What is wrong with America

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Yeah, of course he was 😂😂😂😂

And Nigel Farage's "Breaking Point poster wasn't meant to mimic the Nazi's photo. I'm sorry, but don't be so fucking stupid.

You're being pathetic. It's entirely obvious that his issue was with the concept of DEI in hiring. He has explained it himself in detail and he's absolutely correct.

[rallyboy]

4 hours ago, iansums said:

You do realise that it’s possible to agree with some of his views but disagree with others?

Really? I'm staggered, thanks for letting me know.

[Farmer Saint]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

Because he was discussing a specific DEI policy where United Airlines said they wanted 40% of their pilots to be people of colour or women. They relax standards in order to reach racial quotas so if he sees a black person he's going to hope that that policy is not in place and that that person is qualified.

When they say people of colour and women, is black the only option? To think that this was just clumsy words, and their wasn't a point behind it is hugely naive.

[Farmer Saint]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

You're being pathetic. It's entirely obvious that his issue was with the concept of DEI in hiring. He has explained it himself in detail and he's absolutely correct.

Genuinely, don't be so naive.

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Literally, what did he say. Give me the quote.

It's very clear what he means. He explains it in detail here but you won't watch it because you don't want to understand, you'd rather quote one line out of context and call it racist.

 

[aintforever]

3 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Because he was discussing a specific DEI policy where United Airlines said they wanted 40% of their pilots to be people of colour or women. They relax standards in order to reach racial quotas so if he sees a black person he's going to hope that that policy is not in place and that that person is qualified.

Is it DEI policy to hire unqualified pilots?

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Farmer Saint said:

When they say people of colour and women, is black the only option? To think that this was just clumsy words, and their wasn't a point behind it is hugely naive.

So if he'd chosen women as an example you'd have called him sexist? 

[Farmer Saint]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

It's very clear what he means. He explains it in detail here but you won't watch it because you don't want to understand, you'd rather quote one line out of context and call it racist.

 

I have watched it, I understand it, I also think he's a racist and his language is not accidental.

[hypochondriac]

Just now, aintforever said:

Is it DEI policy to hire unqualified pilots?

He clarifies "under qualified" in the video I just posted. He explains it well and what he's said is correct.

[Farmer Saint]

Just now, aintforever said:

Is it DEI policy to hire unqualified pilots?

Apparently so. They were going down to Compton to pick up black blokes to fly out of LAX. Thank fuck Captain Kirk was there to tell them that white men are the only people that should fly planes.

[Farmer Saint]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

So if he'd chosen women as an example you'd have called him sexist? 

Nope, misogynistic.

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

29 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

He didn’t say that at all.

What he said in response to a question was United Airlines wanted to employ 50% women and people of colour (their description). He said that because of that policy it would mean that you wouldn’t necessarily get the best people for the job as you are prioritising someone’s profile instead of their competency . This would reduce standards for pilots in this scenario. He didn’t say they wouldn’t be qualified.  He said the quality would reduce, and therefore DEI profiling lowers standards and this is why DEI isn’t good, in his opinion.
 

He is also using pilots as an example only - the principle he is arguing is intended to apply to a range of roles

Piss poor example to use pilots. When the airline industry would have the some of the most stringent tests and qualifications going.

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Farmer Saint said:

I have watched it, I understand it, I also think he's a racist and his language is not accidental.

I don't believe you watched it but if you did it is clear we will never agree because our world views are diametrically opposed. I can only hope that people who think as you do are never in a position to implement these things in this country.

[Sir Ralph]

11 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

It's very clear what he means. He explains it in detail here but you won't watch it because you don't want to understand, you'd rather quote one line out of context and call it racist.

 

He is quoting out of context on purpose. He already posted quotes earlier which were shown to be incorrect. I’ll await the Dubai comment 

Edited 14 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Farmer Saint said:

Nope, misogynistic.

So there was no example he could have used according to you without being branded in some fashion. 

