that ridiculous press release by Hone which virtually said that we had given up on promotion. Where is the splenn directed at him eh?

 

Burley did a job and failed to get us back up. Hanging offence? Apparently so to many despite the fact that there are lots of good managers who fail to achieve anything of note each year.

 

He did a great job at Ipswich and Hearts, gave us a season to remember the year before last and is now managing his national team...does that make him a failure or a useless manager? Apparenty so....go figure.

 

 

tough job...?

 

lol

 

if you think burley had the best record then you are mental...I know you will trot out stats etc but that is ********...

 

you are seriously deluded if you think burley was better for us than WGS!!!!!!!!!

 

also, would you call McLaren a success..after all, he did a better job than burley at club level and was selected for one of the coveted national jobs...??????

Edited 13 September, 2008 by Thedelldays

[washsaint]

sog......

 

Unfortunately GB's managerial track record is one of a great start followed by completely losing the plot. Something that happened here too.........in the play-off season he did well (having had more money than anyone else in the division) but then quickly ran out of ideas.

 

Not a great manager but not a completely terrible one either.

[lettuce]

I was delighted when Burley arrived at Saints, and I was delighted when Burley left Saints. I suspect I'm not the only person on here who that applies to.

[um pahars]

Despite the fact that he has the best record of any Saints manager in my lieftime

 

Well despite your moniker, I can only assume you're six years old.

 

You conveniently forget that the stats are all for games played in the second where for most of that period we were one of the "stronger" teams benefitting from the parachute payments.

 

He wasn't one of the best, nor was he one of the worst, but your insistence on holding him up as some uber manager is disturbing.

 

One full season, aim the play offs, made the play offs. Any reason to take every opportunity to slag the bloke off?

 

And I think you'll find most people were fairly fair in their assessments of Burley.

 

In his first six months he was given alot of slack as he was working through the debacle of Redknapp, Woodward, Clifford etc etc. This was his team building period.

 

The next season he got much respect for taking us to the play offs. However, against that it has to be said he was extremely well backed and had a decent period to settle in and get his team right.

 

However, last season undid any of his good work.

 

Burley's work on the pitch was not up to standard and more worryingly his attitude off the pitch was even worse. He may have suffered from losing some players, but the financial results also show he was still well supported.

 

He massively underperformed and in my opinion he was just wasn't bothered anymore.

 

If he hadn't walked, then I think he would have been sacked.

 

There are others, such as Redknapp and Branfoot, far more deserving of scorn for the way they approached the job here. But we have to have our pantomine villians don't we, and Lowe and Burley fit the bill.

 

Don't be such a drama queen!!!! "Eveyone's always having a go at my George and my Rupert" :smt091:smt091:smt091:smt089:smt089

 

I think you'll find Branfoot and Redknapp are regularly ripped apart on here. I contributed to a Branfoot was a **** thread about a week ago.

 

Hoddle & Dalek

 

Burley & SOG

 

Wigley & ????? (does Lowe post)

 

Branfoot & ???? (does Askham post)

[OldNick]

Well despite your moniker, I can only assume you're six years old.

 

You conveniently forget that the stats are all for games played in the second where for most of that period we were one of the "stronger" teams benefitting from the parachute payments.

 

He wasn't one of the best, nor was he one of the worst, but your insistence on holding him up as some uber manager is disturbing.

 

 

 

And I think you'll find most people were fairly fair in their assessments of Burley.

 

In his first six months he was given alot of slack as he was working through the debacle of Redknapp, Woodward, Clifford etc etc. This was his team building period.

 

The next season he got much respect for taking us to the play offs. However, against that it has to be said he was extremely well backed and had a decent period to settle in and get his team right.

 

However, last season undid any of his good work.

 

Burley's work on the pitch was not up to standard and more worryingly his attitude off the pitch was even worse. He may have suffered from losing some players, but the financial results also show he was still well supported.

 

He massively underperformed and in my opinion he was just wasn't bothered anymore.

 

If he hadn't walked, then I think he would have been sacked.

 

 

 

Don't be such a drama queen!!!! "Eveyone's always having a go at my George and my Rupert" :smt091:smt091:smt091:smt089:smt089

 

I think you'll find Branfoot and Redknapp are regularly ripped apart on here. I contributed to a Branfoot was a **** thread about a week ago.

 

Hoddle & Dalek

 

Burley & SOG

 

Wigley & ????? (does Lowe post)

 

Branfoot & ???? (does Askham post)

Not an unfair summary but the team that did get us to the play offs was ripped apart rather than being built upon.The real sickener for GB was KJ leaving on deadline day, he added so much to the team as well as scoring.

Another thing that eroded fans confidence in him was the constant taking up of his alleged drinking, something that has never been proved and whilst I know he does like a drink I also know the nonsense on here was not true.

We then had a campaign against certain players that didnt help the players or squads moral. I dont care what people say if the players feel wronged why should they care about giving it all for us. Last season we had JW, KD, JE, and others pilloried and that was always likely to upset the team. I know fans will say they are highly paid but some/a lot was unjust.

KD for example played no differently last season than this but fans have seen he is a good keeper and their preducies have been swept away.It is a mindset that grew and became chapter and verse when really it was somewhere in the middle.He did ok under the circumstances, he was never the best manager Saints have had IMO but he is a long long way from the worst.

[Danny]

Doesn't suggest to me that Saganowksi 'misses' Burley, but rather than he simply liked working under him when he (Saganoswki) first came here.

