The Starmer Years - Can The New Broom Sweep Clean?

[Sir Ralph]

7 minutes ago, whelk said:

I thought this cunt would be in a care home by now

Still making the MP look pretty incompetent though. His questions werent even hard.

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

3 hours ago, Sir Ralph said:

Cant wait

Will you be in Dubai mate?

[Farmer Saint]

We still need to see a full Reform of benefits though...

[Sir Ralph]

[tdmickey3]

Enter your salary to see how much your take-home pay will reduce due to income tax threshold freeze | Money blog | Money News | Sky News

Did the tax calculator.

not as bad as being suggested, happy to pay my bit

Give it a try

Edited 7 hours ago by tdmickey3

[badgerx16]

12 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

So what about the budget left you unimpressed ?

[tdmickey3]

12 hours ago, Sir Ralph said:

You havent even read it have you. Best to leave it. I dont think some poster on here have a clue about economics. For an simple guide watch Badenoch explain it to Reeves at PMQs. 

Badenoch....... Hahahahahahahaha.... 

[Sir Ralph]

2 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

Badenoch....... Hahahahahahahaha.... 

here he is. The brains…the three word wonder. 

Edited 7 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[tdmickey3]

Just now, Sir Ralph said:

here he is. The brains…the three word wonder. 

Are you still mixing up PMQ`S with the Budget statement... 🤡 

[Sir Ralph]

5 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

So what about the budget left you unimpressed ?

I mean most media outlets have said it. No cuts and increased welfare spending unnecessarily at the cost of the tax payer and business. In a time of a cost of living crisis

They talk about growth. They have not one idea what that is. Where were their policies on growth?

[Sir Ralph]

3 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

Are you still mixing up PMQ`S with the Budget statement... 🤡 

Semantics. PMQs followed the budget speech. If that’s what you have got it’s pathetic. Goodbye

Edited 7 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[badgerx16]

1 minute ago, Sir Ralph said:

I mean most media outlets have said it. 

Would that be those media outlets that favour the Tories or Reform ?

[Sir Ralph]

5 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Would that be those media outlets that favour the Tories or Reform ?

Have you been under a rock for the past 24 hours?
No the times and independent. I read more centrist publications. That’s when you know there is a problem. Stop reading the daily mirror and the guardian. They are left wing. Expand your world view by reading a broader base. I read the guardian every now and again even though I disagree with it

Edited 7 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[badgerx16]

7 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

Have you been under a rock for the past 24 hours?
No the times and independent. I read more centrist publications. That’s when you know there is a problem. Stop reading the daily mirror and the guardian. They are left wing. Expand your world view by reading a broader base. I read the guardian every now and again even though I disagree with it

 

FYI, I don't read the Mirror or the Guardian. As a matter of fact I don't restrict myself to any specific news outlet. I read broadly and derive my own opinions.

Edited 7 hours ago by badgerx16

[Sir Ralph]

2 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

FYI, I don't read the Mirror or the Guardian. As a matter of fact I don't restrict myself to any specific news outlet. I read broadly and derive my own opinions.

Well as you can see middle of the road publications think this is a crap budget.

Edited 7 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[badgerx16]

5 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

Well as you can see middle of the road publications think this is a crap budget.

For me pesonally it was just a bit meh. But for years I have seen Tory budgets I disagreed with, and on occasion suffered from. My position is that Chancellors will always find ways to disappoint people, unless there is a GE due in the next few months.

[Sir Ralph]

3 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

For me pesonally it was just a bit meh. But for years I have seen Tory budgets I disagreed with, and on occasion suffered from. My position is that Chancellors will always find ways to disappoint people, unless there is a GE due in the next few months.

Fair enough 

[whelk]

27 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

Well as you can see middle of the road publications think this is a crap budget.

Interesting you need others to tell you what your view should be

[whelk]

Imagine the wailing if the markets reacted poorly? They didn’t of course - couldn’t have been paying attention to Andre Neil and Fraser Nelson and whatever bots run the Daily Express

[sadoldgit]

17 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

Have you been under a rock for the past 24 hours?
No the times and independent. I read more centrist publications. That’s when you know there is a problem. Stop reading the daily mirror and the guardian. They are left wing. Expand your world view by reading a broader base. I read the guardian every now and again even though I disagree with it

The Times (owned by Murdoch) is not remotely centralist. The Guardian is not “left wing” it is liberal (with a small L) and has been very critical of many of this governments decisions. Do you remember how much of the media supported the disaster of Liz Truss’s budget. Now that was a crap budget.

