Thedelldays Posted 16 September, 2008 Share Posted 16 September, 2008 "we will walk this league" sort of throw away comment.. I mean, regardless of the age, style of play, we are already bottom of the league... how on earth could that be enjoyable..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
team-saint Posted 16 September, 2008 Share Posted 16 September, 2008 game in hand... i see hope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_Porter Posted 16 September, 2008 Share Posted 16 September, 2008 I find it enjoyable. Then again I found most of last season enjoyable. The results will come, no need to worry after 5 games imo. As for being bottom of the league, I couldn't really give a toss where we are after 5 games. Sure everyone would rather be towards the top but it's only September. EDIT: Spurs are bottom and Hull are in a Champions league spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amesbury Saint Posted 16 September, 2008 Share Posted 16 September, 2008 As for being bottom of the league, I couldn't really give a toss where we are after 5 games. Sure everyone would rather be towards the top but it's only September. I remember thinking the same in our last season in the premiership.... only ever a win away from safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjphilsaint Posted 16 September, 2008 Share Posted 16 September, 2008 But isn't it a tad worrying that we used to be a side that was always languishing around the nether regions of the Prem and now it would appear we are the sort of club that will languish around the nether regions of CC? How far do we need to go to find our true level.. I honestly do not know our true level... only 5 games gone not worry (glass half full) or bottom and only 5 games gone (glass half empty). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 16 September, 2008 Share Posted 16 September, 2008 "we will walk this league" sort of throw away comment.. I mean, regardless of the age, style of play, we are already bottom of the league... how on earth could that be enjoyable..? because I like watching good football and we have played more in the two Bham games than we did in the last half of last season. Won one easily, lost one deseredly but still played ok at times and just edged out of the other after playing some great football and being on top for most of the game. Of course it would be better to win, but last season we played poorly, boringly lackig effort and pace at times and lost. This is a young team and its rekindled my enthusiasm seeing how they develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 16 September, 2008 Share Posted 16 September, 2008 I find it enjoyable. Then again I found most of last season enjoyable. The results will come, no need to worry after 5 games imo. As for being bottom of the league, I couldn't really give a toss where we are after 5 games. Sure everyone would rather be towards the top but it's only September. EDIT: Spurs are bottom and Hull are in a Champions league spot. as just mentioned in other thread -Man U are relegation zone bar goal difference! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_Porter Posted 16 September, 2008 Share Posted 16 September, 2008 But isn't it a tad worrying that we used to be a side that was always languishing around the nether regions of the Prem and now it would appear we are the sort of club that will languish around the nether regions of CC? How far do we need to go to find our true level.. I honestly do not know our true level... only 5 games gone not worry (glass half full) or bottom and only 5 games gone (glass half empty). That's all a fair point but it's got nothing to do with wether people are enjoying watching Saints and the way we're playing with Lallana, Morgan and co running the games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 16 September, 2008 Author Share Posted 16 September, 2008 as just mentioned in other thread -Man U are relegation zone bar goal difference! brilliant... they are european and domestic champions..we survived relegation on the last day.. who should be more worried.. I cannont believe some will clutch at straws this much...:smt081 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 16 September, 2008 Share Posted 16 September, 2008 no but follow the logic -have they given up on the league title which is even harder to win etc -no. It is concerning, but the performances give hope and it is very early days. Rarely is relegation or promotion clear until new year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 16 September, 2008 Author Share Posted 16 September, 2008 no but follow the logic -have they given up on the league title which is even harder to win etc -no. It is concerning, but the performances give hope and it is very early days. Rarely is relegation or promotion clear until new year. really? derby last year anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 16 September, 2008 Share Posted 16 September, 2008 and how many examples of the opposite do you want, teams clear at both ends of table and changing form. Early days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 16 September, 2008 Author Share Posted 16 September, 2008 and how many examples of the opposite do you want, teams clear at both ends of table and changing form. Early days. of course...but we are in the poo and already in a "big week" with the two games coming up... and we look terrible at the back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjphilsaint Posted 16 September, 2008 Share Posted 16 September, 2008 That's all a fair point but it's got nothing to do with wether people are enjoying watching Saints and the way we're playing with Lallana, Morgan and co running the games. No it isnt. This seems to be a