 

Results haven;t been as good since we got to the Play-offs, but for most of that time Burley was still the manager.

 

With the benefit of hindsight, it just looks to me that Burley simply lost interest and was just going through the motions. Whatever the catalyst for that was, we can only speculate.

[saint_ed]

Our dream of making an 'appearence' in the top flight. Does he not realise we were there since the Premiership was founded and long before that.

[PokingFun]

Doesn't suggest to me that Saganowksi 'misses' Burley, but rather than he simply liked working under him when he (Saganoswki) first came here.

 

Results haven;t been as good since we got to the Play-offs, but for most of that time Burley was still the manager.

 

With the benefit of hindsight, it just looks to me that Burley simply lost interest and was just going through the motions. Whatever the catalyst for that was, we can only speculate.

 

The catalyst for loss of interest was probably seeing god knows how much fighting and changing at board level, having to flog the players he likely wanted to build a team around.

 

When you have to sell three players for big money, it suggests you cannot do anything but replace those players with mediocrity in comparison as improving on them means spending more money than you got in for them.

 

At the end of the day GB is not a GREAT manager, because that is reserved for the likes of Fergie, Mourinho et al, but he is a decent manager given our status in the world of football.

 

I suspect he became disillusioned in the same way some of us people may do in our own jobs when things continually get unsettled.

 

GB is gone, and us fans have to move on bcause we cannot change history and the debate about whether he was good or bad simply depends on how realistic you want to be over our club's status.

[Bon Call Night]

Well despite your moniker, I can only assume you're six years old.

 

You conveniently forget that the stats are all for games played in the second where for most of that period we were one of the "stronger" teams benefitting from the parachute payments.

 

He wasn't one of the best, nor was he one of the worst, but your insistence on holding him up as some uber manager is disturbing.

 

 

 

And I think you'll find most people were fairly fair in their assessments of Burley.

 

In his first six months he was given alot of slack as he was working through the debacle of Redknapp, Woodward, Clifford etc etc. This was his team building period.

 

The next season he got much respect for taking us to the play offs. However, against that it has to be said he was extremely well backed and had a decent period to settle in and get his team right.

 

However, last season undid any of his good work.

 

Burley's work on the pitch was not up to standard and more worryingly his attitude off the pitch was even worse. He may have suffered from losing some players, but the financial results also show he was still well supported.

 

He massively underperformed and in my opinion he was just wasn't bothered anymore.

 

If he hadn't walked, then I think he would have been sacked.

 

 

 

Don't be such a drama queen!!!! "Eveyone's always having a go at my George and my Rupert" :smt091:smt091:smt091:smt089:smt089

 

I think you'll find Branfoot and Redknapp are regularly ripped apart on here. I contributed to a Branfoot was a **** thread about a week ago.

 

Hoddle & Dalek

 

Burley & SOG

 

Wigley & ????? (does Lowe post)

 

Branfoot & ???? (does Askham post)

 

You sum it up for me with Burley, the rumours about his drinking were too frequesnt, and some first hand tales as well from a few restauranteurs around Southampton as well.

 

For me the guy had lost the respect of the players and was merely going through the actions, he had by far the easiest part of the season and left us noweher in the league only looking like we were heading in one direction. Pearson tried to pick up a demotivated squad and again IMO failed and therefore I have no feeling positive or negative as to his departure.

 

But be assured had Burley stayed I am sure the season would have panned out exactly the same.

[OldNick]

You sum it up for me with Burley, the rumours about his drinking were too frequesnt, and some first hand tales as well from a few restauranteurs around Southampton as well.

 

I still wonder in this day and age how these events are said to have happened and nobody ever had a camera phone! I dont doubt he likes a drink but that his social time. A lot of us probably drink more than we should in our free time and still are able to work well the next day, bloody hell football is not played by nuns.

[alpine_saint]

Of course there are posters who have never played football and never managed a football club who know better than Saga....

 

Despite the fact that he has the best record of any Saints manager in my lieftime, he will be villified by many who need to blame someone because we have not got promoted yet.

 

One full season, aim the play offs, made the play offs. Any reason to take every opportunity to slag the bloke off?

 

There are others, such as Redknapp and Branfoot, far more deserving of scorn for the way they approached the job here. But we have to have our pantomine villians don't we, and Lowe and Burley fit the bill.

 

Burely had a tough job when he first arrived but did turn things round. Okay, last season he failed to find any consistancy, but if you lose players of the quality of Jones, Bale and Baird you are always going to be on the back foot - not helped by that ridiculous press release by Hone which virtually said that we had given up on promotion. Where is the splenn directed at him eh?

 

Burley did a job and failed to get us back up. Hanging offence? Apparently so to many despite the fact that there are lots of good managers who fail to achieve anything of note each year.

 

He did a great job at Ipswich and Hearts, gave us a season to remember the year before last and is now managing his national team...does that make him a failure or a useless manager? Apparenty so....go figure.

 

Wow one hour and 4 posts, and who appears to invest one of his precious 3 posts ???

[sadoldgit]

tough job...?

 

lol

 

if you think burley had the best record then you are mental...I know you will trot out stats etc but that is ********...

 

you are seriously deluded if you think burley was better for us than WGS!!!!!!!!!

 

also, would you call McLaren a success..after all, he did a better job than burley at club level and was selected for one of the coveted national jobs...??????

 

Burely had a better record than Strachan. I didn't say he was a better manager. Although I think that after Christmas Starchan was on the wane.

