The Reform Thread

[sadoldgit]

23 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

Fair enough, I agree you cant make a decision now. It sounds as though you would consider Labour in the same way I mentioned the Tories / Reform coalition. However I woudnt take the piss out of you for saying you would consider voting for them based on the circus that they currently are.  So grow up a bit.

Circus, compared to the last 14 years this is a walk in the park.

Does it not bother you that over 20 people have come forward and given in depth accounts of his clear anti Semitic and racists remarks when he was a young man?

[Sir Ralph]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

Circus, compared to the last 14 years this is a walk in the park.

Does it not bother you that over 20 people have come forward and given in depth accounts of his clear anti Semitic and racists remarks when he was a young man?

I beg to differ on your first point, noting we are only 1.5 years into the current Government. Their opinion polls have tanked faster than any new Government before them, which means it's not just me saying it.

I haven't read the accounts of these people yet but these were nearly 50 years ago I believe. If these are true (and not politically motivated) I dont judge someone's character on what they did 50 years ago, especially when they were a teenager. In fact, I think it smacks of desperation to dig someone's character out based on when they were a teenager in the early 1970s! I'm sure we have all said / done stupid things in our youth that we would disagree with now. Judge somebody on who they are now, not what they may have (potentially) been once.

If you were really genuinely worried about antisemitism you should definitely not vote for the Labour Party. As I am aware, they are the only party to be found to be institutionally antisemitic (within the last 5 years) by the EHRC. Does that bother you? I assume it must and therefore you wouldnt vote for them?

Edited 5 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[sadoldgit]

8 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

I beg to differ on your first point, noting we are only 1.5 years into the current Government. Their opinion polls have tanked faster than any new Government before them, which means it's not just me saying it.

I haven't read the accounts of these people yet but these were nearly 50 years ago I believe. If these are true (and not politically motivated) I dont judge someone's character on what they did 50 years ago, especially when they were a teenager. In fact, I think it smacks of desperation to dig someone's character out based on when they were a teenager in the early 1970s!

If you were really genuinely worried about antisemitism you should definitely not vote for the Labour Party. As I am aware, they are the only party to be found to be institutionally antisemitic (within the last 5 years) by the EHRC. Does that bother you? I assume it must and therefore you wouldnt vote for them?

I didn’t say it was just you saying it. It is very clear but at the same time the new government have inherited a car crash. 
Listen to what the victims of his actions and words say. The problem with Farage is that he has not changed. There is a saying, if someone shows you who they are, believe them. He is no different to Trump. Neither have grown into better human beings.

The Labour Party are different under Starmer. I also think that a lot of people conflate being pro Palestine with being anti Semetic. Most people understand that is nonsense.

So you fob off Farage’s vile opinions just as his followers always do. Just look at the organisations that he has been associated with over the years and the people he consorts with if you need any more evidence of who this person is.

We both know that if these allegations were made against Corbyn the mainstream media wouldn’t stop until he was political toast. I have no doubt that you would be all over it like Trump over a schoolgirl. But here we are in 2025 and they are still given Farage an easy ride and people like you are happy to support him politically.

[Sir Ralph]

4 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

I didn’t say it was just you saying it. It is very clear but at the same time the new government have inherited a car crash. 
Listen to what the victims of his actions and words say. The problem with Farage is that he has not changed. There is a saying, if someone shows you who they are, believe them. He is no different to Trump. Neither have grown into better human beings.

The Labour Party are different under Starmer. I also think that a lot of people conflate being pro Palestine with being anti Semetic. Most people understand that is nonsense.

So you fob off Farage’s vile opinions just as his followers always do. Just look at the organisations that he has been associated with over the years and the people he consorts with if you need any more evidence of who this person is.

We both know that if these allegations were made against Corbyn the mainstream media wouldn’t stop until he was political toast. I have no doubt that you would be all over it like Trump over a schoolgirl. But here we are in 2025 and they are still given Farage an easy ride and people like you are happy to support him politically.

You know what, I disagree with most of what you say but you do actually articulate your view in a polite way, even if I dont agree. A few others on here could take note including the village idiot.

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

You know what, I disagree with most of what you say but you do actually articulate your view in a polite way, even if I dont agree. A few others on here could take note including the village idiot.

You have to be joking. Soggy thinks you are far right scum and wouldn't think twice about smearing and accusing you of all sorts. He's the worst offender by far.

