We beat Reading - and loa and behold, out come the belated financial results...

[alpine_saint]

...preparing us for the sale of our final decent established or fast-improving players in January.

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/3871404.Saints_announce___4_9m_loss_/

 

Isnt it nice that the club is run in an honest and utterly non-cynical manner ??

Edited 24 November, 2008 by alpine_saint

[alpine_saint]

And to think the thread about "Lowe milking the Reading result" was promptly deleted on Saturday..........

[hugh]

...preparing us for the sale of our final decent established or fast-improving players in January.

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/3871404.Saints_announce___4_9m_loss_/

 

Isnt it nice that the club is run in an honest and utterly non-cynical manner ??

 

 

If the gates continue at below the break even figure, why is it a surprise that we will have to sell players? It isn't rocket science.

 

You could make a case for blaming those that could go to the games, but choose not to do so......

[Thedelldays]

hmmmm...not to sure what to think

 

lowe left us with nearly 4m in the bank (granted parachute payments) he returns and the club is spending 81% of its turnover on wages...and 6m in the red

 

what the hell happened...?????

[70's Mike]

Really tells us nothing about CURRENT position, as accounts are now 5 months old

[70's Mike]

Presumably Mike Wilde will be saying i am sorry i appointed the previous regime that did most of the damage

[alpine_saint]

hmmmm...not to sure what to think

 

lowe left us with nearly 4m in the bank (granted parachute payments) he returns and the club is spending 81% of its turnover on wages...and 6m in the red

 

what the hell happened...?????

 

Dont see the point of going over this in detail again, but basically Lowe spent sod-all in the first relegation season, he was too busy retrenching the finances to care about trying to get back up again. He reckoned he could keep up revenue without delivering the same standard of product.

 

If he had been in charge continuously since then, I contend our financial state would have been no better than now. His penny-pinching risk-averse bolllocks possibly combined with a second relegation could well have seen attendances lower than they are now.

 

Wilde & co put the family silver on black, hoping to get us up into the PL, unfortunately Burley decided he preferred red. If Burley hadnt been such a twaat, it would have worked.

 

I dont blame Wilde & Co for that (there is plenty else to blame them for). They tried to get us up - that squad would have done it automatically with the right coach.

 

Our finances were wrecked by RELEGATION. The aftermath was just an aggravation. Lowe is utterly cracked if he thinks he can turn this into a profit-making organisation in its current division. Almost NOBODY is making money from football.

[alpine_saint]

Really tells us nothing about CURRENT position' date=' as accounts are now 5 months old[/quote']

 

Conveniently so, of course.

 

And people slagged Wilde off for adjusting the financial year...

[Window Cleaner]

hmmmm...not to sure what to think

 

lowe left us with nearly 4m in the bank (granted parachute payments) he returns and the club is spending 81% of its turnover on wages...and 6m in the red

 

what the hell happened...?????

 

 

the club was run by "football people", lifelong fans and ex-managers.

[Window Cleaner]

Presumably Mike Wilde will be saying i am sorry i appointed the previous regime that did most of the damage

 

Surely will if it was all his own work. However seeing as he had to "buy" the votes of staunch Saints supporters to be able to do so in the first place I doubt that it was all his doing;

[Thedelldays]

81% on wages

 

that was suicide

[Master Bates]

We have a £6.4m overdraft.

[Window Cleaner]

Of note: The average income per ticket comes to about 14.50£.

We were obviously padding the gates with freebies and kids for a quid type

schemes.

Also of note, the p!ss poor loan fees obtained for Rasiak and Skacel.

I thought 700K was the figure bandied about for Rasiak alone.

[stevegrant]

...preparing us for the sale of our final decent established or fast-improving players in January.

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/3871404.Saints_announce___4_9m_loss_/

 

Isnt it nice that the club is run in an honest and utterly non-cynical manner ??

I posted on Friday afternoon that the results had been signed off by the auditors and were likely to be released this morning.

 

Last time I checked, Friday came before Saturday, and therefore before the Reading game.