[sadoldgit]

I still wonder in this day and age how these events are said to have happened and nobody ever had a camera phone! I dont doubt he likes a drink but that his social time. A lot of us probably drink more than we should in our free time and still are able to work well the next day, bloody hell football is not played by nuns.

 

Clough was an alcholic, Ferguson drinks, I am sure a lot of managers do. There is still no hard evidence to back up the third party claims made against Burley.

 

I see Um Pahars has woken up. My point about Redknapp and Branfoot is that I think they did more damage to the club than Burley is supposed to have done but to read some of the stuff on here you would not think so. I fail to see how reaching the play offs in his only full season is seen as a failure? I am not obseesed with Burely, not do I think he was our best manager ever, but he was certainly far from the worst - again, something you would find hard to believe if you follow some posters on here.

 

I don't know how old you are UP, but your constant use of those stupid little smiley things make sme wonder. You and Alpine make a good team. You both miss the point by miles and turn things round in order to try and make your own points more substantial.

 

As you are so keen to dissect every word that people you don't like say, feel free to go back through all of my posts and find where is says that I think Burely was the best manager and Lowe the best Chairman/CEO. Off you go now and I shall be waiting.

 

My points has always been that these people have pluses and minusses but neither were, or are, as bad as some of you like to make out. You might not like the stats, but they speak for themselves. Burley might have failled to take us up, but it took LM several seasons and he had the likes of Channon and Osgood to call on in the second division. Ted Bates had the likes of Martin Chivers and Terry Paine. If want to compair like with like let's do it. None of the players that Burley had to pick from came close to that calibre.

 

All any manager can do is win the games he has with the players he has at his disposal. The simple facts are that George Burley did that more successfully than any one else here. If you feel that makes him useless or a failure, fine.

 

Guess what, I don't cry over the Lowe and Burley debate, although I fail to understand why some people need to have to blame one individual for everything when there are 11 players out there each week who are actually responsible for our success or failure. The only time I have over cried over football was when West Germany knocked us out of the 1970 World Cup.

 

So then Steve and Geoff, off you go and come back with some hard evidence to back up your claims. What you are looking for are posts where I say that Rupert Lowe was the best ever Chairman/CEO and Burely the best ever manager.

[dubai_phil]

Burley started well, no doubt.

 

However his core football philosophy seemed to be to pass the ball through the middle of a defence. The ability to flow freely through the middle worked against teams with bigger static Cb's but when we were faced with pace it never seemed to work. It wasn't his ONLY tactic but it would be interesting to see the stats for passes vs crosses.

 

After the playoff season, we ALL know what went wrong but we all just deny it.

 

The Execs went to war with the shareholders and the fans. They made an announcement that the club was fooked on the eve of an important game and morale NEVER recovered. Our Christmas period last year was a shambles, we were looking to "push on" and we scraped draws and lost games we should have won.

 

We keep losing sight of that disaster because of the politics that it raises and the aftermath.

 

Now analyse it how you like, but Burley must have known that he would not get support in January "to push on", his "boss" got effectively fired and the drinking revelations all came around the same time. In many ways, his lifestyle of staying in the Grand Harbour is as much to blame as the events outside him - what the hell else CAN you do stuck in that place 4 or 5 nights a week.

 

The debating point whether Burley was a good or bad manager really hinges around the events after that announcement, and whatever really happened to de-motivate him we'll never know. But he was never going to resign from "a good salary", we weren't going to fire him BUT he HAD stayed past his sell by date.

 

IF he had been poached or fired "as a cost saving" we would have held him in much better regard. His mistake was simply the timing of his departure. from HIS point of view he played his cards spot on, so I doubt he cares much what we think. How many of us have gone through the motions at work for a while and then moved on to better things at the right time?

 

Oh, and on the camera phone subject = how fast can YOU get a phone out of a pocket, press two buttons to unlock the keypad, fire up the camera feature AND take a photo of the back of a head shuffling into an elevator..... OR are you one of the total MONGS who believe it is cool or funny to go up to people in a public place and ram your phone in their face. Perhaps, the reason tha he was not photographed is that he went to "nice" restaurants populated by "nice" people or sat in the same hotel every night and the people in the same location weren't actually NoTW readers or Saints fans every night?

[OldNick]

Burley started well, no doubt.

 

However his core football philosophy seemed to be to pass the ball through the middle of a defence. The ability to flow freely through the middle worked against teams with bigger static Cb's but when we were faced with pace it never seemed to work. It wasn't his ONLY tactic but it would be interesting to see the stats for passes vs crosses.

 

After the playoff season, we ALL know what went wrong but we all just deny it.

 

The Execs went to war with the shareholders and the fans. They made an announcement that the club was fooked on the eve of an important game and morale NEVER recovered. Our Christmas period last year was a shambles, we were looking to "push on" and we scraped draws and lost games we should have won.

 

We keep losing sight of that disaster because of the politics that it raises and the aftermath.

 

Now analyse it how you like, but Burley must have known that he would not get support in January "to push on", his "boss" got effectively fired and the drinking revelations all came around the same time. In many ways, his lifestyle of staying in the Grand Harbour is as much to blame as the events outside him - what the hell else CAN you do stuck in that place 4 or 5 nights a week.

 

The debating point whether Burley was a good or bad manager really hinges around the events after that announcement, and whatever really happened to de-motivate him we'll never know. But he was never going to resign from "a good salary", we weren't going to fire him BUT he HAD stayed past his sell by date.

