Solving the Immigration Problem

[Farmer Saint]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

This is exactly my point and its been going round in circle for years on here😂

People ask what the solution is and then whatever is suggested people immediately say its unrealistic, not workable etc

Its a completely pointless discussion. 

 

Ok, so why don't we play this straw man. Why won't you accept that something doesn't have a workable solution?

(I think there are workable solutions by the way, just none that would be acceptable to the British public).

Edited 8 hours ago by Farmer Saint

[Osvaldorama]

Just now, Farmer Saint said:

Ok, so why don't we play this straw man. Why won't you accept that something doesn't have a workable solution?

It’s a low iq conversation. 
 

Same as when people say “Saints shouldn’t replace the manager, who will you replace them with”. 
 

You just move the target of the conversation away from the genuine issues to try and stifle it

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, Farmer Saint said:

Ok, so why don't we play this straw man. Why won't you accept that something doesn't have a workable solution?

Because im not voted in to come up with solutions to situations that as you yourself say, no one wants. 

[hypochondriac]

4 hours ago, egg said:

At last a sensible contribution. Where are people held though after arrival? Detention centre with basic needs met? I'd have no issue with that. 

Yep. If you put enough pressure on countries I'd hope to have them processed and out as soon as possible. With some countries you coukd probably get it down to a few days. Once you have the system in place and you know that it's working, the numbers attempting to come on the boats would massively drop so it would become less of a problem.

Edited 4 hours ago by hypochondriac

[whelk]

1 minute ago, Osvaldorama said:

It’s a low iq conversation

😂

[Farmer Saint]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

Because im not voted in to come up with solutions to situations that as you yourself say, no one wants. 

But then how do you know there is a solution? That's too much of a get out. People on here give their opinions on stuff they're not qualified to all the time, and then give this argument when the question is too hard for them.

Edited 8 hours ago by Farmer Saint

[Osvaldorama]

Just now, Farmer Saint said:

But then how do you know there is a solution?

Because we are a fucking G7 nation with nuclear weapons and a navy. 
 

Of course there are solutions. 

[Farmer Saint]

1 minute ago, whelk said:

😂

The irony is fucking beautiful

[Farmer Saint]

Just now, Osvaldorama said:

Because we are a fucking G7 nation with nuclear weapons and a navy. 
 

Of course there are solutions. 

So you're going to nuke them are you?

[Osvaldorama]

Just now, Farmer Saint said:

So you're going to nuke them are you?

Yes, clearly what I meant 🤡 

[Farmer Saint]

Just now, Osvaldorama said:

Yes, clearly what I meant 🤡 

Well what was the relevance of that then? 🤡 

Edited 8 hours ago by Farmer Saint

[hypochondriac]

11 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

That's effectively what we have now anyway.

It would take a long time, a lot of money and a huge amount of space to build a specific centre to deal with 30k people.

It would take some money though arguably not loads more thw cwe currently spend on all the assorted fixes that don't work. Once this was up and running it would cease to be a significant problem and the costs would reduce.

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, Farmer Saint said:

So you're going to nuke them are you?

Its a solution, so it answered your question to me. We know there is at least one.

[egg]

6 minutes ago, Turkish said:

This is exactly my point and its been going round in circle for years on here😂

People ask what the solution is and then whatever is suggested people immediately say its unrealistic, not workable etc

Its a completely pointless discussion. 

 

Yep, although most people just moan about the problem and make no suggestions. They don't even say where (last country or origin) when they say send them back, let alone think about the reality of any country accepting them. 

[Farmer Saint]

Just now, Turkish said:

Its a solution, so it answered your question to me. We know there is at least one.

You are being facetious aren't you? You're not seriously advocating a nuclear explosion on British soil to kill men, women and children?

[Gloucester Saint]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

This is exactly my point and its been going round in circle for years on here😂

People ask what the solution is and then whatever is suggested people immediately say its unrealistic, not workable etc

Its a completely pointless discussion. 

 

It’s similar to when I saw Michael Howard and David Blunkett interviewed about their time as Home Secretary.

Blunkett was asked about the successes in reducing anti-social behaviour offences but violent crime rising. Blunkett replied to say that you pull one lever and have some quantitative success but then another area of your brief creates a major headache.

Howard added that he’d challenged civil servants when they said he’d have success in one category but another would get worse as resources shifted, as Blunkett had, but had to concede they were right in the end.