[Window Cleaner]

81% on wages

 

that was suicide

 

But it's not just wages is it DD, over and above that the club cost another

15 million or so to run. Wages might make up 81% of our income but they only make up 45% or so of our total expenditure. As I have beefed on about many time the PLC costs far far too much to run based on our income.

It is a juggernaut where all the revenue is whisked away by non footballing

costs.

[lordswoodsaints]

hmmmm...not to sure what to think

 

lowe left us with nearly 4m in the bank (granted parachute payments) he returns and the club is spending 81% of its turnover on wages...and 6m in the red

 

what the hell happened...?????

 

the other lot lived above their means and gambled with our money,something i certainly didnt ask them to do.

[Master Bates]

Saints finance director Dave Jones has warned that further player sales and budget cuts will have to follow as the board try to ensure the club remains “sustainable.”

 

http://m6live.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/3871462.Player_sales_and_budget_cuts_to_continue_at_Saints/

[Frank's cousin]

Lowe is utterly cracked if he thinks he can turn this into a profit-making organisation in its current division. Almost NOBODY is making money from football.

 

Not that far back, WBA got promoted with a total wage nill of less than 4 mil - they got relegated pretty much the following season by not really increasing it, but the money in the bank set them up to re challenge the following season. At Saints in the prem our wage bill was in excess of 26 mil, some 55% of turnover - similar but lower to most other clubs - profits? not many, break even most seasons, maybe the odd mil pre tax and dividends of about 0.5 mil on average. I also believe that the board and shareholders wer happy with tahtgiven how perilous the finances were/are of the majority of clubs, in the prem and elsewhere - So I am not sure what you are trying to say here. Lowe naturally wants the club to be self financing and living within its means, with small profits yes come small dividends but thats a PLC thing. There is plenty of money in the game - certainly in the prem and the ONLY reason no one is making money is that greed has pushed up the costs and everyone is running scared to avoid loosing the cash cow that is the prem.... so they hock themselves up further year on year just to stand still - a bubble that will eventually burst leaving many clubs in worse states than us... Lowe does not subscribe to this - and its a matter of opinion as to whether you agree or disagree - I dont give a flying feck about Lowe, but happen to agree that borrowing to fund short term players and wages that does nothing apart from satisfy fans but increases club debt is NOT what I want to see the club do - YES this means we were always more suceptible to relegation, because we did not 'spend to stand still' (although we did spend a fair amount), but neither did we get further in the hole financially.

 

Ultimately, I believe for the vast majority how you view Lowe ultimately comes down to money - for some the lack of borrowing to spend on the team is foolish and shows a 'lack of ambition' - for others the fact that we did NOT get further into debt by spending what we did not have is a far more sensible approach - its also very difficult to have a happy medium as even a smaller debt is debt.

 

Lowe looking for ' a profitable company' is not stupid, its an aim that should be achieveable - the question really is whether there are enough fans that will follow a side that is not losing money - as this means no big silly signings and excessive wages.

[Window Cleaner]

Saints finance director Dave Jones has warned that further player sales and budget cuts will have to follow as the board try to ensure the club remains “sustainable.”

 

http://m6live.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/3871462.Player_sales_and_budget_cuts_to_continue_at_Saints/

 

 

If only it could be the loan outs and not the current squad nucleus.

Doubt it though, we've tried to sell them now for a year and only succeeded in loaning them out several times. The word millstones comes to mind.

I'm afraid that theyl'll all be back soon (bar Rasiak,good job we got rid of him for a whole season) and we'll have to pay them all again at the expense of the lads who are doing the job for us now.

Think about it Saga,John,Dyer back at SMS, Cork,Robertson,Lallana and Surman gone.

 

Beurrk, makes me sick to even think about having those overpaid idlers back here again.They are doing nothing where they are and their host clubs will want to get shot of them PDQ.

[saint lard]

Dont see the point of going over this in detail again, but basically Lowe spent sod-all in the first relegation season, he was too busy retrenching the finances to care about trying to get back up again. He reckoned he could keep up revenue without delivering the same standard of product.

 

If he had been in charge continuously since then, I contend our financial state would have been no better than now. His penny-pinching risk-averse bolllocks possibly combined with a second relegation could well have seen attendances lower than they are now.