 

IF he had been poached or fired "as a cost saving" we would have held him in much better regard. His mistake was simply the timing of his departure. from HIS point of view he played his cards spot on, so I doubt he cares much what we think. How many of us have gone through the motions at work for a while and then moved on to better things at the right time?

 

Oh, and on the camera phone subject = how fast can YOU get a phone out of a pocket, press two buttons to unlock the keypad, fire up the camera feature AND take a photo of the back of a head shuffling into an elevator..... OR are you one of the total MONGS who believe it is cool or funny to go up to people in a public place and ram your phone in their face. Perhaps, the reason tha he was not photographed is that he went to "nice" restaurants populated by "nice" people or sat in the same hotel every night and the people in the same location weren't actually NoTW readers or Saints fans every night?

A very valid post until the camera phone thing. I agree if he is staggering into a elevator it would be dfficult, but if he was seen laid out drunk in a bar it would be easy.Who ever said he didnt get bladdered now and again. In social time do we expect people not to have a social life.I know a lot of people who run very successful businesses and drink well into the night but are at work the next morning.It is not perfect but it happens.In Dubai I assume it is not so easy to do such things but I suspect when in England you would know such people.

[Professor]

One person's 'charge to the playoffs' is another person's 'fluking sixth place', but either way, Saga doesn't mention what happened next. Maybe Saga has always had respect for his Teachers.......................................................................................and Bells, and Dewars,and Famous Grouse......

[um pahars]

My point about Redknapp and Branfoot is that I think they did more damage to the club than Burley is supposed to have done but to read some of the stuff on here you would not think so

 

Give it up you old woman.:smt075

 

Burley gets some stick on here for his dismal performance and attitude last season, before he walked out.

 

And in many people's opinion he was deserving of it, because his performances, attitude and demeanour were shocking after the success the season before.

 

But people's criticisms or rants aren't just restricted to your hero Burley (nor your saviour Lowe). Instead you will find that Branfoot and Redknapp also come in for a fair share of stick on here (mostly justified).

 

Maybe because of your blinkered love for all things George (and Rupert) you miss the various Branfoot, Redknapp and others posts :rolleyes: . Have a look here from a week or so ago:

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=38420&highlight=branfoot#post38420

 

So it's not a Burley witch hunt, just some supporters voicing their displeasure at being let down by their manager.

 

HTH

[OldNick]

Give it up you old woman.:smt075

 

Burley gets some stick on here for his dismal performance and attitude last season, before he walked out.

 

And in many people's opinion he was deserving of it, because his performances, attitude and demeanour were shocking after the success the season before.

 

But people's criticisms or rants aren't just restricted to your hero Burley (nor your saviour Lowe). Instead you will find that Branfoot and Redknapp also come in for a fair share of stick on here (mostly justified).

 

Maybe because of your blinkered love for all things George (and Rupert) you miss the various Branfoot, Redknapp and others posts :rolleyes: . Have a look here from a week or so ago:

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=38420&highlight=branfoot#post38420

 

So it's not a Burley witch hunt, just some supporters voicing their displeasure at being let down by their manager.

 

HTH

UMP why do you have to rely on the rolley eye emotions etc to try and reinforce your posts? It is only a distraction to some of your valid posts, and I thought you were above the 'old woman' type of comment as your sarcasm is normally enough

[dubai_phil]

A very valid post until the camera phone thing. I agree if he is staggering into a elevator it would be dfficult, but if he was seen laid out drunk in a bar it would be easy.Who ever said he didnt get bladdered now and again. In social time do we expect people not to have a social life.I know a lot of people who run very successful businesses and drink well into the night but are at work the next morning.It is not perfect but it happens.In Dubai I assume it is not so easy to do such things but I suspect when in England you would know such people.

 

Trust me on the camera phone thing, would NOT have done it in the bar, but in the lobby was fair game.

But again, how many people have posted photos on here of the players? - Claus with booze & fags in hand at Jumpin Jacks - everyone seemed to have met him and the players there, but I cannot recall a photo of someone passed out on the floor either. Those that have appeared, have been posed and with smiles for the camera. On the night in question, nobody in their right mind would have asked such a thing.

 

There is also a difference between being laid out in a bar which as I recall was NEVER posted OR alleged, and shuffling/staggering to bed at 11:14pm the evening before taking the first team for training. (In his defence it WAS early, in his prosecution, it was a heck of a state to be in so early)

 

Again the point about having a drink is valid and trust me it can be done everywhere including Dubai, BUT we are talking Professional SPORT here, we are discussing LEADERSHIP of "Highly Tuned Athletes" who are supposed to have their diets and lifestyle managed so as to give 110% (sic) every week.

 

Bleary eyed at a sales meeting is one thing (in fact it is almost compulsory) but at training of a Premiership wannabe club is NOT the sort of role model that inspired professional players surely? (Cue Luggy & his Sandwich comments)

 

Players, fans and Managers SHOULD have a social life and SHOULD be free from interference to let off steam. However, most professional clubs have rules on WHEN this is appropriate, (like the evening or day after a game when there is no training) and when it is not.

[um pahars]

In many ways, his lifestyle of staying in the Grand Harbour is as much to blame as the events outside him - what the hell else CAN you do stuck in that place 4 or 5 nights a week.

 

Even though his first full season was a reasonable success, I never ever took to the idea of our manager only lodging down here.