[Farmer Saint]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

So there was no example he could have used according to you without being branded in some fashion. 

Not with his prior history of fascism, no.

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, JohnnyShearer2.0 said:

Piss poor example to use pilots. When the airline industry would have the some of the most stringent tests and qualifications going.

Watch the video. He also used other examples such as college admissions. There has been DEI schemes where standards have been lowered and shortcuts taken in order to discriminate based on skin colour.

[aintforever]

3 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

He clarifies "under qualified" in the video I just posted. He explains it well and what he's said is correct.

I thought his quote was “"If I see a Black pilot, I’m going to be like, boy, I hope he’s qualified.".

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Farmer Saint said:

Not with his prior history of fascism, no.

Ah OK I thought you were having a semi serious discussion. It seems you were just trolling fair enough.

[Sir Ralph]

1 minute ago, Farmer Saint said:

Not with his prior history of fascism, no.

Are you pissed?

[hypochondriac]

Just now, aintforever said:

I thought his quote was “"If I see a Black pilot, I’m going to be like, boy, I hope he’s qualified.".

Like I said, he clarifies what he means in the video I posted. 

[Farmer Saint]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

I don't believe you watched it but if you did it is clear we will never agree because our world views are diametrically opposed. I can only hope that people who think as you do are never in a position to implement these things in this country.

Implement what things? I'm planning my way out of this country as soon as I can. I used to be a one world Tory. Over the last 10 years I have come to hate this country and a lot of the people in it. I am planning my way out, but when you're asset rich it isn't the easiest country to remove yourself from (Sir Ralph still won't understand this).

There are too many examples on this forum and in this country of people, like yourself, who are just plain nasty people. There is no compassion, no kindness, no empathy. There is hatred towards their fellow man/woman because of colour, religion, sex, and it is so fucking sad.

Genuinely, I think you need to take a long hard look at yourself. I presume you don't have children, and I would presume that Sir Ralph doesn't either. I would recommend it, because it gives you an additional outlook on life that makes you less self-centered, more empathetic and less of an all-round cunt than you seem to show yourself on a day to day basis on a fucking football forum.

[egg]

I have to say, the video as a whole gives a different presentation than the isolated quotes. However, the fundamental point for me is that he seems to assume that in meeting a quota, it's right to question whether some of the black people who've made it through may be unqualified. It's not correct to think that way, and it's racial prejudice all day long.

It's entirely possible to meet a quota and have sufficiently qualified people fly the planes. Moreover, no airline company on the planet is going to throw an incompetent Muppet into a plane cabin because they're black. 

[Farmer Saint]

7 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

Are you pissed?

Sorry, you don't think he is a fascist? Are you mental?

[Farmer Saint]

Just now, egg said:

I have to say, the video as a whole gives a different presentation than the isolated quotes. However, the fundamental point for me is that he seems to assume that in meeting a quota, it's right to question whether some of the black people who've made it through may be unqualified. It's not correct to think that way, and it's racial prejudice all day long.

It's entirely possible to meet a quota and have sufficiently qualified people fly the planes. Moreover, no airline company on the planet is going to throw an incompetent Muppet into a plane cabin because they're black. 

No, apparently they do. I'm sure Hypo and Sir Ralph will come up with the stats.

[aintforever]

8 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Like I said, he clarifies what he means in the video I posted. 

Are what he says he meant and what he actually meant the same thing though?

[Farmer Saint]

I see Trousers is finding things funny again.

The funniest thing is I'm pretty sure I've spent an evening with him before and we got on very well. 

[Sir Ralph]

1 minute ago, Farmer Saint said:

Sorry, you don't think he is a fascist? Are you mental?

No - if you think he is a facist it doesn’t fit the below definition. Let’s deal in facts. How does he meet the definition on this basis? 

fascist is a follower or proponent of fascism, a far-right political ideology characterized by extreme nationalism, authoritarian rule by a single party and dictator, and totalitarian control over society. Fascism places the nation above all else, opposing individual rights, democracy, and often using violence and oppression to maintain power and achieve national unity. Notable examples include Benito Mussolini in Italy and Adolf Hitler in Germany. 