It’s similar to small boats, government has squeezed them to the extent the number of ASs per boat has increased hugely and very difficult to get launched, engines seized, prison sentences here and France/Germany.

Even if we create legal routes albeit with low success rates and make it automatic ban on cases for small boats arrival, the gangs will switch back to infiltration of large trucks.

Small boats are one battle in an ongoing war. Win it but will be straight onto the next ones. 

 

[egg]

6 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Because im not voted in to come up with solutions to situations that as you yourself say, no one wants. 

That's another way of saying, I know there's no easy solution, but there should be, and adds absolutely nothing to sensible discussion. 

[Turkish]

7 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

You are being facetious aren't you? You're not seriously advocating a nuclear explosion on British soil to kill men, women and children?

You asked me how do i know there is a solution, well that's one isnt it. So there is a solution, it might one no one likes but is one. 

PS dont see many women and kids on the boats, do you?

Edited 8 hours ago by Turkish

[Osvaldorama]

Just now, egg said:

Yep, although most people just moan about the problem and make no suggestions. They don't even say where (last country or origin) when they say send them back, let alone think about the reality of any country accepting them. 

That’s because it’s a waste of time to have that conversation. 
 

Anyone with an IQ of above 80 can write a list of hundreds of possible solutions. (It seems a couple of people on here don’t have that)

The point is we aren’t doing any of them. Things are still getting worse.
 

And the government is pretending that they have a handle on it. 

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, egg said:

That's another way of saying, I know there's no easy solution, but there should be, and adds absolutely nothing to sensible discussion. 

There isn't an easy solution as i stated above it's pointless discussion as whatever anyone has said on here just gets dismissed immediately as not realistic. so i've not really got any desire to go round and round in circles again.

Edited 8 hours ago by Turkish

[Osvaldorama]

Just now, Turkish said:

There isn't an easy solution as i stated above it's pointless but whatever anyone has said on here just gets dismissed immediately as not realistic. so i've not really got any desire to go round and round in circles again.

Exactly, some people on here are still in the “everyone is far right hooligans” mindset which is a huge part of why we are where we are. 
 

People like farmer, egg, etc who think they are noble because they don’t vote reform are actively making the country more dangerous because they aren’t aware of how bad things are. 
 

Until there is mass consensus of these issues, instead of ridiculing protestors, nothing will change. 

[egg]

Just now, Osvaldorama said:

That’s because it’s a waste of time to have that conversation. 
 

Anyone with an IQ of above 80 can write a list of hundreds of possible solutions. (It seems a couple of people on here don’t have that)

The point is we aren’t doing any of them. Things are still getting worse.
 

And the government is pretending that they have a handle on it. 

There's no conversation to be had when people take your approach, and just shout headline solutions without any thought about the reality. 

We won't stop people wanting a better life here. We won't stop France all but helping them in their way. We won't stop traffickers milking it. We can't close down a stretch of water. Those are the realities we face. 

What we can do is as Hypo says. We can then accommodate people meeting needs only. We can then have a streamlined processing system, with limited appeals and tougher outcomes, and prompt enforcement. Basically we can make ourselves less attractive a proposition, and deal with things quicker.

What we can't do, realistically, is stop the boats coming, that's just populism. 

[AlexLaw76]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

 

What we can't do, realistically, is stop the boats coming, that's just populism. 

You (we) can very easily make it so undesirable to come here they wont bother.

but hey ho, rather spend our tax money on more HMOs and such like

Edited 8 hours ago by AlexLaw76

[egg]

2 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Exactly, some people on here are still in the “everyone is far right hooligans” mindset which is a huge part of why we are where we are. 
 

People like farmer, egg, etc who think they are noble because they don’t vote reform are actively making the country more dangerous because they aren’t aware of how bad things are. 
 

Until there is mass consensus of these issues, instead of ridiculing protestors, nothing will change. 

You're reading what you want to read into people's comments. Being realistic, and dismissing non sensical suggestions, isn't acceptance of the problem. 

 

[tdmickey3]

39 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

 

Going after the traffickers (this is happening but being a brainwashed prick you would deny it), being tough on France (How exactly we have not jurisdiction there), implementing deterrents (Such as), detention centres (we have these), sending them back (again this is happening , quicker would be better), properly vetting people when they arrive (Happening but to slow), sending them elsewhere (Tories tried that, didnt work) , etc etc 

Just fucking absurdly loads of stuff which would have been common sense only a couple of decades ago. 
 