 

It just didn't send out the right message and I do have to question as to whether it was good for Burley's sanity, because being couped up in a hotel room, no matter how swish, would drive any sane man slightly mad.

[dubai_phil]

Even though his first full season was a reasonable success, I never ever took to the idea of our manager only lodging down here.

 

It just didn't send out the right message and I do have to question as to whether it was good for Burley's sanity, because being couped up in a hotel room, no matter how swish, would drive any sane man slightly mad.

 

From someone who used to spend around 100 nights a year in hotels - totally agree.

Unless of course he WANTED to be away from the wife:-))

 

The first half of my favourite business mantra from Steven Covey - seek first to understand - makes me look at the whole Burley issue and try to understand why it all seemed to go flat.

 

We'll never really know and will continue to debate it for years the way we do about Luggy & WGS.

 

I simply think there was a co-inciding of a number of circumstances over a period of time, this was certainly one of them.

 

I would have been gutted if Burley had left straight after the playoff defeat. The world moves on and things changed, his quality of output changed and in the end I was ecstatic that we managed to get compensation for him when he left.

 

I won't argue that he was good or bad as it isn't a black & white issue, simply like everything else in business and football - Flint

 

- oops sorry Grey

[OldNick]

Trust me on the camera phone thing, would NOT have done it in the bar, but in the lobby was fair game.

But again, how many people have posted photos on here of the players? - Claus with booze & fags in hand at Jumpin Jacks - everyone seemed to have met him and the players there, but I cannot recall a photo of someone passed out on the floor either. Those that have appeared, have been posed and with smiles for the camera. On the night in question, nobody in their right mind would have asked such a thing.

 

There is also a difference between being laid out in a bar which as I recall was NEVER posted OR alleged, and shuffling/staggering to bed at 11:14pm the evening before taking the first team for training. (In his defence it WAS early, in his prosecution, it was a heck of a state to be in so early)

 

Again the point about having a drink is valid and trust me it can be done everywhere including Dubai, BUT we are talking Professional SPORT here, we are discussing LEADERSHIP of "Highly Tuned Athletes" who are supposed to have their diets and lifestyle managed so as to give 110% (sic) every week.

 

Bleary eyed at a sales meeting is one thing (in fact it is almost compulsory) but at training of a Premiership wannabe club is NOT the sort of role model that inspired professional players surely? (Cue Luggy & his Sandwich comments)

 

Players, fans and Managers SHOULD have a social life and SHOULD be free from interference to let off steam. However, most professional clubs have rules on WHEN this is appropriate, (like the evening or day after a game when there is no training) and when it is not.

Phil all reasonable, and something i would rather not had happened. May I add about the day before training not everyday does the manager go onto the training ground although I do agree GB was a very hands on coach. Do you think that a company director getting bladdered is ok in professional business who is making large financial decisions is ok . Surely double standards, they are both responsible for peoples living.

[Bon Call Night]

Clough was an alcholic, Ferguson drinks, I am sure a lot of managers do. There is still no hard evidence to back up the third party claims made against Burley.

 

I see Um Pahars has woken up. My point about Redknapp and Branfoot is that I think they did more damage to the club than Burley is supposed to have done but to read some of the stuff on here you would not think so. I fail to see how reaching the play offs in his only full season is seen as a failure? I am not obseesed with Burely, not do I think he was our best manager ever, but he was certainly far from the worst - again, something you would find hard to believe if you follow some posters on here.

 

I don't know how old you are UP, but your constant use of those stupid little smiley things make sme wonder. You and Alpine make a good team. You both miss the point by miles and turn things round in order to try and make your own points more substantial.

 

As you are so keen to dissect every word that people you don't like say, feel free to go back through all of my posts and find where is says that I think Burely was the best manager and Lowe the best Chairman/CEO. Off you go now and I shall be waiting.

 

My points has always been that these people have pluses and minusses but neither were, or are, as bad as some of you like to make out. You might not like the stats, but they speak for themselves. Burley might have failled to take us up, but it took LM several seasons and he had the likes of Channon and Osgood to call on in the second division. Ted Bates had the likes of Martin Chivers and Terry Paine. If want to compair like with like let's do it. None of the players that Burley had to pick from came close to that calibre.

 

All any manager can do is win the games he has with the players he has at his disposal. The simple facts are that George Burley did that more successfully than any one else here. If you feel that makes him useless or a failure, fine.

 

Guess what, I don't cry over the Lowe and Burley debate, although I fail to understand why some people need to have to blame one individual for everything when there are 11 players out there each week who are actually responsible for our success or failure. The only time I have over cried over football was when West Germany knocked us out of the 1970 World Cup.

 

So then Steve and Geoff, off you go and come back with some hard evidence to back up your claims. What you are looking for are posts where I say that Rupert Lowe was the best ever Chairman/CEO and Burely the best ever manager.

 

I am sorry, there is plenty as I said. Restaurants in the high street and Oxford Street having their doors knocked on after he had left La Margherita at town quay at 2 or 3 in the morning.

 

As for their not being pictorial evidence I am sure there is.

 

To pick up on Nickh's point about drinking, you are right some of us have three or four beers of an evening and function quite well the next day, an alcoholic has a lot more than that and cannot function the next day until he has some more. I am not saying he is an alcoholic.

 

There are also those who do have a bit more than they should and it does affect them, more days off, more off days etc.