head or heart matter. personally i think we are lightweight and despite Lallana & Morgan we rarely have that cutting edge do we? IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjphilsaint Posted 16 September, 2008 Share Posted 16 September, 2008 There sees to me little point looking for trends from other teams be they Man U or anyone else, we are Saints and lets face it that brings with it it's own unique set of problems on and off the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 16 September, 2008 Share Posted 16 September, 2008 as just mentioned in other thread -Man U are relegation zone bar goal difference! I've tried hard but I can find absolutely nothing in common between us and Man U Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 16 September, 2008 Share Posted 16 September, 2008 I've tried hard but I can find absolutely nothing in common between us and Man U The green grass of home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 16 September, 2008 Share Posted 16 September, 2008 I've tried hard but I can find absolutely nothing in common between us and Man U not won many games yet, and playing each other in champions league final 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbletch Posted 16 September, 2008 Share Posted 16 September, 2008 "we will walk this league" sort of throw away comment.. I mean, regardless of the age, style of play, we are already bottom of the league... how on earth could that be enjoyable..? I guess for me it's about expectation. With my expectation lowered, I can enjoy the footy more. Where in the league did you expect a team of 19/20 year olds to be? I expected and expect us to struggle and if I'm seeing commitment and talent then I'm OK with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjphilsaint Posted 16 September, 2008 Share Posted 16 September, 2008 I guess for me it's about expectation. With my expectation lowered, I can enjoy the footy more. Where in the league did you expect a team of 19/20 year olds to be? I expected and expect us to struggle and if I'm seeing commitment and talent then I'm OK with that. respect to you. i really mean it but i find this difficult to bear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 16 September, 2008 Author Share Posted 16 September, 2008 I guess for me it's about expectation. With my expectation lowered, I can enjoy the footy more. Where in the league did you expect a team of 19/20 year olds to be? I expected and expect us to struggle and if I'm seeing commitment and talent then I'm OK with that. expectations.. when warnock came in at palace (so many laughed at the idea of him coming here) they played far younger players than what we have and almost made the playoffs... we, on the other hand seem to be going the other direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbletch Posted 16 September, 2008 Share Posted 16 September, 2008 expectations.. when warnock came in at palace (so many laughed at the idea of him coming here) they played far younger players than what we have and almost made the playoffs... we, on the other hand seem to be going the other direction. So YOU expected us to do better? A team of yoof players, managed by a lower league Dutch coach playing total football in the Championship? I expected that to mean a very tough year. And so it seems to be. But with my expectations lowered, and my obligation to support the team, I really enjoy watching us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwarwick Posted 16 September, 2008 Share Posted 16 September, 2008 Didn't Sunderland lose their first four league games the season they won automatic promotion.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjinksie Posted 16 September, 2008 Share Posted 16 September, 2008 Didn't Sunderland lose their first four league games the season they won automatic promotion.... they had money and a decent manager... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 16 September, 2008 Author Share Posted 16 September, 2008 So YOU expected us to do better? A team of yoof players, managed by a lower league Dutch coach playing total football in the Championship? I expected that to mean a very tough year. And so it seems to be. But with my expectations lowered, and my obligation to support the team, I really enjoy watching us. it is not a team of youth players.. 19/22 year olds is not a youth team at all... yes, i expected slightly better in honesty as for the enjoyment... how on earth can you think that the car crash defending is enjoyable and good football and despite "giving their all", the defeats and the effects it will have on youngish players...? if you enjoy that then so be it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 16 September, 2008 Author Share Posted 16 September, 2008 Didn't Sunderland lose their first four league games the season they won automatic promotion.... so, we should be ok when we change manager and get 8m in january to spend...??