[Sir Ralph]

5 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

You have to be joking. Soggy thinks you are far right scum and wouldn't think twice about smearing and accusing you of all sorts. He's the worst offender by far.

I've seen the posts on him and knew I would get jumped on. I get the impression that maybe he's not top of the Xmas list.

Unlike some of the other lefties, he has never been rude to me, I think thats the point. Disagreement fine, but being rude is unnecessary and he hasnt dont that yet to me anyway.

Edited 4 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[whelk]

11 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

A few others on here could take note including the village idiot.

I thought Nic was your mate?

[Sir Ralph]

1 minute ago, whelk said:

I thought Nic was your mate?

We are the same person remember😉

[sadoldgit]

2 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

I've seen the posts on him and knew I would get jumped on. I get the impression that maybe he's not top of the Xmas list.

Unlike some of the other lefties, he has never been rude to me, I think thats the point. Disagreement fine, but being rude is unnecessary and he hasnt dont that yet to me anyway.

When you get support from hypochondriac you need to start worrying. He is very quick to support people like Farage, Robinson and Hopkins yet gets shirty if you accuse him of supporting the far right.

Throughout this episode Farage has, not once, taken the opportunity to condemn anti-semitism and racism. 

[Sir Ralph]

1 minute ago, sadoldgit said:

When you get support from hypochondriac you need to start worrying. He is very quick to support people like Farage, Robinson and Hopkins yet gets shirty if you accuse him of supporting the far right.

Throughout this episode Farage has, not once, taken the opportunity to condemn anti-semitism and racism. 

Hypo is not far right. He just has a different view from you. He is actually quite patient and considered, in my opinion. Would you say your views are far left?

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

When you get support from hypochondriac you need to start worrying. He is very quick to support people like Farage, Robinson and Hopkins yet gets shirty if you accuse him of supporting the far right.

Throughout this episode Farage has, not once, taken the opportunity to condemn anti-semitism and racism. 

He said the line! Nice to get a mention of the terrible trio before the end of 2025.

[whelk]

9 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

He said the line! Nice to get a mention of the terrible trio before the end of 2025.

I literally hear nothing about Hopkins anywhere other than SOG’s mentions

[hypochondriac]

5 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

Hypo is not far right. He just has a different view from you. He is actually quite patient and considered, in my opinion. Would you say your views are far left?

I think you need to bear in mind that the likes of soggy are often more insidious than other posters who are more blunt or more able to be honest when they reply to you. Soggy will happily throw around terms like far right, rape apologist, Tommy Robinson supporter but never actually provides any evidence of these claims. He just wants to smear by association because he thinks he is uniquely virtuous and caricatures people who disagrees with him or pretends they have said something they haven't said because it's easier to dismiss someone that way rather than having to engage with their argument or accept that someone can disagree with you on lots of things and not be Hitler. In my opinion it's much more cowardly to smear by association the way he does. He's done it.for a few posters for years. Luckily his smears aren't actually effective which is why he's often mocked and ridiculed.

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, whelk said:

I literally hear nothing about Hopkins anywhere other than SOG’s mentions

Genuinely don't think I've mentioned her outside of this forum since she was on big brother and she called her daughter India despite saying she hated parents who called their children after places. About a decade ago?

Edited 4 hours ago by hypochondriac

[Sir Ralph]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I think you need to bear in mind that the likes of soggy are often more insidious than other posters who are more blunt or more able to be honest when they reply to you. Soggy will happily throw around terms like far right, rape apologist, Tommy Robinson supporter but never actually provides any evidence of these claims. He just wants to smear by association because he thinks he is uniquely virtuous and caricatures people who disagrees with him or pretends they have said something they haven't said because it's easier to dismiss someone that way rather than having to engage with their argument or accept that someone can disagree with you on lots of things and not be Hitler. In my opinion it's much more cowardly to smear by association the way he does. He's done it.for a few posters for years. Luckily his smears aren't actually effective which is why he's often mocked and ridiculed.

Fair enough - if he does it to me I will remind him (in a polite way). I still want to know whether, if he thinks you are far right, whether @sadoldgit thinks he is far left or some sort of centrist?

[sadoldgit]

12 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

Hypo is not far right. He just has a different view from you. He is actually quite patient and considered, in my opinion. Would you say your views are far left?

He is constantly supporting people whose politics are far right. Why would you do that if you weren’t sympathetic to them? Of course you have a favourable view of him. You share his opinions.

Define far left? Being opposed to far right opinions? Given I have voted for the LibDems in most elections I don’t think that qualifies as being “far left.” 