 

Wilde & co put the family silver on black, hoping to get us up into the PL, unfortunately Burley decided he preferred red. If Burley hadnt been such a twaat, it would have worked.

 

I dont blame Wilde & Co for that (there is plenty else to blame them for). They tried to get us up - that squad would have done it automatically with the right coach.

 

Our finances were wrecked by RELEGATION. The aftermath was just an aggravation. Lowe is utterly cracked if he thinks he can turn this into a profit-making organisation in its current division. Almost NOBODY is making money from football.[/quote]

 

They have released their figures this morning,i'm not using it as a comparison,after skimming through it they appear to be on a sound footing.

 

 

http://www.swfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/News/0,,10304~1463999,00.html

[Roman]

the other lot lived above their means and gambled with our money,something i certainly didnt ask them to do.

 

Let's try and be both precise and honest here: who are 'the other lot', which players did they gamble on, how much, and when?

[Window Cleaner]

Last season 46000 less spectators at matches, match day income down by 2.6 million. Jeez we must have been paying people to go to matches or something.

 

Unless those people were all paying £56.50 per match of course.

No wonder Wilde jumped ship, he must have known we were heading for the deep brown when all the "march madness" and early bird schemes started.

Couldn't do anything about them as he was outvoted by the 'fans' on the board

and wanted no more part of the financial folly;

[Window Cleaner]

Let's try and be both precise and honest here: who are 'the other lot', which players did they gamble on, how much, and when?

 

Players like Vignal who actually played about half a season and cost a king's ransom.

I mean he did pretty well when he was properly managed but earlier on he was just a money drain.Ostlund,Lundekvaam,Powell,Makin were just non paying passengers and some were well paid to err not perform;

[tommi]

I posted on Friday afternoon that the results had been signed off by the auditors and were likely to be released this morning.

 

Last time I checked, Friday came before Saturday, and therefore before the Reading game.

 

Steve, why let the facts get in the way of a good story?? :-)

 

In general things are not as bad as they seem (although I guess reality is very much dependant on the last 5 months of trading)

 

Fingers crossed we can keep out of administration and continue as a football club until the end of the season.

[Window Cleaner]

Nothing we didnt know. Win tomorrow please saints. COYR.

 

Indeed, everyone should go to games from here to January to see this team,

after that it'll be back to the old loungers strolling around for 90 mins every Saturday and alternate Tuesdays.

[FMPR]

Last season 46000 less spectators at matches, match day income down by 2.6 million. Jeez we must have been paying people to go to matches or something.

 

Unless those people were all paying £56.50 per match of course.

No wonder Wilde jumped ship, he must have known we were heading for the deep brown when all the "march madness" and early bird schemes started.

Couldn't do anything about them as he was outvoted by the 'fans' on the board

and wanted no more part of the financial folly;

 

Got to remember last season had lots of season tickets being bought just ont he premise of the Paul Allen revolution

[Window Cleaner]

Steve, why let the facts get in the way of a good story?? :-)

 

In general things are not as bad as they seem (although I guess reality is very much dependant on the last 5 months of trading)

 

Fingers crossed we can keep out of administration and continue as a football club until the end of the season.

 

Yes with the extra revenue on stream for 2009/10 ,these next few months are vital.

[slickmick]

Sheffield Wednesdays wage bill is 58% of turnover compared to our 81%. They made a profit of just over £3m, including player sales.

Just goes to show it can be done, even though it has taken Sheffield near on 5 years to turn things around.

If we had a blistering run of form which put us within touch of promotion between now and January transfer window, would Barclays give us until the summer to hold on to our players ?

[slickmick]

We have a £6.4m overdraft.

 

 

£8m now, if you believe Longshot.

[slickmick]

Yes with the extra revenue on stream for 2009/10 ,these next few months are vital.

 

 

What extra revenue ?

[Window Cleaner]

Got to remember last season had lots of season tickets being bought just ont he premise of the Paul Allen revolution

 

Yes true, but it was "March Madness" that reduce the average ST price by about 100 quid (or a bit less) but that was only open to existing ST holders.