Every government has to raise money. Every government pisses of whoever they raise money from. Every government look to do this in their early years so they can bring in more favourable budgets nearer general elections.

The media have been trying to whip this one up as the end of Starmer and Reeves. Broken promises. Raised taxes. Doom and gloom. As it was this has been a bit of a damp squib. 

Listen to Norwegians talk about tax. They want decent public services and are prepared to pay for them. How do they do that? Through taxation.

Here we all want better public services but no one is prepared to pay more tax. The problem we have at the moment is that our public services have been so starved of cash that it is going to take a long time and continued high levels of tax to get them off their knees.

The Tories made this mess and have no idea how to sort it out. Reform would be a bigger disaster than Truss. All they have to offer is blaming immigrants for everything. You won’t find the LibDems cutting welfare spending so you wouldn’t be happy with them n power. 

I wish she had bitten the bullet and gone for higher income tax all round. By promising not to raise direct taxes she has made a rod for her own back. Governments need to be more direct about us all needing to pay for the type of country we want to live in. I think most of us want it to function properly at all levels - NHS, national and local infrastructure, local government, support for those who need it most etc. These become more expensive every year meaning we need to be prepared to pay more. All of us.

 

[Farmer Saint]

1 hour ago, Sir Ralph said:

Christ almighty - is some right wing meme off Facebook the best you can come up with after yesterday's budget?

The wish of the people was for a Labour government because we needed to fix our public services - that's why they won a landslide election. The people knew that meant an increase in funding to public services.

[Farmer Saint]

15 minutes ago, whelk said:

Interesting you need others to tell you what your view should be

Always been the same, he's never been able to stand on his own two feet and create a valid argument. He's an internet plagiarist. 

[Sir Ralph]

16 minutes ago, whelk said:

Interesting you need others to tell you what your view should be

Strange response. I don’t. I make my own mind up. I was using this to justify my position that there is a broad view that this budget is bad.

[Sir Ralph]

7 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Always been the same, he's never been able to stand on his own two feet and create a valid argument. He's an internet plagiarist. 

No I give evidence of my position. That why I do it. You give none ever. Centrist mainstream publications, which tend to be less politically motivated, are good evidence of the overall view of this budget. 

Keep reading the Morning Star

Edited 6 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[sadoldgit]

11 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

No I give evidence of my position. That why I do it. You give none ever. Evidence wins. Centrist mainstream publications, which tend to be less politically motivated, are good evidence of the overall view of this budget. 

 

The vast majority of the media in this country is own by very rich and powerful men who are mates with other rich and powerful men who want to remain rich and powerful. How many “centralist mainstream publications” do you think we have in the UK? Can you name them please?

As for the budget, whatever anyone thinks of it, like all budgets (apart from the Truss disaster) we won’t know the widespread effects of it for some time, despite people telling us that all of the rich people are leaving.

Edited 6 hours ago by sadoldgit

[sadoldgit]

I’ve just had a look at the front pages today. Apparently taking children out of poverty is rewarding “skivers.” Little wonder Reform is doing well in the polls when they have the mainstream media in their pocket.

[egg]

1 hour ago, tdmickey3 said:

Enter your salary to see how much your take-home pay will reduce due to income tax threshold freeze | Money blog | Money News | Sky News

Did the tax calculator.

not as bad as being suggested, happy to pay my bit

Give it a try

Yep. The difference is minimal. 

[Turkish]

9 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

I’ve just had a look at the front pages today. Apparently taking children out of poverty is rewarding “skivers.” Little wonder Reform is doing well in the polls when they have the mainstream media in their pocket.

Do you mean you’ve been desperately looking at the news to find something you didn’t like so you could post on here about how nasty reform are?

[whelk]

24 minutes ago, egg said:

Yep. The difference is minimal. 

Other than the income tax thresholds can’t see anything to cause all the moans. Even that is not a new thing and no one was expecting them to be unfrozen. 

[whelk]

2 hours ago, Sir Ralph said:

That is an embarrassing post, even for you 

[badgerx16]

52 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

 

Keep reading the Morning Star

The Morning Star this morning:

"CHANCELLOR Rachel Reeves ducked the hard choices in a bob-and-weave budget today designed to keep the floundering Labour government afloat."