By the way, it is very difficult to see any difference between you and nic.
 

[Sir Ralph]

3 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

He is constantly supporting people whose politics are far right. Why would you do that if you weren’t sympathetic to them? Of course you have a favourable view of him. You share his opinions.

Define far left? Being opposed to far right opinions? Given I have voted for the LibDems in most elections I don’t think that qualifies as being “far left.” 

By the way, it is very difficult to see any difference between you and nic.
 

Firstly this is the internet definition of far right - do you really think that hypo, myself and nic fall in this definition? By the way I didnt say you were far left I asked you where you thought you were in terms of your views.

A "far-right" individual holds political views that are radical or extreme on the right side of the political spectrum, often characterized by ultranationalism, authoritarianism, and anti-democratic tendencies. These ideologies typically include elements like racism, xenophobia, and a strong emphasis on social hierarchy, with historical examples like Nazism and fascism falling into this category. Modern far-right movements can include groups like the alt-right, white nationalists, and some populist parties. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[sadoldgit]

Just now, Sir Ralph said:

Fair enough - if he does it to me I will remind him (in a polite way). I still want to know whether, if he thinks you are far right, whether @sadoldgit thinks he is far left or some sort of centrist?

Some sort of centrist. What is that? 😂  You seem to suffer from the same cognitive fog that he has too. “Socialism is dangerous” is his refrain. He conflates Socialism with Stalin and Lenin, bless him. 
As I have tried to explain to your other half (nic). Being apposed to far right ideology does not make you a Marxist or a Communist. It just makes you a reasonable, decent human being.

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

He is constantly supporting people whose politics are far right. Why would you do that if you weren’t sympathetic to them? Of course you have a favourable view of him. You share his opinions.

Define far left? Being opposed to far right opinions? Given I have voted for the LibDems in most elections I don’t think that qualifies as being “far left.” 

By the way, it is very difficult to see any difference between you and nic.
 

This is what I mean @Sir Ralph. No evidence at all. Note that he calls me far right and a Tommy Robinson supporter and then says you share my views. That means he's calling you far right too. There's nothing polite about it.

[Sir Ralph]

Just now, sadoldgit said:

Some sort of centrist. What is that? 😂  You seem to suffer from the same cognitive fog that he has too. “Socialism is dangerous” is his refrain. He conflates Socialism with Stalin and Lenin, bless him. 
As I have tried to explain to your other half (nic). Being apposed to far right ideology does not make you a Marxist or a Communist. It just makes you a reasonable, decent human being.

Maybe just start of on my question about whether you think hypo, myself and nic are far right based on the definition I have provided.

 

 

[hypochondriac]

5 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

Maybe just start of on my question about whether you think hypo, myself and nic are far right based on the definition I have provided.

 

 

He does think that. He thinks I fit that definition perfectly and has said so on multiple occasions over many years. 

[sadoldgit]

3 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

Firstly this is the internet definition of far right - do you really think that hypo, myself and nic fall in this definition? By the way I didnt say you were far left I asked you where you thought you were in terms of your views.

A "far-right" individual holds political views that are radical or extreme on the right side of the political spectrum, often characterized by ultranationalism, authoritarianism, and anti-democratic tendencies. These ideologies typically include elements like racism, xenophobia, and a strong emphasis on social hierarchy, with historical examples like Nazism and fascism falling into this category. Modern far-right movements can include groups like the alt-right, white nationalists, and some populist parties. 

I think that anyone who supports those kinds of views or speaks out in support of the people who support those views should expect to be tarred with the same brush. You weren’t here when this happened, but hypochondriac used to have Pepe Le Frog as his avatar. An image that is used by the alt right. 
When I read your (all three of you) posts I see sympathy with views expressed by people who identify as “far right.” All of you draw fire from posters in here who would probably identify as liberal with a small L. I would include myself in that definition. Draw your own conclusions.

[tdmickey3]

53 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

You know what, I disagree with most of what you say but you do actually articulate your view in a polite way, even if I dont agree. A few others on here could take note including the village idiot.

 

43 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

I've seen the posts on him and knew I would get jumped on. I get the impression that maybe he's not top of the Xmas list.

Unlike some of the other lefties, he has never been rude to me, I think thats the point. Disagreement fine, but being rude is unnecessary and he hasnt dont that yet to me anyway.

