Professor Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 There's often mention of Saints' traditionally making a slow start to the season, or having 'bogy' teams that tend to beat us. These sort of things have no place in discussing the result of any particular game. Superstition has no place in football, despite some managers never changing their underpants, and just makes you doubt the intellect of people who claim these past results as reason for a current result. If there was any logic to the slow start contention, it would be due to the managers, coaches or players at the time, and to the fixture list, but none of those factors have any relevance to the Saint's team in 2010. Maybe some people just grab any convenient excuse because it helps avoid criticising the club management when the team is under-performing, but perhaps someone will disagree otherwise this will be a short thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobM Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 It's been the same for many, many years. We have a new stadium, training grounds, management team, coaches, players, board, owners, staff... the only thing that has remained the same is the city and the fans. While fans certainly play a part, they can't be blamed. So I'd love to hear why people think we start poorly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scudamore Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 Agreed. Stop talking sense, the hordes will turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scudamore Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 Agreed. Stop talking sense, the hordes will turn. However how does one explain the rule that a player will always score against his old team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miltonaggro Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 I think for the fans it's understandible in trying to augment their disappointment, for the team management it's a way of buying time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobbo Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 We have only played 2 league games and if we win the game in hand we will be 3 points from the top. Lets not push the panic button, I have a feeling these away games will take the pressure off. WIFM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 As at now, there can be NO excuses Reasons for "why this or why that" can and are used be used as "cop out" excuses Our Salvation is History The Investment is History Our current Hoofball philosophy of Pardew is a REASON why we are Underachieving Not an Excuse, a REASON And the REASON is UNEXCUSABLE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 However how does one explain the rule that a player will always score against his old team? By conducting a complex statistical analysis that proves it's (probably) no more or less likely than him scoring against any other team he faces ? EG most obvious recent example Antonio at St Mary's preseason for Reading, but neither Matt Mills nor Alex Pearce scored... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 As at now, there can be NO excuses Reasons for "why this or why that" can and are used be used as "cop out" excuses Our Salvation is History The Investment is History Our current Hoofball philosophy of Pardew is a REASON why we are Underachieving Not an Excuse, a REASON And the REASON is UNEXCUSABLE And also a figment of your imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 We have only played 2 league games and if we win the game in hand we will be 3 points from the top. Lets not push the panic button, I have a feeling these away games will take the pressure off. WIFM Agreed, but another take on it is this We have only played two games and are 3 points from Top, and 1 point from Bottom Come Saturday we could have only played three games, and be in the bottom three, with only 1 point Just another vista Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 There's often mention of Saints' traditionally making a slow start to the season, or having 'bogy' teams that tend to beat us. These sort of things have no place in discussing the result of any particular game. Superstition has no place in football, despite some managers never changing their underpants, and just makes you doubt the intellect of people who claim these past results as reason for a current result. If there was any logic to the slow start contention, it would be due to the managers, coaches or players at the time, and to the fixture list, but none of those factors have any relevance to the Saint's team in 2010. Maybe some people just grab any convenient excuse because it helps avoid criticising the club management when the team is under-performing, but perhaps someone will disagree otherwise this will be a short thread. Agree completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 How 'hoofball' is it? I haven't been able to go this season yet, but saw some decent football last season, albeit with a tendency by some players to panic and hoof the ball sometimes. Has the style changed this season? If so, why, when it was working so well? Is Pardew scared of the expectation etc? Lallana, Schneiderlin, Lambert, Barnard, Puncheon are all good with the ball at their feet, all have a bit of skill, so why wouldn't we play to their strengths? Lambert needs crosses, not 50 yard balls in his general direction. Well, I've never before had to wear a neck brace after every match It would be touch and go whether