 

The difference is SOG Clough worked in a different era when footballers drank a lot more than they do now and lot more often it was the norm. Now top footballers are expected to not drink at all when training or playing which leaves a Saturday nioght after the game and the day off the next day. Ferguson works for the biggest club in the orld and has a huge training/coaching team behind him, they also have the money to replace anybody who loses respect for him. REMEMBER BECKHAM???

 

Yes I am sure others do drink but probably in moderation and in private.

 

The fact that you cite the like of LM and Bates failing to gain promotion with the players they had still does not compare to todays world. In Bates era there was a maximum wage so it was the stature of the club that counted and the likliness of playing first team football that swayed players team choices, in McMenemy's era Osgood cost us £275,000, there record transfer fee that season was £350,000 for Latchford to Everton, so just with some straight line numbers a similar player today (england CF 28 years old, not old in todays game) Emile Heskey, Owen, Crouch for example, what do you think they would cost? Do you think we could afford them??

 

The fact is if Burley failed it was not because he had a lack of money in this division, he had the remnants of a Premiership experienced squad, he had £7m to spend and a lot more the next season, and he bought a whole new team so it was his choice through and through. We scraped into the play-offs with a lot of results going our way in the final few games having been out of it with three games to go, we then failed to take steps to nullify a one dimensional Derby side until the return leg at Pride Park and then failed on penalties. To me that shrieks of failure to prepare properly for the biggest two games of the season.

 

Then the follwing season, he lost Bale, Jones, Baird - we all know how good Baird was, he can barely get in a relegation side in the Premiership and one season as an above average player for us did not make him good. Bale was a good player no doubt, and not a real surprise that he went so why not plan for that rather than moan about it (Man Utd look like they may lose Ronaldo, they have already replaced him with Berbatov) that is football. Jones was the same, and lets face it he hardly set the world alight for us although no doubt another season and he might have.

 

Yes we need stability, but to me Burley was a man without a plan, a plan to replace the better players that would always move on, a plan for the biggest games, a plan for building a squad and a plan for the future.

 

Right now I am terrified by the gamble taken by Lowe with JP and co, but I actually feel everything is planned. We had to reduce the wage bill and have done so, we need to rasie money from player sales and have struggled to do so. But and the singular biggest thing, is that we have purchased players (whether it be Lowe or JP and that is a whole other debate) to a plan.

 

We have bought cover in at CH in Wotton and Schneiderlin who can also play elsewhere, we have Lancashire and Racine from the kids to play alongside them and learn, we have the experience in Svensson and Perry.

 

All of the players that have come in have played in the first team, ie we have bought to improve the squad, not increase it's size. We have invested in talented yougsters because we know we have to do some trading over the next 2-3 years to balance the books. JP has a style fo football he wants us to play, and barring the 9'6" mobile porter-cabin that Blackpool had up front he has got the tactics pretty much spot on for each game. Even the Blackpool game we should have won 4-3 if Lallana had missed the players on the line.

 

So continually hark back to a past era which is like comparing cars from the 1920's and todays models, technology or in this case finances have moved on and it is a different scenario altogether.

 

Burley did do well, but then again given more money than any other manager in the league was a play-off place target strong enough or should we have been striving for a bit more? You don't see Chelsea happy with Champions League spot when they have spent £500m do you?

 

For me Burley underachieved, lost focus, lost the players and damn near got us relegated. Please do not tell me the position we were in when he left, look at the results and against who they were we failed to beat any team n the bottom three that season under Burley, is that the mark of a team heading upwards?

 

The real question is how long do you stand by someone who is failing, despite all the support he has asked for being given?

[alpine_saint]

I am sorry, there is plenty as I said. Restaurants in the high street and Oxford Street having their doors knocked on after he had left La Margherita at town quay at 2 or 3 in the morning.

 

As for their not being pictorial evidence I am sure there is.

 

To pick up on Nickh's point about drinking, you are right some of us have three or four beers of an evening and function quite well the next day, an alcoholic has a lot more than that and cannot function the next day until he has some more. I am not saying he is an alcoholic.

 

There are also those who do have a bit more than they should and it does affect them, more days off, more off days etc.

 

The difference is SOG Clough worked in a different era when footballers drank a lot more than they do now and lot more often it was the norm. Now top footballers are expected to not drink at all when training or playing which leaves a Saturday nioght after the game and the day off the next day. Ferguson works for the biggest club in the orld and has a huge training/coaching team behind him, they also have the money to replace anybody who loses respect for him. REMEMBER BECKHAM???

 

Yes I am sure others do drink but probably in moderation and in private.

 

The fact that you cite the like of LM and Bates failing to gain promotion with the players they had still does not compare to todays world. In Bates era there was a maximum wage so it was the stature of the club that counted and the likliness of playing first team football that swayed players team choices, in McMenemy's era Osgood cost us £275,000, there record transfer fee that season was £350,000 for Latchford to Everton, so just with some straight line numbers a similar player today (england CF 28 years old, not old in todays game) Emile Heskey, Owen, Crouch for example, what do you think they would cost? Do you think we could afford them??

 

The fact is if Burley failed it was not because he had a lack of money in this division, he had the remnants of a Premiership experienced squad, he had £7m to spend and a lot more the next season, and he bought a whole new team so it was his choice through and through. We scraped into the play-offs with a lot of results going our way in the final few games having been out of it with three games to go, we then failed to take steps to nullify a one dimensional Derby side until the return leg at Pride Park and then failed on penalties. To me that shrieks of failure to prepare properly for the biggest two games of the season.