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 16 September, 2008 Share Posted 16 September, 2008 they had money and a decent manager... And a blend of youth and experience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbletch Posted 16 September, 2008 Share Posted 16 September, 2008 respect to you. i really mean it but i find this difficult to bear. Thanks. And I certainly understand your point and I really meant that it is only through lowered expectations that I can cope. If I felt we were still a promotion candidate this season then I'd be desperate that we're now sitting bottom. I hope we'll finish 4th bottom or higher and I reckon that I've seen enough in the team to suggest we could do that or much better. I should also stress that I'm a card-carrying anti-Lowe poster on here and so this is not some form of pro-Lowe wind-up. I saw the lads play Winchester pre-season as well as the Stoke, West Ham and Celtic matches and I just felt a connection with the kids. Thought they were a breath of fresh air and decided there and then to put my Lowe-issue behind me and support the lads this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southamptonfclegend Posted 16 September, 2008 Share Posted 16 September, 2008 really? derby last year anyone? it says rarely which means not very often therefore one example is not making his point invalid you idiot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madruss Posted 16 September, 2008 Share Posted 16 September, 2008 expectations.. when warnock came in at palace (so many laughed at the idea of him coming here) they played far younger players than what we have and almost made the playoffs... we, on the other hand seem to be going the other direction. Interesting you should use Warnock coming in at Palace as an example..spookily enough in his first 5 games as manager he amassed a total of 3 points, before things started to go very well indeed, leading eventually to the playoffs. Let's hope that's some kind of tenuous omen!! In answer to your original question. I genuinely think the team this season is more enjoyable to watch. For most of last season, the team didn't really have a plan and this often resulted in some very dire football. Compare that to this season, where we clearly do have a plan but can't always execute it. However when things do go to plan, the results are stunning. For example, I can honestly say I haven't seen Saints score a better team goal than the one we scored against QPR, since we were in the Premiership probably. Add to that the fact that the majority of the team is made up of home-grown players who have a lot of potential, and (imho) you get a much more enjoyable experience than last year's dross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Second Coming Posted 16 September, 2008 Share Posted 16 September, 2008 it is not a team of youth players.. 19/22 year olds is not a youth team at all... yes, i expected slightly better in honesty as for the enjoyment... how on earth can you think that the car crash defending is enjoyable and good football and despite "giving their all", the defeats and the effects it will have on youngish players...? if you enjoy that then so be it... The minus 5 goal difference DD - helped do you not think by playing QPR with ten men for an hour and conceding 3 goals, one off-side?? I HATE excuses, but frankly, we have defended really badly in two games - not five. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 16 September, 2008 Author Share Posted 16 September, 2008 The minus 5 goal difference DD - helped do you not think by playing QPR with ten men for an hour and conceding 3 goals, one off-side?? I HATE excuses, but frankly, we have defended really badly in two games - not five. I could not care less if it was just one game...those nitpicking points done matter to the league table.. you say one offside in defence of the team..what about the one where he was flagged for offside when he was not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Second Coming Posted 16 September, 2008 Share Posted 16 September, 2008 Thanks. And I certainly understand your point and I really meant that it is only through lowered expectations that I can cope. If I felt we were still a promotion candidate this season then I'd be desperate that we're now sitting bottom. I hope we'll finish 4th bottom or higher and I reckon that I've seen enough in the team to suggest we could do that or much better. I should also stress that I'm a card-carrying anti-Lowe poster on here and so this is not some form of pro-Lowe wind-up. I saw the lads play Winchester pre-season as well as the Stoke, West Ham and Celtic matches and I just felt a connection with the kids. Thought they were a breath of fresh air and decided there and then to put my Lowe-issue behind me and support the lads this year. I still habour hopes for promotion. Do you know why?? Because if you are going to take HOPE away from a Southampton fan, than you might as well give up. 30 years I have lived in hope. Like a few poor results is going to stop me. Finally, for the first time since 1984, I feel like I'm supporting my home players again. Don't ask why (also a card carrying Lowe agnostic!!) but circumstances being what they are, I'll just go and enjoy the football thanks. And take the results on the chin like a man. But to those who seek to crush hope, humbug!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 16 September, 2008 Author Share Posted 16 September, 2008 for those who say they take these defeats on the chin...? why is that so.. yes we have some home grown players in the team...how many are from southampton? not that it matters.. when we were disgusted with the team when we went down, we had far more players who had long ties with the club and who had been brilliant for us and meant a huge deal...we went down and the players DID care yet were undone by many manager etc... why all of a sudden take results on the chin and say hey ho... are people giving up?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Second Coming Posted 16 September, 2008 Share Posted 16 September, 2008 for those who say they take these defeats on the chin...? why is that so.. yes we have some home grown players in the team...how many are from southampton? not that it matters.. when we were disgusted with the team when we went down, we had far more players who had long ties with the club and who had been brilliant for us and meant a huge deal...we went down and the players DID care yet were undone by many manager etc... why all of a sudden take results on the chin and say hey ho... are people giving up?? I never blamed the players for relegation. That was the fault of three managers in one season, but please, let's not start that hackneyed debate again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbletch Posted 16 September, 2008 Share Posted 16 September, 2008 it is not a team of youth players.. 