Jonny Wilkinson could get a game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 We do have a tendency to hoof it upfield after a while. I think it is something which Pardew has identified though and is looking to discourage. He better get on with it though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 And also a figment of your imagination. I'm glad you are blindly happy with everything as usual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 How 'hoofball' is it? I haven't been able to go this season yet, but saw some decent football last season, albeit with a tendency by some players to panic and hoof the ball sometimes. Has the style changed this season? If so, why, when it was working so well? Is Pardew scared of the expectation etc? Lallana, Schneiderlin, Lambert, Barnard, Puncheon are all good with the ball at their feet, all have a bit of skill, so why wouldn't we play to their strengths? Lambert needs crosses, not 50 yard balls in his general direction. Basically we play football first half then, depending on your view, either get lazy or tired and whack it at Lambert / Barnard and/or they defend sensibly and leave us with few passes / let us give the ball to a centre back who can't pass. Exactly the same as last season really, and we did ok then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 I'm glad you are blindly happy with everything as usual Hardly, I'm annoyed at our rubbish results, but we're not "playing hoofball" and the manager has explicitly said he took Lambert off on Tuesday to prevent us resorting to it, so just ignore all the evidence to the contrary and carry on your merry, ill-informed, measurably wrong, way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 Hardly, I'm annoyed at our rubbish results, but we're not "playing hoofball" and the manager has explicitly said he took Lambert off on Tuesday to prevent us resorting to it, so just ignore all the evidence to the contrary and carry on your merry, ill-informed, measurably wrong, way. Isnt that a bit like curing the cancer by killing the patient ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 Isnt that a bit like curing the cancer by killing the patient ? Um, no. Lambert was tired and isn't match fit, it achieved the goal of saving him for the league and forcing the team en masse not to be lazy with the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 Hardly, I'm annoyed at our rubbish results, but we're not "playing hoofball" and the manager has explicitly said he took Lambert off on Tuesday to prevent us resorting to it, so just ignore all the evidence to the contrary and carry on your merry, ill-informed, measurably wrong, way. You mean, instead of TELLING the players NOT to resort to it ???, You know TALKING during a Match, instead of waiting for excuse time afterwards ?? Ill informed ?? Perhaps I dream we resort to Hoofball in the second half. The opposing centre halves don't, they Lap it up I'm not ignoring the evidence mate, but I must admit, I do not wear rose coloured glasses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scudamore Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 By conducting a complex statistical analysis that proves it's (probably) no more or less likely than him scoring against any other team he faces ? EG most obvious recent example Antonio at St Mary's preseason for Reading, but neither Matt Mills nor Alex Pearce scored... Take off your rose tinted statisticals...it's a FACT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 As at now, there can be NO excuses Reasons for "why this or why that" can and are used be used as "cop out" excuses Our Salvation is History The Investment is History Our current Hoofball philosophy of Pardew is a REASON why we are Underachieving Not an Excuse, a REASON And the REASON is UNEXCUSABLE Yep I'm sure the club are worried about giving you another excuse. I wonder what you'll do if they do? I keep reading blustering threads like this on here at the moment the truth is apart from packing up and going off to support Man U there is sod all you can do about it. Honestly all "these "there can be no more excuses" posts are pretty funny really. Now if you where the chairman a statement like that might hold some importance. As for the hoofball we do it sometimes but in no way as much as you make out. In fact one of our best goals last season came at MK Dons from a hoofball. Davis to Lambert goal spectacular it was too. Sometimes route one can be just as effective as 18 pretty passes to goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 Um, no. Lambert was tired and isn't match fit, it achieved the goal of saving him for the league and forcing the team en masse not to be lazy with the ball. A tired Lambert still seems to be our main hope of snatching a goal. Poor excuse. As SaintRichmond says, why not just tell the team to stop it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Red Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 I can't understand why so many people are impatient for results already. If we are in the bottom half after 6-8 games then sure - something isn't right. But 2 games? Are Liverpool fans asking for Hodgsons head already? (slightly different situation I admit) We aren't out of the promotion race for a long long time yet. Didn't Keane take Sunderland from relegation to champions when he took charge in October/November? In my eyes we aren't playing that badly. Be like Take That, have a little patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 