Early Bird was nowhere near so cheap so with an average ass on seat revenue

of about £14.50 there were a lot of concessions and freebies in the average crowd make up.

Those who have been complaining bitterly about ticket prices should do their maths on this,last season the football was cheap,not for everyone to be sure,

but a lot of people were paying virtually nothing whilst others were coughing up full price.

They were obviously padding the gates with free school tickets and the like. Nothing else would explain the 20% drop in revenue compared to the 9% drop in attendances.

[ozzmeister]

To be honest I think that was a very good article, its honest (albeit very daming to the last regime) and gives the impression that we are doing are hhardest to begin to operate within our means.

Be intersting to see how our finances look in six months/ a year when spme of these cost cutting have taken effect.

[Window Cleaner]

What extra revenue ?

 

There is a new Sky/BBC deal which should lead to all CCC clubs receiving about

3 million more in TV payments.Says so in the annual report (well it doesn't give the figure but that's what it is).

[Window Cleaner]

£8m now, if you believe Longshot.

 

Not bad on a 4.5 million limit.

Even after we'd got all the ST money in we were still on our overdraft limit

under the old regime.

[Window Cleaner]

Strange we all got KJ's sale fee well wrong, also strange no mention of the sale

of Pélé to West Brom, either for 2006/7 or 2007/8, what's that about then.

See we got 3.1 add on for Theo,but all in all the player sales are far from

what I thought they'd be. Never did understand the 9.1 million profit shown in the trading report, I can see why now as 3.1 million came from Theo and Pélé

looks to have moved on for free or on a never never deal of some sort.

[Wes Tender]

Lowe and five directors resigned from the board in the interests of club unity...

 

What a man of honour and principle. A picture forms in my mind of Lowe as some Sydney Carton figure climbing the scaffold prepared for the guillotine saying "It's a far better thing I do..."

 

Of course, the reality is that he and those directors were about to be deposed in ignominy for their abject failures by an EGM called by the very Quisling who now props up this current most unpopular regime running the club. Lowe and Wilde don't act out of a desire for unity; they act out of their own selfish interests. If they acted out of a desire for unity, they would both sell their shares and leave the club for good, as there can never be unity while they are here.

[bungle]

We beat Reading and lo and behold alpine still manages to be the worlds most negative person.

[alpine_saint]

I posted on Friday afternoon that the results had been signed off by the auditors and were likely to be released this morning.

 

Last time I checked, Friday came before Saturday, and therefore before the Reading game.

 

And last time I checked, Monday is the first business day after Saturday.

 

Tell me Steve, seeing as all Trust grandees seem to be in the pocket of the club nowadays, would these results have been posted today if we had lost 5-0 on Saturday, or would they have been held back until in the hope of a potential win against Plymouth ?

[slickmick]

To be honest I think that was a very good article, its honest (albeit very daming to the last regime) and gives the impression that we are doing are hhardest to begin to operate within our means.

Be intersting to see how our finances look in six months/ a year when spme of these cost cutting have taken effect.

 

 

He also singled out how passionate our support was at Reading and how important we are, calling for everyone to pull together to help us out of this mess.

Fair play to you Rupert.

[bungle]

And last time I checked, Monday is the first business day after Saturday.

 

Tell me Steve, seeing as all Trust grandees seem to be in the pocket of the club nowadays, would these results have been posted today if we had lost 5-0 on Saturday, or would they have been held back until in the hope of a potential win against Plymouth ?

 

You can see by the comments in the article that these results were published before the Reading game as there are quotes about the large number of fans about to travel. Of course, you think all people who go to away games are "idiots".

[Window Cleaner]

And last time I checked, Monday is the first business day after Saturday.

 

Tell me Steve, seeing as all Trust grandees seem to be in the pocket of the club nowadays, would these results have been posted today if we had lost 5-0 on Saturday, or would they have been held back until in the hope of a potential win against Plymouth ?

 

Well yes they would,hard to accept but there it is;

[alpine_saint]

You can see by the comments in the article that these results were published before the Reading game as there are quotes about the large number of fans about to travel. Of course, you think all people who go to away games are "idiots".