[trousers]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

he seems to assume that in meeting a quota, it's right to question whether some of the black people who've made it through may be unqualified.

No, in the video I've watched he clearly says "maybe less qualified" not 'maybe unqualified'. (Caveat: I've yet to watch the original video)

[trousers]

3 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

I see Trousers is finding things funny again.

The funniest thing is I'm pretty sure I've spent an evening with him before and we got on very well. 

Are you my wife?

[Sir Ralph]

5 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Implement what things? I'm planning my way out of this country as soon as I can. I used to be a one world Tory. Over the last 10 years I have come to hate this country and a lot of the people in it. I am planning my way out, but when you're asset rich it isn't the easiest country to remove yourself from (Sir Ralph still won't understand this).

There are too many examples on this forum and in this country of people, like yourself, who are just plain nasty people. There is no compassion, no kindness, no empathy. There is hatred towards their fellow man/woman because of colour, religion, sex, and it is so fucking sad.

Genuinely, I think you need to take a long hard look at yourself. I presume you don't have children, and I would presume that Sir Ralph doesn't either. I would recommend it, because it gives you an additional outlook on life that makes you less self-centered, more empathetic and less of an all-round cunt than you seem to show yourself on a day to day basis on a fucking football forum.

I have children and I agree it takes the edges of you. I see the world much differently than before kids. You talk about empathy and kindness but your posts don’t really reflect that in the way you engage with people if I’m being honest. I’m not saying I’m an angel either. Not being rude or trying to wind you up just an observation as I know you have broad enough shoulders to take it. I mean you called us both c bombs in the above message

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Are what he says he meant and what he actually meant the same thing though?

In the context of the discussion it was very obvious what he meant. 

 

5 minutes ago, egg said:

I have to say, the video as a whole gives a different presentation than the isolated quotes. However, the fundamental point for me is that he seems to assume that in meeting a quota, it's right to question whether some of the black people who've made it through may be unqualified. It's not correct to think that way, and it's racial prejudice all day long.

It's entirely possible to meet a quota and have sufficiently qualified people fly the planes. Moreover, no airline company on the planet is going to throw an incompetent Muppet into a plane cabin because they're black. 

He's arguing against the lowering of standards in general in order to meet quotas. He's not necessarily saying don't try not to hire more black people, he's saying that those black people should meet the existing standard prior to the introduction of the DEI policy. He's right. If less black people or less of any ethnicity don't meet the standard then less should be hired which is what happens in a merit based systen.

[Farmer Saint]

1 minute ago, trousers said:

Are you my wife?

Not tonight.

[egg]

2 minutes ago, trousers said:

No, in the video I've watched he clearly says "maybe less qualified" not 'maybe unqualified'. (Caveat: I've yet to watch the original video)

Why does it matter if someone is less qualified than someone else if they are sufficiently qualified? 

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

5 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Watch the video. He also used other examples such as college admissions. There has been DEI schemes where standards have been lowered and shortcuts taken in order to discriminate based on skin colour.

We've gone down the rabbit hole. Quite simply put, Sir Ralph said he's never seen Charlie say anything derogatory. 

I disagreed on that point and quoted that pilot comment. In my opinion he was being derogatory.

No airline is gonna touch an under qualified pilot. It's a piss poor example, to have a go at DEI. 

[Farmer Saint]

1 minute ago, Sir Ralph said:

I have children and I agree it takes the edges of you. I see the world much differently than before kids. You talk about empathy and kindness but your posts don’t really reflect that in the way you engage with people if I’m being honest. I’m not saying I’m an angel either. Not being rude or trying to wind you up just an observation as I know you have broad enough shoulders to take it. I mean you called us both c bombs in the above message

I find it very alarming that someone with children, and from what it seems fairly well educated, can support someone like CK, without having fundamental cuntish issues. Sorry.