[tdmickey3]

4 minutes ago, whelk said:

Other than the income tax thresholds can’t see anything to cause all the moans. Even that is not a new thing and no one was expecting them to be unfrozen. 

Yep.

Most people don`t really understand it but get stoked up by bias newspapers, social media and the screeching from idiots like Badenoch and Stride...

[tdmickey3]

6 minutes ago, whelk said:

That is an embarrassing post, even for you 

 

1 minute ago, badgerx16 said:

The Morning Star this morning:

"CHANCELLOR Rachel Reeves ducked the hard choices in a bob-and-weave budget today designed to keep the floundering Labour government afloat."

The embarrassment of Ralphy....

[whelk]

47 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

The vast majority of the media in this country is own by very rich and powerful men who are mates with other rich and powerful men who want to remain rich and powerful

Yep and have it off to art form how to whip up with misinformation to the gullible. 
And the gullible pigeon hole the independent thinkers who challenge as the loony left. 
Sheep

[Sir Ralph]

26 minutes ago, whelk said:

That is an embarrassing post, even for you 

A more detailed summary than I have seen from any of the pro-Labour lot on here though. All that has been posted by the lefties is 'we just need to spend more money on public services' and no real justification for it or whether the impact on 'real' working people is acceptable. There has been no comments from the lefties on why there have been no reduction in public spending or welfare (but an increase instead) and therefore the government is taxing the whole nation more (when it said it would not). Why?  This is the question nobody can answer.

Also someone on here said people voted for this Government and this budget. They absolutely did not. The Governments manifesto talked about no tax rises. So, people did not vote for this.

Edited 5 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[whelk]

3 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

A more detailed summary than I have seen from any of the pro-Labour lot on here though. All that has been posted by the lefties is 'we just need to spend more money on public services'. There has been no comments from the lefties on why there have been no reduction in public spending or welfare (but an increase instead). Why? 

The ‘lefties’ are mostly just shrugging unlike you getting yourself so worked up.

List out the specific points you are unhappy about without quoting some banal bollocks like ‘you are better off on benefits than working for minimum wage’.
Your own thoughts please?

Although I am prepared for your ramblings, given you somehow don’t understand that we have not elected a right-wing Tory govt and you were hoping Labour would be slashing public services in complete contradiction of their manifesto.

[tdmickey3]

9 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

A more detailed summary than I have seen from any of the pro-Labour lot on here though. All that has been posted by the lefties is 'we just need to spend more money on public services' and no real justification for it or whether the impact on 'real' working people is acceptable. There has been no comments from the lefties on why there have been no reduction in public spending or welfare (but an increase instead) and therefore the government is taxing the whole nation more (when it said it would not). Why?  This is the question nobody can answer.

Also someone on here said people voted for this Government and this budget. They absolutely did not. The Governments manifesto talked about no tax rises. So, people did not vote for this.

Key budget announcements at a glance

Here's what Rachel Reeves has announced:

OBR downgrades growth forecast by 0.3 percentage points

Fiscal headroom doubled to £22bn in 2029-30

Freeze on tax thresholds extended by three years

Mansion tax of £2,500 on properties over £2m and £7,500 on those over £5m

Two-child benefit cap scrapped from April

Cash ISA limit slashed by £8,000 - except for over-65s

Fuel duty to be frozen until next September

Salary-sacrifice pension contributions above £2,000 to be subject to national insurance

Basic and new state pension rates increased by 4.8%

Minimum wage increased by 4.1% from April, with 6%-8.5% increases for younger workers

£150 cuts to average household energy bill from April

Mileage tax for electric vehicles from April 2028

£200m to boost EV charging rollout

"Luxury car tax" threshold raised to £50,000

£1.3bn extra funding for electric car grant

VAT discount for ride-hailing apps cut

£13bn of funding for seven mayors

£370m for Northern Ireland executive, £505m for the Welsh government and £820m for the Scottish government

£5m for secondary school libraries and £18m to improve playgrounds in England

£4.9bn invested back into NHS after local government cuts

Funding to make training under-25 apprentices free for smaller businesses

Student loan repayments threshold frozen for three years

Tax rates on property savings and dividend income increased by two percentage points

Inheritance tax change to allow transfer of 100% relief allowance between spouses