19/22 year olds is not a youth team at all... yes, i expected slightly better in honesty as for the enjoyment... how on earth can you think that the car crash defending is enjoyable and good football and despite "giving their all", the defeats and the effects it will have on youngish players...? if you enjoy that then so be it... What is slightly better for you? Can you define it for me? 4th bottom? Top 6? Where? And can we still get there from where we are now? I can only assume that your expectations must have been sky-high this season to be so apparently angry that anyone else would derive pleasure from watching the team this year. If your expectations were that high, then I might suggest that it's you that needs to re-evaluate where this team of youngish players can finish this year. And I haven't seen a season of car crash defending. I saw some really naive stuff at QPR that got worse when we were down to 10 men but on the whole when we've had grown-ups in the team we've looked OK. Svensson against Blackpool had a bit of a 'mare though. But that match was lost as a team not through individuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbletch Posted 16 September, 2008 Share Posted 16 September, 2008 I still habour hopes for promotion. Do you know why?? Because if you are going to take HOPE away from a Southampton fan, than you might as well give up. 30 years I have lived in hope. Like a few poor results is going to stop me. Finally, for the first time since 1984, I feel like I'm supporting my home players again. Don't ask why (also a card carrying Lowe agnostic!!) but circumstances being what they are, I'll just go and enjoy the football thanks. And take the results on the chin like a man. But to those who seek to crush hope, humbug!! Absolutely agree and for the record my expectations might be lowered going into the season but my dreams are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvin Posted 16 September, 2008 Share Posted 16 September, 2008 "we will walk this league" sort of throw away comment.. I mean, regardless of the age, style of play, we are already bottom of the league... how on earth could that be enjoyable..? WE WILL WALK THIS LEAGUE. May as well say something as predictable as this thread being created from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 16 September, 2008 Share Posted 16 September, 2008 There appears to be much discontent with some posters here - but no one seems to be giving any solutions to the problem. Are we now advocating that just 5 games in, we ditch the youngsters and revert to (whats left of) last years older pro's in the hope that it will all come good? Are we now suggesting that after 5 competitive games JP should be shown the door? Personally I think some are expecting just a little bit too much too soon - if we kick the kids out now - their confidence is likely to take quite a knock. This time last season there were many many posters here saying that the kids should be given the chance - now all of a sudden it appears that we are willing to cast them aside without a second thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offix Posted 17 September, 2008 Share Posted 17 September, 2008 they had money and a decent manager... Plus investment and a decent Chairman. So they had 4 things we don't have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Smith Posted 17 September, 2008 Share Posted 17 September, 2008 There doesn't seem to be a lot to add to this thread which hasn't already been said, but I'll give it a go. Last season, under GB, people were calling for his head and others were wanting to give him time, after all, play-offs the year before. There were certainly hints of pass and move and some good set plays, but then it became all too clear too quickly that the tinker man liked tinkering but nobody knew why. Players were played so far out of position some had to learn a new language. Was this down to GB or was it down to lack of investment, we all saw the problem of the CB's last season, and yet we stock piled the midfield. This season, I can see good work coming from the team. On SUnday they showed just how much they had learnt and just how well JP has coached them, they are a credit to his coaching. Seriously, some of the passing and movement was awesome, top class. This year however, like I have said on more than two occasions, this seasons position lies with McGoldrick. Not because I have any special knowledge of the situation, but because it seemed like they had pinpointed him, early doors, as our main striker. This being the case and with him being quite often, the loan striker, we will struggle. McGoldrick is loving coming deep and getting involved in the moves and the passing. His youth pushes him toward the ball, but as I have said before, he needs to run the channels, be more direct and poach. Until we have McGoldrick playing like a Striker, rather than a link man, we will struggle. Nothing against the lad, but he needs to push up, even if that means not seeing the ball for long spells. It's pointless moaning about the defence if we can't score, and all the time we are conceding, we are ignoring the fact that Stern John is not in the team and that apart from Stern Jon and McGoldrick, we have no strikers, do we? So, whereas I can see where JP has improved the team, I get this feeling we need TWO strikers this season, because playing with just McGoldrick