Instead we have to listen to cretins like you who pretend there’s nothing that can be done, when actually there is just a lack of will to do anything to protect us, and a treasonous dereliction of duty from countless faceless bureaucrats 

No one is saying that you brainwashed twat

Treasonous🤣, calm down dear you are losing it

[egg]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

You (we) can very easily make it so undesirable to come here they wont bother.

but hey ho, rather spend out tax money on more HMOs and such like

So where do people stay when they're here pending being dealt with ? A shanty town down the rec? 

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, egg said:

So where do people stay when they're here pending being dealt with ? A shanty town down the rec? 

Who knows.

[tdmickey3]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

There's no conversation to be had when people take your approach, and just shout headline solutions without any thought about the reality. 

We won't stop people wanting a better life here. We won't stop France all but helping them in their way. We won't stop traffickers milking it. We can't close down a stretch of water. Those are the realities we face. 

What we can do is as Hypo says. We can then accommodate people meeting needs only. We can then have a streamlined processing system, with limited appeals and tougher outcomes, and prompt enforcement. Basically we can make ourselves less attractive a proposition, and deal with things quicker.

What we can't do, realistically, is stop the boats coming, that's just populism. 

Spot on but, its pointless trying to make brainwashed people like him understand

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

You (we) can very easily make it so undesirable to come here they wont bother.

but hey ho, rather spend our tax money on more HMOs and such like

Isnt having a 1000 people blocking the roads as the boats arrive part of making it undesirable to live here? Perhaps that's all part of the plan. We should be applauding them not accusing them of being racist.

[tdmickey3]

7 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Exactly, some people on here are still in the “everyone is far right hooligans” mindset which is a huge part of why we are where we are. 
 

People like farmer, egg, etc who think they are noble because they don’t vote reform are actively making the country more dangerous because they aren’t aware of how bad things are. 
 

Until there is mass consensus of these issues, instead of ridiculing protestors, nothing will change. 

People will ridicule protesters who think burning bins and innocent peoples houses and acting violently against the police is the answer and rightly so. 

 

[AlexLaw76]

This will help the issue, I'm sure

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/labour-party-backbench-rebellion-shabana-mahmood-hard-line-immigration-policy

[iansums]

Detention centres with no free movement, absolutely basic living conditions. Make it so bloody horrible that they ask to go back (which would unfortunately be at a cost to the tax payer). This would get my vote. 🫢

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, iansums said:

Detention centres with no free movement, absolutely basic living conditions. Make it so bloody horrible that they ask to go back (which would unfortunately be at a cost to the tax payer). This would get my vote. 🫢

No NHS, no phones, no day trips, no HMOs, no chance of ever becoming a citizen or even have the right to remain what so ever. 

Don't like the idea of that, don't throw your passport in the sea, risk your life crossing the channel whilst leaving your wife(s) and kids at home, and don't. bother coming.

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, iansums said:

Detention centres with no free movement, absolutely basic living conditions. Make it so bloody horrible that they ask to go back (which would unfortunately be at a cost to the tax payer). This would get my vote. 🫢

Bad luck

[whelk]

11 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

This will help the issue, I'm sure

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/labour-party-backbench-rebellion-shabana-mahmood-hard-line-immigration-policy

Never had you down as a subscriber 

[Osvaldorama]

27 minutes ago, egg said:

There's no conversation to be had when people take your approach, and just shout headline solutions without any thought about the reality. 

We won't stop people wanting a better life here. We won't stop France all but helping them in their way. We won't stop traffickers milking it. We can't close down a stretch of water. Those are the realities we face. 

What we can do is as Hypo says. We can then accommodate people meeting needs only. We can then have a streamlined processing system, with limited appeals and tougher outcomes, and prompt enforcement. Basically we can make ourselves less attractive a proposition, and deal with things quicker.

What we can't do, realistically, is stop the boats coming, that's just populism. 

 

This is just hot air. 
 

Above you said there’s nothing we can do. Now you’re already turning around saying there’s loads more we can do. So you’ve basically just agreed with me, it’s just taken you a page to get here. 
 

It’s not populism to want to keep our borders secure. It’s common sense. 

[Osvaldorama]

23 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

People will ridicule protesters who think burning bins and innocent peoples houses and acting violently against the police is the answer and rightly so. 

 

More arrests in an hour of Notting Hill carnival than in the last 10 “right wing”protests. 
 