Remote gaming duty raised to 40%

Duty on online betting increased to 25%

 

Taken from Sky News website

[badgerx16]

6 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

Key budget announcements at a glance

Here's what Rachel Reeves has announced:

OBR downgrades growth forecast by 0.3 percentage points

Fiscal headroom doubled to £22bn in 2029-30

Freeze on tax thresholds extended by three years

Mansion tax of £2,500 on properties over £2m and £7,500 on those over £5m

Two-child benefit cap scrapped from April

Cash ISA limit slashed by £8,000 - except for over-65s

Fuel duty to be frozen until next September

Salary-sacrifice pension contributions above £2,000 to be subject to national insurance

Basic and new state pension rates increased by 4.8%

Minimum wage increased by 4.1% from April, with 6%-8.5% increases for younger workers

£150 cuts to average household energy bill from April

Mileage tax for electric vehicles from April 2028

£200m to boost EV charging rollout

"Luxury car tax" threshold raised to £50,000

£1.3bn extra funding for electric car grant

VAT discount for ride-hailing apps cut

£13bn of funding for seven mayors

£370m for Northern Ireland executive, £505m for the Welsh government and £820m for the Scottish government

£5m for secondary school libraries and £18m to improve playgrounds in England

£4.9bn invested back into NHS after local government cuts

Funding to make training under-25 apprentices free for smaller businesses

Student loan repayments threshold frozen for three years

Tax rates on property savings and dividend income increased by two percentage points

Inheritance tax change to allow transfer of 100% relief allowance between spouses

Remote gaming duty raised to 40%

Duty on online betting increased to 25%

 

Taken from Sky News website

Every point there is a disaster and negatively impacts every one of us.

( Have I got that right, Ralph ? )

Edited 5 hours ago by badgerx16

[Sir Ralph]

Just now, whelk said:

The ‘lefties’ are mostly just shrugging unlike you getting yourself so worked up.

List out the specific points you are unhappy about without quoting some banal bollocks like ‘you are better off on benefits than working for minimum wage’.
Your own thoughts please?

Although I am prepared for your ramblings, given you somehow don’t understand that we have not elected a right-wing Tory govt and you were hoping Labour would be slashing public services in complete contradiction of their manifesto.

I get annoyed because half of you are clueless about the economy and the real impact. Some of this is basic if you speak to business owners. The Government promised not to increase taxes for people. Their budget has done just that because of decisions they have made elsewhere around public spending and welfare. They would not have been elected if they had told people what they were going to do. If you

1. As a principle increasing taxes during a cost of living crisis should be last resort. The Government promised not to increase taxes and were elected on this basis. Do you dispute this?

2. They should have cut welfare and not increased it. The Cabinet wanted to do this and so there is clear evidence that this was possible. Do you dispute this? They have increased welfare spending because of their backbenchers not because it was the sensible economic approach.

3. They havent reduced public spending before increasing taxes. I revert to the article by Starmer where he said this was possible.https://www.civilserviceworld.com/professions/article/starmer-too-many-civil-servants-comfortable-in-tepid-bath-of-managed-decline  Is Starmer wrong? I quote: Starmer also criticised public sector productivity. The PM said productivity in the public sector has dropped by 2.6% compared to a year ago, and is 8.5% lower than just before the Covid-19 pandemic. He says this “wouldn’t be accepted in any other sector or walk of life” and that he will not subsidise lower productivity "with ever-rising taxes on the British people”.

 4.They bang on about economic growth being important (albeit they have no clue what it means). Which parts of the budget yesterday will increase growth and jobs? I can tell you that the pension tax, increased dividend tax, mansion tax, tourist tax, freezing income tax thresholds will do the opposite. 

5. I understand that you need to keep things fiscally tight but there are so many other ways of doing this. There is no justification for the all out tax approach for the second budget in a row.

[whelk]

5 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

get annoyed because half of you are clueless about the economy

I’m so tempted to let you know what my degree was in

[Sir Ralph]

1 minute ago, whelk said:

I’m so tempted to let you know what my degree was in

Economics. Some of the people in the civil service have them too. Doesnt mean that gives you an understanding of the real world impacts. What do you think to the questions I posed bearing in mind I set out my position?

Edited 4 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[badgerx16]

Most of the increase in public spending is in reforms to disability payments and removing the 2 child limit on means tested benefits.