[egg]

Just now, JohnnyShearer2.0 said:

We've gone down the rabbit hole. Quite simply put, Sir Ralph said he's never seen Charlie say anything derogatory. 

I disagreed on that point and quoted that pilot comment. In my opinion he was being derogatory.

No airline is gonna touch an under qualified pilot. It's a piss poor example, to have a go at DEI. 

Yep. This. 

Everyone chosen under that policy will be sufficiently qualified to fly a plane. 

Having concerns to the contrary is based on prejudice. 

[Sir Ralph]

3 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

I find it very alarming that someone with children, and from what it seems fairly well educated, can support someone like CK, without having fundamental cuntish issues. Sorry.

Thats fine and you’re fully entitled to your opinion. We would probably actually get on ok in reality. 

also thanks for calling me fairly well educated - I’ll take that as a compliment. I’ll take your advice on board and try to be less of a c bomb 

If you move to Dubai I’ll give you my friends details so you can hang out with them 😉

Edited 13 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[hypochondriac]

19 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Implement what things? I'm planning my way out of this country as soon as I can. I used to be a one world Tory. Over the last 10 years I have come to hate this country and a lot of the people in it. I am planning my way out, but when you're asset rich it isn't the easiest country to remove yourself from (Sir Ralph still won't understand this).

There are too many examples on this forum and in this country of people, like yourself, who are just plain nasty people. There is no compassion, no kindness, no empathy. There is hatred towards their fellow man/woman because of colour, religion, sex, and it is so fucking sad.

Genuinely, I think you need to take a long hard look at yourself. I presume you don't have children, and I would presume that Sir Ralph doesn't either. I would recommend it, because it gives you an additional outlook on life that makes you less self-centered, more empathetic and less of an all-round cunt than you seem to show yourself on a day to day basis on a fucking football forum.

See these kind of posts are just sad. I don't know you in real life you could be a great person and a really warm and friendly guy but on here you come across like many of the worst people on the left -an unearned sense of moral superiority, preaching empathy but then demonstrating very little for people who you disagree with. You use crass language and fling around insults at people just because they see things differently to you and you brand people as ists and phobes rather than trying to understand others and you think you're the one with the empathy. 

I'm sure you're a very nice person offline but sadly not on here.

Edited 13 hours ago by hypochondriac

[trousers]

6 minutes ago, egg said:

Why does it matter if someone is less qualified than someone else if they are sufficiently qualified? 

His argument is that DEI can lower the qualification bar. I've no idea if he's right in that assertion but that's nothing to do with the "Is he racist?" debate. My understanding of what he's saying is that if the qualification pass mark is, say, 80%, would you rather have a pilot, surgeon, etc, who passed with a score of 95% or a score of 80%? Both "qualified" but one is better than the other... (a bit of a crude way of putting it, but that's his drift)

Edited 13 hours ago by trousers

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, JohnnyShearer2.0 said:

We've gone down the rabbit hole. Quite simply put, Sir Ralph said he's never seen Charlie say anything derogatory. 

I disagreed on that point and quoted that pilot comment. In my opinion he was being derogatory.

No airline is gonna touch an under qualified pilot. It's a piss poor example, to have a go at DEI. 

Under qualified means less qualified than the original standard. The standard will necessarily be lowered in order to reach the racial quota they are aiming for.

[Farmer Saint]

Just now, Sir Ralph said:

Thats fine and you’re fully entitled to your opinion. We would probably actually get on ok in reality. 
 

If you move to Dubai I’ll give you my friends details so you can hang out with them 😉

I would never move to Dubai TBF. Arse end of nowhere full of tax-dodging cunts. Despicable place full of despicable people.

You'll find me in the south of France or Amalfi coast, Tuscany maybe if I decide to buy a vineyard, but certainly not Dubai 😂😂😂

[hypochondriac]

6 minutes ago, egg said:

Why does it matter if someone is less qualified than someone else if they are sufficiently qualified? 