We’d all be a lot better off if wet blankets with your mindset were the ones being ridiculed instead of those wanting our borders secured. 

[egg]

31 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Who knows.

So no suggestion of a solution. Helpful. 

[tdmickey3]

1 minute ago, Osvaldorama said:

More arrests in an hour of Notting Hill carnival than in the last 10 “right wing”protests. 
 

We’d all be a lot better off if wet blankets with your mindset were the ones being ridiculed instead of those wanting our borders secured. 

Guess you will be out solving everything with your box of matches and your balaclava... 

[AlexLaw76]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

So no suggestion of a solution. Helpful. 

Ok, wherever they can afford.

[egg]

6 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

 

This is just hot air. 
 

Above you said there’s nothing we can do. Now you’re already turning around saying there’s loads more we can do. So you’ve basically just agreed with me, it’s just taken you a page to get here. 
 

It’s not populism to want to keep our borders secure. It’s common sense. 

Behave. I agree with you only as far as there's a problem. There's nothing else to agree with you on as you've made zero actual proposals to address the issue. Just "hot air", to borrow your phrase. 

I've said there's nothing practically that we can do to stop boats arriving. 

What we do when people arrive, and our attraction, are different matters. 

[iansums]

31 minutes ago, egg said:

There's no conversation to be had when people take your approach, and just shout headline solutions without any thought about the reality. 

We won't stop people wanting a better life here. We won't stop France all but helping them in their way. We won't stop traffickers milking it. We can't close down a stretch of water. Those are the realities we face. 

What we can do is as Hypo says. We can then accommodate people meeting needs only. We can then have a streamlined processing system, with limited appeals and tougher outcomes, and prompt enforcement. Basically we can make ourselves less attractive a proposition, and deal with things quicker.

What we can't do, realistically, is stop the boats coming, that's just populism. 

The thing I don't understand is why? When they've managed to get all the way through Europe, why do they want to risk their lives on a rubber dinghy to get to the UK. What is it that they think we are offering that Europe isn't? Whatever it is, we need to make absolutely clear, they ain't gonna get it.

[egg]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

Ok, wherever they can afford.

If they can afford nothing, then a shanty town down the rec?

People can moan about HMO's all they like, but people can and will arrive on our shores, and either be accommodated at our expense or left to roam free - it's one or the other. 

[tdmickey3]

Four murder arrests after baby girl dies while camping with family in Staffordshire | UK News | Sky News

 

Any riots planned or are the "we want our country back" protesters waiting to find out the colour of the despicable offenders

[egg]

Just now, iansums said:

The thing I don't understand is why? When they've managed to get all the way through Europe, why do they want to risk their lives on a rubber dinghy to get to the UK. What is it that they think we are offering that Europe isn't? Whatever it is, we need to make absolutely clear, they ain't gonna get it.

Agreed. I don't see the appeal at all. Whatever the appeal is needs to be choked off. 

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, egg said:

If they can afford nothing, then a shanty town down the rec?

People can moan about HMO's all they like, but people can and will arrive on our shores, and either be accommodated at our expense or left to roam free - it's one or the other. 

Then knowing they do not get a place to stay for free, they may not bother (along with every other deterrence available).

Of course, you will say that is impossible so I will hop off the bus on this one at this stop

Edited 7 hours ago by AlexLaw76

[ecuk268]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

Agreed. I don't see the appeal at all. Whatever the appeal is needs to be choked off. 

2 main reasons.

They have friends or relatives here and/or they speak English.

Edited 7 hours ago by ecuk268

[Turkish]

8 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

Four murder arrests after baby girl dies while camping with family in Staffordshire | UK News | Sky News

 

Any riots planned or are the "we want our country back" protesters waiting to find out the colour of the despicable offenders

And the link to the Engish people’s crime and asking why aren’t they protesting against that give us Bingo

welll done Micky 

[egg]

6 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Then knowing they do not get a place to stay for free, they may not bother (along with every other deterrence available).

Of course, you will say that is impossible so I will hop off the bus on this one at this stop

Let's look at the people that do arrive. 

Choices:.

1. Accomodated.

2. Left to wander, sleeping wherever and disappearing from the system.

Which one? If 2, are you ok with them kipping in the field outside your house? I'd prefer they were odd the streets. 

[egg]

5 minutes ago, ecuk268 said:

2 main reasons.

They have friends or relatives here and/or they speak English.

I get that. That defeats the purpose of asylum.