Are helping the disabled and lifting nearly 500 thousand children out of poverty bad things ?

Edited 3 hours ago by badgerx16
missing i

[badgerx16]

1 minute ago, Sir Ralph said:

Economics. Some of the people in the civil service have them too. Doesnt mean you understand the real world impacts. 

You don't like the budget. We know. So what ?

Ranting on here won't change RR's mind.

"Real World impacts"; did the Pound crash, are the markets in meltdown ?

Edited 4 hours ago by badgerx16

[Sir Ralph]

3 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

You don't like the budget. We know. So what ?

Ranting on here won't change RR's mind.

People say I talk BS when I make a point. They ask me to justify my position. I do, comprehensively. They cant respond and say I'm ranting. What are answers to my questions then. I anticipate they will be ignored.....again.

Edited 4 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[badgerx16]

4 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

People say I talk BS when I make a point. They ask me to justify my position. I do, comprehensively. They cant respond and say I'm ranting. What are answers to my questions then.

( Finger slipped in typing my reply, I will try again )

Edited 4 hours ago by badgerx16

[whelk]

4 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

Economics. Some of the people in the civil service have them too. Doesnt mean that gives you an understanding of the real world impacts. What do you think to the questions I posed bearing in mind I set out my position?

We are ideologically different. Wishing something to happen and making it happen are very different. You seem to think there are so many levers they choose not to pull that will simply generate growth. I could make a comment about being clueless as to how economies work.

I benefit not one bit from any of the welfare changes but am privileged enough not to have ever worried about having enough money to feed and clothe my kids - Newsflash - some of those people are the salt of the earth and work damn hard caring for others, not ‘skivers’. 
Surprised you aren’t up in arms about state pension rise over inflation - those old parasites doing fuck all to grow the economy, just relying on your taxes.

I am actually pessimistic about any party turning around the decline of the western economies. 

[badgerx16]

21 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

People say I talk BS when I make a point. They ask me to justify my position. I do, comprehensively. They cant respond and say I'm ranting. What are answers to my questions then. I anticipate they will be ignored.....again.

How do you know a Politician is lying ? Their lips are moving.

You post your justificatiions, people disagree with you. When your position is not immediately accepted you double down and go up a gear. Were you as agitated when successive Tory PMs were having their levers pulled by the ERG ?

I am not a macro-economics expert. Like the vast majority of people my reaction to any budget is primarily "How does this affect me ?". In this instance the answer is hardly at all, and this seems to be the concensus view.  Some of the measures I approve of, some I'm ambivalent about, some, I admit, I don't fully understand. What Reeves seems to be trying to do is steady the ship now, and pay for it later when things have improved fiscally.

This is obviously a risk, but I don't see it as being any more of a gamble than most previous budgets - long term predictions are no more than smoke snd mirrors guesses anyway.

Edited 4 hours ago by badgerx16

[tdmickey3]

Just now, badgerx16 said:

How do you know a Politician is lying ? Their lips are moving.

You post your justificatiions, people disagree with you. When your position is not immediately accepted you double down and go up a gear. Were you as agitated when successive Tory PMs were having their levers pulled by the ERG ?

I am not a macro-economics expert. Like the vast majority of people my reaction to any budget is primarily "How does this affect me ?". In this instance the answer is hardly at all, and this seems to be the concensus view.  Some of the measures I approve of, some I'm ambivalent about, some, I admit, I don't fully understand. What Reeves seems to be trying to do is steady the ship now, and pay for it later when things have improved fiscally.

This is obviously a risk, but I don't see it as being any more of a gamble than most previous budgets - long term preductions are no more than smoke snd mirrors guesses anyway.

Nicely put but it wont stop this self confessed "expert" from frothing

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

The Morning Star this morning:

"CHANCELLOR Rachel Reeves ducked the hard choices in a bob-and-weave budget today designed to keep the floundering Labour government afloat."

Pretty much spot on…

[Lord Duckhunter]

21 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

this instance the answer is hardly at all, and this seems to be the concensus view.

The salary sacrifice stuff looks like it could be something with unintended consequences long term. It won’t affect my age group too much as it’s delayed (probably in the hope it won’t need to be implemented), but it will end up giving younger people less in retirement. Whilst not as far reaching as Gordon Brown , who basically killed FS pensions in the private sector, it will widen the generation gap when it comes to pensions and when people can retire.