 🤡

[Sir Ralph]

25 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

I think that anyone who supports those kinds of views or speaks out in support of the people who support those views should expect to be tarred with the same brush. You weren’t here when this happened, but hypochondriac used to have Pepe Le Frog as his avatar. An image that is used by the alt right. 
When I read your (all three of you) posts I see sympathy with views expressed by people who identify as “far right.” All of you draw fire from posters in here who would probably identify as liberal with a small L. I would include myself in that definition. Draw your own conclusions.

So you think we are essentially far right. You really dont understand what far right is so I would recommend not using the term until you have read up on it and the history relating to far right regimes. 

Whilst I would not say you fall within the definition of far left because I understand what that means, you certainly are not a liberal with a small L.  Just because we draw fire from liberals (or lefties as I call them) that doesnt mean we are far right, it means we disagree with some of the views that they have (this forum has a higher proportion of liberals). I dont call you far left even though I think some of your views are extreme. That's not how it works. You need to better understand what those terms mean before you call people that.

Edited 3 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[Turkish]

27 minutes ago, whelk said:

I literally hear nothing about Hopkins anywhere other than SOG’s mentions

or Tommy Robinson. And he must mention Farage about 50 times a day.

The only person that speaks about any of them is SOG.

[Turkish]

14 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

I think that anyone who supports those kinds of views or speaks out in support of the people who support those views should expect to be tarred with the same brush. You weren’t here when this happened, but hypochondriac used to have Pepe Le Frog as his avatar. An image that is used by the alt right. 
When I read your (all three of you) posts I see sympathy with views expressed by people who identify as “far right.” All of you draw fire from posters in here who would probably identify as liberal with a small L. I would include myself in that definition. Draw your own conclusions.

I notice you were going on about Farage using racist language when he was 14 the other day. I wonder what would be discovered if people dug into your past..........

[whelk]

Far right is far too often used inappropriately. There is good old right wing which fits many.

Same for left wing as well. I feel I am pretty right wing on a number of issues but people lazily want to pigeon hole rather than understand nuance

[whelk]

And seriously what the fuck are people on thinking Ralph and Nic are same person

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, whelk said:

Far right is far too often used inappropriately. There is good old right wing which fits many.

Same for left wing as well. I feel I am pretty right wing on a number of issues but people lazily want to pigeon hole rather than understand nuance

You're clearly to the right on some issues and to the left on others. As most people are.

[whelk]

40 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Some sort of centrist. What is that? 😂  You seem to suffer from the same cognitive fog that he has too. “Socialism is dangerous” is his refrain. He conflates Socialism with Stalin and Lenin, bless him. 
As I have tried to explain to your other half (nic). Being apposed to far right ideology does not make you a Marxist or a Communist. It just makes you a reasonable, decent human being.

You do know that someone who has a different ideology to you  ie wants to have less tax and less public spending doesn’t follow that they are sympathetic towards concentration camps?

[Turkish]

10 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

You're clearly to the right on some issues and to the left on others. As most people are.

What does that even mean anyway? Not a dig at you but left, right etc is just some bullshit label people want to put on things. I suspect there is a tiny minority of people who fall under the "far left" and "far right" label but some people seem intent to label everyone and everything these days. It's playground stuff really. Funnily enough the worst one for it on here was on another thread yesterday preaching about empathy and respecting others yet just on this thread today he's exposed what a bullshitting hypocrite he is, yet again.

[hypochondriac]

8 minutes ago, Turkish said:

What does that even mean anyway? Not a dig at you but left, right etc is just some bullshit label people want to put on things. I suspect there is a tiny minority of people who fall under the "far left" and "far right" label but some people seem intent to label everyone and everything these days. It's playground stuff really. Funnily enough the worst one for it on here was on another thread yesterday preaching about empathy and respecting others yet just on this thread today he's exposed what a bullshitting hypocrite he is, yet again.

I know what you mean but typically right leaning and left leaning views have referred to certain positions. Like whelk said small state and less spending is typically associated with someone more likely to support the Conservatives who generally have views more aligned with what is referred to as the right. I agree though that I find it odd that anyone would support everything a political party does just because you are of a similar political persuasion in some areas. 

In the real world, people on the right and left can be friends and have relationships and not give a crap about things like that. My wife for example has never given the smallest shite about politics and tends to ask me how I think she should vote come the election. I think you'd find that's a lot more common than these fringe weirdos hating other people because they have some divergent views on the political parties they are leaning towards at the moment. 

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

 All of you draw fire from posters in here who would probably identify as liberal with a small L. I would include myself in that definition. Draw your own conclusions.