 

Then the follwing season, he lost Bale, Jones, Baird - we all know how good Baird was, he can barely get in a relegation side in the Premiership and one season as an above average player for us did not make him good. Bale was a good player no doubt, and not a real surprise that he went so why not plan for that rather than moan about it (Man Utd look like they may lose Ronaldo, they have already replaced him with Berbatov) that is football. Jones was the same, and lets face it he hardly set the world alight for us although no doubt another season and he might have.

 

Yes we need stability, but to me Burley was a man without a plan, a plan to replace the better players that would always move on, a plan for the biggest games, a plan for building a squad and a plan for the future.

 

Right now I am terrified by the gamble taken by Lowe with JP and co, but I actually feel everything is planned. We had to reduce the wage bill and have done so, we need to rasie money from player sales and have struggled to do so. But and the singular biggest thing, is that we have purchased players (whether it be Lowe or JP and that is a whole other debate) to a plan.

 

We have bought cover in at CH in Wotton and Schneiderlin who can also play elsewhere, we have Lancashire and Racine from the kids to play alongside them and learn, we have the experience in Svensson and Perry.

 

All of the players that have come in have played in the first team, ie we have bought to improve the squad, not increase it's size. We have invested in talented yougsters because we know we have to do some trading over the next 2-3 years to balance the books. JP has a style fo football he wants us to play, and barring the 9'6" mobile porter-cabin that Blackpool had up front he has got the tactics pretty much spot on for each game. Even the Blackpool game we should have won 4-3 if Lallana had missed the players on the line.

 

So continually hark back to a past era which is like comparing cars from the 1920's and todays models, technology or in this case finances have moved on and it is a different scenario altogether.

 

Burley did do well, but then again given more money than any other manager in the league was a play-off place target strong enough or should we have been striving for a bit more? You don't see Chelsea happy with Champions League spot when they have spent £500m do you?

 

For me Burley underachieved, lost focus, lost the players and damn near got us relegated. Please do not tell me the position we were in when he left, look at the results and against who they were we failed to beat any team n the bottom three that season under Burley, is that the mark of a team heading upwards?

 

The real question is how long do you stand by someone who is failing, despite all the support he has asked for being given?

 

Excellent post, BCN.

[dubai_phil]

Phil all reasonable, and something i would rather not had happened. May I add about the day before training not everyday does the manager go onto the training ground although I do agree GB was a very hands on coach. Do you think that a company director getting bladdered is ok in professional business who is making large financial decisions is ok . Surely double standards, they are both responsible for peoples living.

 

I didn't say it was alright for a company executive to be bladdered.

Getting bladdered at a sales meeting is often a team building event involving work colleagues. That is somewhat different to running say an XL type group and being bladdered (which may explain why they seemed to make so many bad decisions). I also didn't say it was about decision making processes being affected, but I did indicate that these things have a time and a place.

 

I said simply that as a leader or role model especially in professional sport it is wrong, expecially where an extra 1% of performance, a quarter second faster reaction time, an extra inch of reach can make the difference between success and failure .

[John B]

Of course there are posters who have never played football and never managed a football club who know better than Saga....

 

Despite the fact that he has the best record of any Saints manager in my lieftime, he will be villified by many who need to blame someone because we have not got promoted yet.

 

One full season, aim the play offs, made the play offs. Any reason to take every opportunity to slag the bloke off?

 

There are others, such as Redknapp and Branfoot, far more deserving of scorn for the way they approached the job here. But we have to have our pantomine villians don't we, and Lowe and Burley fit the bill.

 

Burely had a tough job when he first arrived but did turn things round. Okay, last season he failed to find any consistancy, but if you lose players of the quality of Jones, Bale and Baird you are always going to be on the back foot - not helped by that ridiculous press release by Hone which virtually said that we had given up on promotion. Where is the splenn directed at him eh?

 

Burley did a job and failed to get us back up. Hanging offence? Apparently so to many despite the fact that there are lots of good managers who fail to achieve anything of note each year.

 

He did a great job at Ipswich and Hearts, gave us a season to remember the year before last and is now managing his national team...does that make him a failure or a useless manager? Apparenty so....go figure.

 

Burley was ultimately a failure at both Southampton and Ipswich because of his ability to spend loads of dosh on underachieving players.

[alpine_saint]

I am frankly agog at Saga's comments, considering the way he was treated in the first half of last season.

 

I can only assume this is a re-hash of an old interview, from somewhen between Saga coming on loan for Saints and the summer when we had just missed the play-off final.

[sadoldgit]

I am sorry, there is plenty as I said. Restaurants in the high street and Oxford Street having their doors knocked on after he had left La Margherita at town quay at 2 or 3 in the morning.

 

As for their not being pictorial evidence I am sure there is.

 

To pick up on Nickh's point about drinking, you are right some of us have three or four beers of an evening and function quite well the next day, an alcoholic has a lot more than that and cannot function the next day until he has some more. I am not saying he is an alcoholic.

 

There are also those who do have a bit more than they should and it does affect them, more days off, more off days etc.

 

The difference is SOG Clough worked in a different era when footballers drank a lot more than they do now and lot more often it was the norm. Now top footballers are expected to not drink at all when training or playing which leaves a Saturday nioght after the game and the day off the next day. Ferguson works for the biggest club in the orld and has a huge training/coaching team behind him, they also have the money to replace anybody who loses respect for him. REMEMBER BECKHAM???

 

Yes I am sure others do drink but probably in moderation and in private.