No one should get a job over somebody else if they are less qualified purely based on skin colour if everything else other than those two factors is equal. That woukd be the case the other way round too.

[Sir Ralph]

3 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

I would never move to Dubai TBF. Arse end of nowhere full of tax-dodging cunts. Despicable place full of despicable people.

You'll find me in the south of France or Amalfi coast, Tuscany maybe if I decide to buy a vineyard, but certainly not Dubai 😂😂😂

This feels weird - why are we being nice to each other? Maybe let’s both be a bit more respectful to each other in future posts

Edited 13 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[Farmer Saint]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

See these kind of posts are just sad. I don't know you in real life you could be a great person and a really warm and friendly guy but on here you come across like many of the worst people on the left -an unearned sense of moral superiority, preaching empathy but then demonstrating very little for people who you disagree with. You use crass language and fling around insults at people just because they see things differently to you and you brand people as it's and phones rather than trying to understand others and you think you're the one with the empathy. 

I'm sure you're a very nice person offline but sadly not on here.

We are all a persona. I fling around crass insults and the rest because it is a release on here. I am sure that a lot of people have noticed that when I am being serious, talking about my actual passions I will change my language and my rhetoric considerably.

Personally, I think I use this forum as a release. I cannot talk like this in the boardroom. I cannot talk like this to my employees. But a forum gives me the opportunity to release my frustrations of what this country and the world has become on a small sub-section of it. I am sure not everyone is as they seem on here, and that a number of people on here have good intentions.

Unfortunately, we see a single poster as a small sub-section of society, without the nuances and experiences that make that person an individual. We stereotype, we generalise and we project. It is what make the internet, online opinions and social media (of which this is a subset) so fucking dangerous.

[egg]

4 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Under qualified means less qualified than the original standard. The standard will necessarily be lowered in order to reach the racial quota they are aiming for.

If the standard is 80%, and all pass that, it's not lowering the standard. The standard is met. I'd take your point if the standard was say 90% but they had to engineer that downwards to meet a quota. He suggested that happened re Harvard. 

[Farmer Saint]

4 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

This feels weird - why are we being nice to each other? Maybe let’s both be a bit more respectful to each other in future posts

I'm happy with that. You've been off ignore for a few days now and you're writing with more purpose and honesty (IMHO), hence why I have been engaging you.

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Farmer Saint said:

We are all a persona. I fling around crass insults and the rest because it is a release on here. I am sure that a lot of people have noticed that when I am being serious, talking about my actual passions I will change my language and my rhetoric considerably.

Personally, I think I use this forum as a release. I cannot talk like this in the boardroom. I cannot talk like this to my employees. But a forum gives me the opportunity to release my frustrations of what this country and the world has become on a small sub-section of it. I am sure not everyone is as they seem on here, and that a number of people on here have good intentions.

Unfortunately, we see a single poster as a small sub-section of society, without the nuances and experiences that make that person an individual. We stereotype, we generalise and we project. It is what make the internet, online opinions and social media (of which this is a subset) so fucking dangerous.

It's only dangerous if you take online persons seriously and take those sort of things offline. I think soggy is a complete bellend but if I ever met him in real life I'm sure I could have a polite conversation and maybe a haircut from his black barber. We don't really know anyone on here (other than the few people I do actually know in real life) and I'm sure the majority are nothing like their online personality.

[Sir Ralph]

Just now, Farmer Saint said:

I'm happy with that. You've been off ignore for a few days now and you're writing with more purpose and honesty (IMHO), hence why I have been engaging you.

Ok agreed - I’ll put you on ignore if you keep calling me a c bomb though. 😆

[egg]

7 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

No one should get a job over somebody else if they are less qualified purely based on skin colour if everything else other than those two factors is equal. That woukd be the case the other way round too.

The merits of a quota system are entirely different to feeling it's ok to doubt someone's credentials, based on skin colour, when they've actually met a standard which was the standard prior to the quota. 

Fwiw, I disagree with quota's - hire on merit.