Horseshit.

I've never seen any post of yours criticising Labour, not one.  You're as Liberal as Chairman Mao.

[Gloucester Saint]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

Far right is far too often used inappropriately. There is good old right wing which fits many.

Same for left wing as well. I feel I am pretty right wing on a number of issues but people lazily want to pigeon hole rather than understand nuance

Far Right and Lefties are way over-used as a term of colloquial abuse unless you’re talking about Ken Livingstone, or say Tommy Robinson (Oh God, I said it now…) because they are lefties and far right respectively. But that’s the benchmark. 

[badgerx16]

This might be a surprise to some but..........

I AM A "LEFTIE".

Suck it up.

[The Kraken]

I’ve got no idea what I am and couldn’t give a toss.  Although I do find it humorous when people on here term others as “far right”, “lefties” or “liberals” and clearly both don’t really comprehend the term nor have any deep idea of the actual politics of the people they’re trying to define. I guess it makes arguing against them a bit easier if you simplistically pigeon hole people you disagree with.

 

Edited 1 hour ago by The Kraken

[Weston Super Saint]

I am proud to be politically agnostic.

They've all got snouts in the trough.

[badgerx16]

1 minute ago, Weston Super Saint said:

 

They've all got snouts in the trough.

AMEN

[Holmes_and_Watson]

7 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

I am proud to be politically agnostic.

They've all got snouts in the trough.

I'm a political atheist. I don't believe governments exist. I've been wondering what's being discussed since the opening post. 🙂

[egg]

3 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

You're clearly to the right on some issues and to the left on others. As most people are.

Yep. I'm mostly left of centre, but sway right ish on some things. I have no idea why people feel the need to label people though. 

[whelk]

7 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

AMEN

So Obama just as corrupt as Trump?

[egg]

1 minute ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

I'm a political atheist. I don't believe governments exist. I've been wondering what's being discussed since the opening post. 🙂

Brilliant! 👏 

[hypochondriac]

16 minutes ago, egg said:

Yep. I'm mostly left of centre, but sway right ish on some things. I have no idea why people feel the need to label people though. 

I'll try really really hard not to point out that you've labelled me a number of times now. Maybe you'll avoid calling me a racist or islamophobe in future?

Edited 31 minutes ago by hypochondriac

[egg]

6 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I'll try really really hard not to point out that you've labelled me a number of times now. Maybe you'll avoid calling me a racist or islamophobe in future?

Different issues. We're talking political labelling. I won't stop calling a shovel a shovel. 

[badgerx16]

24 minutes ago, whelk said:

So Obama just as corrupt as Trump?

No.

[sadoldgit]

3 hours ago, Sir Ralph said:

So you think we are essentially far right. You really dont understand what far right is so I would recommend not using the term until you have read up on it and the history relating to far right regimes. 

Whilst I would not say you fall within the definition of far left because I understand what that means, you certainly are not a liberal with a small L.  Just because we draw fire from liberals (or lefties as I call them) that doesnt mean we are far right, it means we disagree with some of the views that they have (this forum has a higher proportion of liberals). I dont call you far left even though I think some of your views are extreme. That's not how it works. You need to better understand what those terms mean before you call people that.

I do understand what far right is. You seem to have a problem with it though. People like Tommy Robinson and Katie Hopkins have far right agendas. If you don’t understand that then you need to do more research. You don’t have to wear black and wave flags with swastikas on them to be “far right” in your opinions. If people defend them and make excuses for people like Farage, why would they do that if they weren’t sympathetic to their agendas?

I have voted for the Liberal Democrat’s for most of my life and as I have explained before,  I only stopped doing so when Clegg chose to go into coalition with the Tories. I voted Labour tactically in the last 3 elections to get the Tories out, although the last time I was happy to vote for Starmer as he is clearly centre left.

You don’t call me far left because I am clearly not. Liberals are not Lefties. Liberals are liberal. There is a reason why Lefties are called Lefty. It is because their views are well left of the centre. Liberals are centralists. This stuff is all very basic.

Which of my views are extreme in your view? I have never posted against basic capitalism and don’t have a problem with the creation of wealth. If I am a Leftie I am not very good at it.

[The Kraken]

1 minute ago, sadoldgit said:

I voted Labour tactically in the last 3 elections to get the Tories out, although the last time I was happy to vote for Starmer as he is clearly centre left.

Didn’t you post on here that you voted for the Greens at the last GE?