will not win us enough games. And that is what we must correct asap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 17 September, 2008 Share Posted 17 September, 2008 Despite the results there IS something compelling in actually being AT the matches because the lads do play exciting football at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 17 September, 2008 Share Posted 17 September, 2008 5 games in.... If we win 2-0 tonight everyone will be happy again. That pretty much sums it up. We wont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian the Red Posted 17 September, 2008 Share Posted 17 September, 2008 We wont. That's what I like about you Apline.... you so positive!! Are you sure you are not a skate?? We will win tonight. The problem we have is that JP is too reliant on youth. We need probably 3 experienced players in out field positions. IMO the mistake on Sunday was very simple, 2x 19 year olds in the heart of the defence. It is not only the players that need to learn quickly but I think JP needs to learn that some experience needs to be added to the team a little more often especially away from home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scudamore Posted 17 September, 2008 Share Posted 17 September, 2008 they had money and a decent manager... Plus investment and a decent Chairman. So they had 4 things we don't have I think money would kind of imply investment... And Quinn a decent chairman? Has the vague whiff of Ridsdale to me. But only time will tell on that one...we'll see how great he is when the tough times come... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scudamore Posted 17 September, 2008 Share Posted 17 September, 2008 And on the main topic point i'd have to say that after some of the dross i've been forced to watch over the last few years (let's not forget just how painfully dull some games were last season) i'm quite happy to watch some decent football...and up until Sundays game we hadn't actually lost a game by more than a goal so it's hardly as if we're being played off the park is it? I'm hardly a football purist but as long as we're getting the ball in the right areas, and having shots at goal, and my arse is coming off my seat then at least i can take cheer from a game...something i certainly couldn't say about some games last season... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolo Posted 17 September, 2008 Share Posted 17 September, 2008 Delldays, how many games have you seen? I realise that it my not be easy for you to get to games, but I don't think the 2 sky games are totally fair on how we have been playing. The blackpool game was a shocker and it looked like the kids were shell shocked. The defending in in the qpr game was very poor and we spent an hour with 10 men. Yet when we had the ball we caused QPR lots of trouble. We had numerous chances before Lallana equalised... I don't think those 2 games are a fair representation of the rest of the season. Also think about who we have played. The fixture computer has hardly given us an easy ride. I mean they were tough games and after 5 matches i expected around 3 points. But we are playing so much better now. The defence will come (fingers crossed for a old fashioned centreback in a load!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwaysaint Posted 17 September, 2008 Share Posted 17 September, 2008 ****ing hell, we have the textbook example of a team that needs time to settle in and build experience. How can anyone have expected us to start well? Have you heard nothing about our situation? We have been forced to go with inexperienced youngsters. They're like a more lightweight and green but more motivated and probably more talented version of what we had last year and they were hopeless and dull to watch. We will probably survive but it'll be a tough season. That's pretty much how it is for a team in financial trouble. You should expect us to try to survive this season and have a more experienced and settled team next year. This isn't too shocking, we were on the verge of this for most of the nineties, we fielded some awful players/teams and were often very lucky to avoid the drop. We wouldn't have gone back up easily then either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsarum Posted 17 September, 2008 Share Posted 17 September, 2008 "we will walk this league" sort of throw away comment.. I mean, regardless of the age, style of play, we are already bottom of the league... how on earth could that be enjoyable..? I find it ironic that you are have been one of the main Pro-Lowe people on this board, yet it appears due our current postion you think things need to change, I dare say blamiong it all on the manager. We are playing the way we are with a young team due to Lowe, Poortvliet is trying to do the best he can with the resources or lack of resources he has at his disposal. But he is restricted in what he can do, especially as some players are apparately not playing because their wages are appearance related. However although I'm not a Lowe supporter, I feel we do not need to panic yet, we are playing some of the best football I've seen us play for years, we just need to tighten up the defence a bit and be more ruthless in attack IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 17 September, 2008 Share Posted 17 September, 2008 However although I'm not a Lowe supporter, I feel we do not need to panic yet, we are playing some of the best football I've seen us play for years, we just need to tighten up the defence a bit and be more ruthless in attack IMO. Will somebody please tell the manager? Our defence is getting worse as each game goes by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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