A tired Lambert still seems to be our main hope of snatching a goal. Poor excuse. As SaintRichmond says, why not just tell the team to stop it ? stop what? passing to Lambert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 Empirical evidence suggests that over the past 17 years there has been one specific and clear reason for our poor starts to the season. Apart from the Brighton game a couple of years ago, the same significant event has caused our slow start to end and our results to immediately pick up. Yep. For some obscure reason the first win of the season (except Brighton) has co-incided with my first visit of the season to watch Saints in the League. For many years there was serious debate about the club actually stumping up for a ticket for me to get home earlier than planned. I was extremely concerned at the start of this season as I was unable to schedule anything until the Bournemouth game on 2nd October. Luckily due to a change in work needs I now have to whizz across and spend next week working in Scotland. At great personal sacrifice to myself, I have invested 50.89 pounds in a ticket from Glasgow to Southampton so I will be there for the Rochdale (I think) game a week on Saturday. So cheer up wrist slitters, another week to go yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 stop what? passing to Lambert. You know exactly what I meant. Stop the hoofball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian the Red Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 Empirical evidence suggests that over the past 17 years there has been one specific and clear reason for our poor starts to the season. Apart from the Brighton game a couple of years ago, the same significant event has caused our slow start to end and our results to immediately pick up. Yep. For some obscure reason the first win of the season (except Brighton) has co-incided with my first visit of the season to watch Saints in the League. For many years there was serious debate about the club actually stumping up for a ticket for me to get home earlier than planned. I was extremely concerned at the start of this season as I was unable to schedule anything until the Bournemouth game on 2nd October. Luckily due to a change in work needs I now have to whizz across and spend next week working in Scotland. At great personal sacrifice to myself, I have invested 50.89 pounds in a ticket from Glasgow to Southampton so I will be there for the Rochdale (I think) game a week on Saturday. So cheer up wrist slitters, another week to go yet Our saviour!! Oh Dubai Phil you have have saved our beloved AP!!!!!!!!! Next season make sure you come to teh first game of the season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
channonwindmill Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 Any team which is proverbially 'there or thereabouts' at the end of the season will have, at some point, lost one and drawn one from any two selected games. We just happen to have done it in our first two games, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnailOB Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 You know exactly what I meant. Stop the hoofball. You are choosing to quote those that you perceive to be correct to fit your argument Yes there has been 'hoofball' but as someone mentioned, seems to come with panic when team are chasing a result I have not seen Saints play hoofball from first minute of game, i have seen them play a lot of passing football, creating a lot of chances and they have been unlucky in front of goal. When things haven't gone their way panic seems to set in and the we see a bit of 'hoofball'. I wouldn't say this is the team reverting to type. But we can rightly ask why this happens. Is it Pardews instruction ? Is it a sign of a league one statndard player just not good enough to do anything better when pressure on ? If its not Pardews instruction then why is he not resolving this ? BUT to say Saints are just a hoofball team is definitely wrong. This is not pardew luvvie talk, this is not a rose tinted/everything at Saints is great view, I am trying to be balanced, unfortunately too many want to take the extreme view whether it be good or bad. Alps you have not seen them play (and I stress this is not an ex-pat cheap dig etc..) various people have posted the same sort of view that I have but you choose to side with the opposite view. How do you make a reasoned opinion ? How can you clearly state stop the hoofball when you are not even seeing them play ? Did you see the Plymouth game on Sky - did you think we played hoofball all game there ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Smith Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 There's often mention of Saints' traditionally making a slow start to the season, or having 'bogy' teams that tend to beat us. These sort of things have no place in discussing the result of any particular game. Superstition has no place in football, despite some managers never changing their underpants, and just makes you doubt the intellect of people who claim these past results as reason for a current result. If there was any logic to the slow start contention, it would be due to the managers, coaches or players at the time, and to the fixture list, but none of those factors have any relevance to the Saint's team in 2010. Maybe some people just grab any convenient excuse because it helps avoid criticising the club management when the team is under-performing, but