 

The fact that you cite the like of LM and Bates failing to gain promotion with the players they had still does not compare to todays world. In Bates era there was a maximum wage so it was the stature of the club that counted and the likliness of playing first team football that swayed players team choices, in McMenemy's era Osgood cost us £275,000, there record transfer fee that season was £350,000 for Latchford to Everton, so just with some straight line numbers a similar player today (england CF 28 years old, not old in todays game) Emile Heskey, Owen, Crouch for example, what do you think they would cost? Do you think we could afford them??

 

The fact is if Burley failed it was not because he had a lack of money in this division, he had the remnants of a Premiership experienced squad, he had £7m to spend and a lot more the next season, and he bought a whole new team so it was his choice through and through. We scraped into the play-offs with a lot of results going our way in the final few games having been out of it with three games to go, we then failed to take steps to nullify a one dimensional Derby side until the return leg at Pride Park and then failed on penalties. To me that shrieks of failure to prepare properly for the biggest two games of the season.

 

Then the follwing season, he lost Bale, Jones, Baird - we all know how good Baird was, he can barely get in a relegation side in the Premiership and one season as an above average player for us did not make him good. Bale was a good player no doubt, and not a real surprise that he went so why not plan for that rather than moan about it (Man Utd look like they may lose Ronaldo, they have already replaced him with Berbatov) that is football. Jones was the same, and lets face it he hardly set the world alight for us although no doubt another season and he might have.

 

Yes we need stability, but to me Burley was a man without a plan, a plan to replace the better players that would always move on, a plan for the biggest games, a plan for building a squad and a plan for the future.

 

Right now I am terrified by the gamble taken by Lowe with JP and co, but I actually feel everything is planned. We had to reduce the wage bill and have done so, we need to rasie money from player sales and have struggled to do so. But and the singular biggest thing, is that we have purchased players (whether it be Lowe or JP and that is a whole other debate) to a plan.

 

We have bought cover in at CH in Wotton and Schneiderlin who can also play elsewhere, we have Lancashire and Racine from the kids to play alongside them and learn, we have the experience in Svensson and Perry.

 

All of the players that have come in have played in the first team, ie we have bought to improve the squad, not increase it's size. We have invested in talented yougsters because we know we have to do some trading over the next 2-3 years to balance the books. JP has a style fo football he wants us to play, and barring the 9'6" mobile porter-cabin that Blackpool had up front he has got the tactics pretty much spot on for each game. Even the Blackpool game we should have won 4-3 if Lallana had missed the players on the line.

 

So continually hark back to a past era which is like comparing cars from the 1920's and todays models, technology or in this case finances have moved on and it is a different scenario altogether.

 

Burley did do well, but then again given more money than any other manager in the league was a play-off place target strong enough or should we have been striving for a bit more? You don't see Chelsea happy with Champions League spot when they have spent £500m do you?

 

For me Burley underachieved, lost focus, lost the players and damn near got us relegated. Please do not tell me the position we were in when he left, look at the results and against who they were we failed to beat any team n the bottom three that season under Burley, is that the mark of a team heading upwards?

 

The real question is how long do you stand by someone who is failing, despite all the support he has asked for being given?

 

How long to you stand by anybody. You are rigyt, our most successful managers held their posts through thick and thin and were given a chance over a long period of time. Burely has been written off as a failure after one full season? It is all instant success or the sack nowdays. I am not saying it is right or wrong, just interesting that our most successful managers were given support even if they had a poor season or two.

 

There is precious little time now to develop a team, if you don't do it in the summer transfer window and get it right you are pretty much stuffed for the season. Managers are constantly waiting to be replaced, even after a handful of games. Who can blame them for not uprooting their families and moving them across country when they could be out of a job any time.

 

Yes I do hark but to old days, that is because I think those days were better and more condusive to building something.

 

It is well know that both Ferguson and Howard Kendall were on the verge of the sack before both taking their clubs to great success. It goes to show that things can be turned around, even if us fans think otherwise.

 

At what point do you give up and try something new? It might be just at the point when that particular manager starts to get it right.

 

It is like on here, some posters think, if you actually try and get some balance going, that you have a love affair with these people??? I don't think that Lowe or Burely were the "disasters" that some people would have us believe and somehow I am having a love affair with them, LOL.

 

I point out that Redknapp and Branfoot were far more deserving of the scorn rather than Lowe and Burley but a certain poster completely misses the point and starts with the name calling (very mature Steve).

 

There are no guarantees in football. Chelsea have spent a fortune in order to win the European Championship and have failed so far. Who'd have thought England would turn on a performance like that against Croatia after recent performances? Things can chaneg in a moment yet some fans throw their toys out of the prame if we don't become world beaters overnight? George Burley is written of as a failure when, in one full season, he achieved his target (and I get accussed of loving him when I poin this out). One minute our young inexperienced team are hailed as the new Holland, the next failures because they lost to Blackpool.

 

It is funny, but the ones who come on and slag others off most often are the ones who have ended up with egg on their faces (still think the Wilde Bunch were worthy of your unqualified support Steve?).

[OldNick]

 

 

We have bought cover in at CH in Wotton and Schneiderlin who can also play elsewhere, we have Lancashire and Racine from the kids to play alongside them and learn, we have the experience in Svensson and Perry.

 

I agree but isnt it strange that it is ok to have these contingencies under some management but when GB doubled up players positions it was wrong. To me it seems different mindsets to different people.