 

It proves NOTHING of the sort. I proves the release was possibly written before the game, that's all.

[paris]

Burley Out!!!!

...preparing us for the sale of our final decent established or fast-improving players in January.

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/3871404.Saints_announce___4_9m_loss_/

 

Isnt it nice that the club is run in an honest and utterly non-cynical manner ??

[saintjay77]

Strange we all got KJ's sale fee well wrong, also strange no mention of the sale

of Pélé to West Brom, either for 2006/7 or 2007/8, what's that about then.

See we got 3.1 add on for Theo,but all in all the player sales are far from

what I thought they'd be. Never did understand the 9.1 million profit shown in the trading report, I can see why now as 3.1 million came from Theo and Pélé

looks to have moved on for free or on a never never deal of some sort.

 

I think they were just mentioning the players that came from our acadamy so pele wasn't mentioned.

[Window Cleaner]

I think they were just mentioning the players that came from our acadamy so pele wasn't mentioned.

 

Do the figures add up ?

Haven't checked

 

So 4.8+3+0.7+3.1=11.6 million. Adding on Pélé for 0.9 million comes to 12.5 million meaning we spent 3.1 million on players.

Safri,Saga and Davies make up 2.2 million leaving 0.9 million (or the price we got for Pélé) adrift. Probably paid something for Euell I suppose.

Edited 24 November, 2008 by Window Cleaner

[saintjay77]

It proves NOTHING of the sort. I proves the release was possibly written before the game, that's all.

 

Possibly???? Dont you think that had they written it after the Reading game they might have mentioned how we played Reading off the park with the Total Dutch football and there revolutionary new coaching set up?

 

Alot of the peice is written in a way to look favourable on the board and it takes some reading to see through to get to the facts but you have to be deliberatly argumentative to see it as some kind of conspirecy and cover up.

[saintjay77]

Do the figures add up ?

Haven't checked

 

Not sure about the figures but the ones that were mentioned were our home grown players. I cant remember if it was only Pele that was not homegrown that got sold in the same period though?

[alpine_saint]

Possibly???? Dont you think that had they written it after the Reading game they might have mentioned how we played Reading off the park with the Total Dutch football and there revolutionary new coaching set up?

 

Alot of the peice is written in a way to look favourable on the board and it takes some reading to see through to get to the facts but you have to be deliberatly argumentative to see it as some kind of conspirecy and cover up.

 

Yes, possibly. If it had referred to the Reading result, there would have been zero subtlety about the spin element and would have been easier to dismiss.

 

I am not saying it was written after the Reading game, but it IS still possible that it was.

[Window Cleaner]

Not sure about the figures but the ones that were mentioned were our home grown players. I cant remember if it was only Pele that was not homegrown that got sold in the same period though?

 

Here's the passage from the full AR on the OS

 

Player trading

Player trading represents the profit and loss on disposal of players’ registrations less the amortisation of players’ registrations. The net income from player trading was £9.4m which compares to a net income of £5.0m in the prior period.

Profit on disposal of players’ registrations amounted to £12.7m and this was largely attributable to the sale of Kenwyne Jones to Sunderland, Chris Baird to Fulham, Pele to West Brom and the early settlement of amounts due from Arsenal for contingent appearances to be made by Theo Walcott. Since the year end further player sales have taken place including Youssef Safri, Andrew Davies and Cedric Baseya. In addition further funds have been raised from the early settlement of amounts due from Spurs for the contingent appearances to be made by Gareth Bale.

Six new players were added to the squad during the financial year at a cost of £4.8m. They include purchases of the registrations of Andrew Davies, Stern John, Jason Euell, Youssef Safri, Marek Saganowski and Wayne Thomas under the previous management and Morgan Schneiderlin under the current Board. As a consequence player amortisation increased from £2.6m to £3.3m.

[Leslie Charteris]

Has anyone, can anyone come up with a better alternative than Lowe's plan? He gets a lot of criticism on here, but I still have yet to see what else the club can do in the real world. (Takeover? Ha!)

 

Any suggestions from abroad?