perhaps someone will disagree otherwise this will be a short thread. I think you are confused. Yes, sure people quote historical stats and that we always start slowly. Yes, we were missing 2 key players first game in Lallana and Lambert and yes there is some pre-season lag and yes this is the same for all teams and we should've/could've prepared better. Yes, our owner sadly passed away (RIP ML) and despite all best efforts, this does have an impact on morale, very rarely in real life is tragedy the pre-curser to immediate success, but sometimes looking back, it is seen as the lowest point from which we ended up recovering from. Also, missing the second game in, due to said tragedy, was not the best prepearation for the Leyton Game. But your mention is of tradition and us making a slow start to the season. despite all the reasons/excuses for these two games where we have lost 1 out of 2 but won 0, I think you need to understand why people say such a thing. This is because it is irrelevant how you start the season, but more relevant and the only important thing is where you end the season. So, despite starting badly season after season, we have finshed in good, bad and terrible positions, so, you cannot jusge our final finishing position based on our first 2 games. Look at history, you can quite clearly see that no matter how badly we started, you could no predict our finishing position then either. I mean, even if we won the first 2 games the season we got relegated from the Prem, didn't mean we weren't relegated, just means we won 2 games. So, don't look at this idea from a 'traditionally we always start badly so don't worry', but more of a 'historically we always start badly, so you should know as a Saints fan, these first 2 games have no impact on our finsihing position', ie we could win the league, reach the play-offs, just miss out on the play-offs, finish mid table or get relegated regardless of these previous 2 results. WIFM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughieslastminutegoal Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 Empirical evidence suggests that over the past 17 years there has been one specific and clear reason for our poor starts to the season. Apart from the Brighton game a couple of years ago, the same significant event has caused our slow start to end and our results to immediately pick up. Yep. For some obscure reason the first win of the season (except Brighton) has co-incided with my first visit of the season to watch Saints in the League. For many years there was serious debate about the club actually stumping up for a ticket for me to get home earlier than planned. I was extremely concerned at the start of this season as I was unable to schedule anything until the Bournemouth game on 2nd October. Luckily due to a change in work needs I now have to whizz across and spend next week working in Scotland. At great personal sacrifice to myself, I have invested 50.89 pounds in a ticket from Glasgow to Southampton so I will be there for the Rochdale (I think) game a week on Saturday. So cheer up wrist slitters, another week to go yet We only have your word for it, so its anecdotal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian the Red Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 You are choosing to quote those that you perceive to be correct to fit your argument Yes there has been 'hoofball' but as someone mentioned, seems to come with panic when team are chasing a result I have not seen Saints play hoofball from first minute of game, i have seen them play a lot of passing football, creating a lot of chances and they have been unlucky in front of goal. When things haven't gone their way panic seems to set in and the we see a bit of 'hoofball'. I wouldn't say this is the team reverting to type. But we can rightly ask why this happens. Is it Pardews instruction ? Is it a sign of a league one statndard player just not good enough to do anything better when pressure on ? If its not Pardews instruction then why is he not resolving this ? BUT to say Saints are just a hoofball team is definitely wrong. This is not pardew luvvie talk, this is not a rose tinted/everything at Saints is great view, I am trying to be balanced, unfortunately too many want to take the extreme view whether it be good or bad. Alps you have not seen them play (and I stress this is not an ex-pat cheap dig etc..) various people have posted the same sort of view that I have but you choose to side with the opposite view. How do you make a reasoned opinion ? How can you clearly state stop the hoofball when you are not even seeing them play ? Did you see the Plymouth game on Sky - did you think we played hoofball all game there ? Agreed. Saints do not play hoofball. Even in the 2nd half the ball is played along the ground in most cases; it has only been when defenders have panicked has the ball been hoofed or as a last resort to break down defences - mixing up our gamne maybe?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La BoIS Saint Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 We haven't always had a poor start. In 2003/4 we kicked off with draws against Leicester, Brum and Leeds and then beat Man U, Wolves and Spurs. Went downhill after that though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 We only have your word for it, so its anecdotal. Oh FFS as if I didn't have enough to do today booking flights etc. OK sorry, will try and dig out all my airmiles statements going back and then get hold of the lads that got me the tickets :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bob Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 Well, I've never before had to wear a neck brace after every match It would be touch and go whether Jonny Wilkinson could get a game Seriously, you must either by vertically challenged or have been going to a differnet stadium to me. Against LO and Bompey, which I saw in the flesh, we played the majority of football on the deck, and only tried the high corsses when we got near the by-line (not very often I grant you). As evinced by Fonte and Schneiderlin's passing going astray a far percentage of the time! The only players that really "hoofed" the ball were the panicing defenders and then they didn't do that, that often!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 You are choosing to quote those that you perceive to be correct to fit your argument Yes there has been 'hoofball' but as someone mentioned, seems to come with panic when team are chasing a result I have not seen Saints play hoofball from first minute of game, i have seen them play a lot of passing football, creating a lot of chances and they have been unlucky in front of goal. When things haven't gone their way panic seems to set in and the we see a bit of 'hoofball'. I wouldn't say this is the team reverting to type. But we can rightly ask why this happens. Is it Pardews instruction ? Is it a sign of a league one statndard player just not good enough to do anything better when pressure on ? If its not Pardews instruction then why is he not resolving this ? BUT to say Saints are just a hoofball team is definitely wrong. This is not pardew luvvie talk, this is not a rose tinted/everything at Saints is great view, I am trying to be balanced, unfortunately too many want to take the extreme view whether it be good or bad. Alps you have not seen them play (and I stress this is not an ex-pat cheap dig etc..) various people have posted the same sort of view that I have but you choose to side with the opposite view. How do you make a reasoned opinion ? How can you clearly state stop the hoofball when you are not even seeing them play ? Did you see the Plymouth game on Sky - did you think we played hoofball all game there ? Of course we did not play "Hoofball" all of the game BUT, we DID play Hoofball at the very time in the match that we should have been getting through their defence by playing FOOTBALL That is why I criticise Pardew, because if the Team, HIS Team ARE playing to his instructions ALL of the match, then he should NOT be Manager, and if they disregard his instructions, then that shows a breakdown in communications, and/or confidence in the Manager's esteem Hoofball right onto the head of the opposing centre half is NOT a great tactical ploy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 Seriously, you must either by vertically challenged or have been going to a differnet stadium to me. Against LO and Bompey, which I saw in the flesh, we played the majority of football on the deck, and only tried the high corsses when we got near the by-line (not very often I grant you). As evinced by Fonte and Schneiderlin's passing going astray a far percentage of the time! The only players that really "hoofed" the ball were the panicing defenders and then they didn't do that, that often!! Which "Bompey" match are you referring to ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West End Saint Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 Basically we play football first half then, depending on your view, either get lazy or tired and whack it at Lambert / Barnard and/or they defend sensibly and leave us with few passes / let us give the ball to a centre back who can't pass. Exactly the same as last season really, and we did ok then... I agree we start playing football and look good I think as frustrations creep in we have tended to go direct with a long ball in the hope we get a chance. Pards took Lambo off against Bolton so we didnt rely on a long ball and kept the ball on the deck so he is obviously aware of the problem. I have to say it isn't easy playing footbal through or round a team that have 10 men behind the ball. Maybe away we will be able to keep playing it on the deck for longer with teams that have to come out for more than just a bore draw and at home when we start taking the early chances we create it will be a more open game and we will have the chance to keep playing. I know I and others have been banging on about it but if we can get a Antonio type player with pace power and a direct goal threat we wont have to rely on long hopefull balls to break teams down when it hasn't happened for us. I can't agree that our team or Pards are just hoofball merchants we are a good footballing side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up and away Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 We have only played 2 league games and if we win the game in hand we will be 3 points from the top. Lets not push the panic button, I have a feeling these away games will take the pressure off. WIFM Your right, there is no need to press the panic button. But equally, there is something really adrift when we start so poorly against weak teams, both at home. Just imagine if ManC had drew with Sunderland, then lost to West Ham, that's exactly the same sort of perspective our start has been. With the added bonus that the opposition will sell us their best player in this league. In summary, a very bad start that needs to be immediately improved upon! No need to panic, but no need to gloss over what is actually happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 You are choosing to quote those that you perceive to be correct to fit your argument Yes there has been 'hoofball' but as someone mentioned, seems to come with panic when team are chasing a result I have not seen Saints play hoofball from first minute of game, i have seen them play a lot of passing football, creating a lot of chances and they have been unlucky in front of goal. When things haven't gone their way panic seems to set in and the we see a bit of 'hoofball'. I wouldn't say this is the team reverting to type. But we can rightly ask why this happens. Is it Pardews instruction ? Is it a sign of a league one statndard player just not good enough to do anything better when pressure on ? If its not Pardews instruction then why is he not resolving this ? BUT to say Saints are just a hoofball team is definitely wrong. This is not pardew luvvie talk, this is not a rose tinted/everything at Saints is great view, I am trying to be balanced, unfortunately too many want to take the extreme view whether it be good or bad. Alps you have not seen them play (and I stress this is not an ex-pat cheap dig etc..) various people have posted the same sort of view that I have but you choose to side with the opposite view. How do you make a reasoned opinion ? How can you clearly state stop the hoofball when you are not even seeing them play ? Did you see the Plymouth game on Sky - did you think we played hoofball all game there ? I managed to watch the Plymouth game on SKy through a dodgy web feed. I have stated this on here before - when I have been unable to see a game, I formulate my opinion about events on feedback from here and various other media describing the events combined. What else can I do ? And I should note at this point, that I have visited the "Just back from the game" threads on here and frequently seen diametrically opposing views from two posters who both claimed to be there. Its happened in the last week; apparently Puncheon was both excellent and sh*t in the Orient game. so attending does not automatically give more validity to ones opinion than non-attendance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 I agree we start playing football and look good I think as frustrations creep in we have tended to go direct with a long ball in the hope we get a chance. Pards took Lambo off against Bolton so we didnt rely on a long ball and kept the ball on the deck so he is obviously aware of the problem. I have to say it isn't easy playing footbal through or round a team that have 10 men behind the ball. Maybe away we will be able to keep playing it on the deck for longer with teams that have to come out for more than just a bore draw and at home when we start taking the early chances we create it will be a more open game and we will have the chance to keep playing. I know I and others have been banging on about it but if we can get a Antonio type player with pace power and a direct goal threat we wont have to rely on long hopefull balls to break teams down when it hasn't happened for us. I can't agree that our team or Pards are just hoofball merchants we are a good footballing side. But WHY did he take him off ??? Why not open his mouth and by TALIKNG, Instruct HIS players to keep playing it along the deck In other words, revert to how we were playing in the first half, and keep Lambert on the pitch Why is that so difficult ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnailOB Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 I know I and others have been banging on about it but if we can get a Antonio type player with pace power and a direct goal threat we wont have to rely on long hopefull balls to break teams down when it hasn't happened for us. I can't agree that our team or Pards are just hoofball merchants we are a good footballing side. I don't believe Antonio is the be all and end all of all our woes BUT there was something exciting about watching him just kick a ball into the direction of the corner and looking at the full back as if to say, I'm going to run for this, see if you can keep up ! Just a shame that his final delivery could ruin all the hard work ! That said it did give you a different element to the play and was certainly very effective late in the game when he was used as a sub as, by then, the opposition were exhausted. We do not have that outlet at the moment hence my feelings that the team tire, panic and kick aimlessly at present as they have not had the luxury of being a couple of goals up in the league games at the moment. In that respect I would agree that AP is limited as he does struggle to change a game. I would say he sets his stall up very well and thats why I've disagreed with some of the comments that we are a hoofball team but if we are not ahead after 60 minutes - whats the plan ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnailOB Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 attending does not automatically give more validity to ones opinion than non-attendance. Totally agree, thats why i find it hard to understand why you 'appear' to favour the negative view. Such as this 'hoofball' analogy. I agree that there are areas that still need to be addressed with the team but if you followed the more positive (dare i say it 'balanced') posts it might be nice for some of us to see if 'Alps' has a cheery side : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West End Saint Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 I don't believe Antonio is the be all and end all of all our woes BUT there was something exciting about watching him just kick a ball into the direction of the corner and looking at the full back as if to say, I'm going to run for this, see if you can keep up ! Just a shame that his final delivery could ruin all the hard work ! That said it did give you a different element to the play and was certainly very effective late in the game when he was used as a sub as, by then, the opposition were exhausted. We do not have that outlet at the moment hence my feelings that the team tire, panic and kick aimlessly at present as they have not had the luxury of being a couple of goals up in the league games at the moment. In that respect I would agree that AP is limited as he does struggle to change a game. I would say he sets his stall up very well and thats why I've disagreed with some of the comments that we are a hoofball team but if we are not ahead after 60 minutes - whats the plan ?? I don't think Antonio was the be all and end all but he could develop into a very good player, we need someone in that mould if they were better quality than him great he & Papa to some extent were great to throw on from the bench as they could change a game we dont have that at the moment there is no plan B. I like Pards the last thing I want to see is a change of manager we must have stability and be going in 1 direction as a club the top sides have managers that have been there for a long time United Everton Arsenal I want that for us. Pards is going to have to find a plan B it seems that teams are coming to St Marys to defend and get a point we are going to have to find a way round that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidshokk Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 I know its not time to panic but this is not how I saw the season starting. Playing catch up and fears that we wont have caught up come our 9th game according to the "next 7 games" thread... If we dont make it this season and we look back next season what will the reasoning/excuses be for the slow start? Marcus' passing (Did players know it was coming?), slow reactions from Pardew to strengthen the squad in time?! I really didnt expect there to be any need for excuses this season. I thought we'd be grinning away happily at the top of the table from the off...... It was never going to be that easy though, was it....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 Pards is going to have to find a plan B it seems that teams are coming to St Marys to defend and get a point we are going to have to find a way round that. Or even worse do a Swindon or Plymouth and snatch a winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 I know its not time to panic but this is not how I saw the season starting. Playing catch up and fears that we wont have caught up come our 9th game according to the "next 7 games" thread... If we dont make it this season and we look back next season what will the reasoning/excuses be for the slow start? Marcus' passing (Did players know it was coming?), slow reactions from Pardew to strengthen the squad in time?! I really didnt expect there to be any need for excuses this season. I thought we'd be grinning away happily at the top of the table from the off...... It was never going to be that easy though, was it....... Good post. Despite our clear track record of sh*te starts, I think nobody on here deep-down expected this start. This has aggravated doubts about pre-season and our conduct in the transfer market (if we had beaten Plymouth, none of that would have seemed important), and basically led to the impression that we are well on the way to blowing it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wurzel Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 Alpine on "Reasons or Excuses" thread You know exactly what I meant. Stop the hoofball. Alpine on Next 7 Games thread I couldnt give a shiny one if AP is endorsing hoofball, so long as it gets results. Proof if needed that not only is our resident a troll, he can't even remember which side of his own argument he's on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidshokk Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 (edited) Good post. Despite our clear track record of sh*te starts, I think nobody on here deep-down expected this start. This has aggravated doubts about pre-season and our conduct in the transfer market (if we had beaten Plymouth, none of that would have seemed important), and basically led to the impression that we are well on the way to blowing it again. Its a difficult one though, is it right to panic this early on given that we've only played two league games? Normally, no. But having seen both league games and the cup games its things like not being able to put the ball in the net when in front of goal and some of the poor passing that has surprised me the most and its that that makes we worry about the rest of the season, despite the number of games played. Afterall, this is the complete team for the season, with the exception of maybe one other (where is he by the way, saturday is tomorrow).... Dont get me wrong, Ive been really impressed with some of the football but I dont think its league winning stuff yet. Edited 27 August, 2010 by Liquidshokk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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