Guided Missile Posted 24 February, 2009 Share Posted 24 February, 2009 (edited) Must be one of the questions the Saints Trust is trying to answer, but I have to disagree that this particular organisation can claim to represent the fans. I don't think the demonstration of an ability to string a few words together on a website gives you any particular claim, nor the desire to march to the stadium behind a few wannabe shop stewards. I also don't think that holding a position within the club or owning shares gives you that right. In these times of adversity, a quick glance at the average attendances will tell anyone who makes up the bulk of the support. It is the ST holders, the scarf and flask brigade that cheer and laugh, boo and cry, but whatever the circumstances, populate the stadium when the casuals head for the hills. So, when is a representative body going to talk on their behalf? The silent 10,000, drowned out by the agitators, many of whom never go to St. Marys, but just need something to replace the shop steward's role they had at the docks. So this is how it could work. When the ST renewal forms come round, there is a box to tick on whether you are willing to donate a tenner to this organisation. The club collects the money and distributes voting forms, with the undertaking that the ST holder voted for, gets a seat on the football board to represent the fans views. The rest of the fans? They get to whinge on here.... Edited 25 February, 2009 by Guided Missile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 24 February, 2009 Share Posted 24 February, 2009 Must be one of the questions the Saints Trust is trying to answer, but I have to disagree that his particular organisation can claim to represent the fans. I don't think the demonstration of an ability to string a few words together on a website gives you any particular claim, nor the desire to march to the stadium behind a few wannabe shop stewards. I also don't think that holding a position within the club or owning shares gives you that right. In these times of adversity, a quick glance at the average attendances will tell anyone who makes up the bulk of the support. It is the ST holders, the scarf and flask brigade that cheer and laugh, boo and cry, but whatever the circumstances, populate the stadium when the casuals head for the hills. So, when is a representative body going to talk on their behalf? The silent 10,000, drowned out by the agitators, many of whom never go to St. Marys, but just need something to replace the shop steward's role they had at the docks. So this is how it could work. When the ST renewal forms come round, there is a box to tick on whether you are willing to donate a tenner to this organisation. The club collects the money and distributes voting forms, with the undertaking that the ST holder voted for, gets a seat on the football board to represent the fans views. The rest of the fans? They get to whinge on here.... you volunteering John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 24 February, 2009 Share Posted 24 February, 2009 i represent myself. i "voice" my opinion by either not going or shouting it from the stands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Posted 24 February, 2009 Share Posted 24 February, 2009 (edited) the Saints Trust was trying to negotiate something along those lines with the club - but still giving non-season ticket holders the option to join as members and have a voice at the club also giving a mechanism for the small shareholders to have a larger collective voice and all fans a chance to own shares in the club through the Trust as a Saints fans of 30 years who apart from joining the Branfoot protests and shouting a bit too loudly at games never got actively involved in supporter stuff until I joined the Saints Trust working group it looked (and still does) like a great idea to me which club do I aspire Saints to be like - Barcelona for all its stands for - and because its owned and run by its membership (although that's not always worked either!) I was never involved in SISA or the TSA although I passively joined both I have to say I now think most Saints fans have got the directors and the club they deserve - and I've learnt that through bitter experience - of egos, of vitriol, of not invented here syndrome, and of messageboards! Edited 24 February, 2009 by Rebel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Posted 24 February, 2009 Share Posted 24 February, 2009 I still don't understand why some people are so against the Trust when they put forward the exact same ideas under a different banner is it because they didn't think of it first - or because they are not in charge there is an easy answer to the second one if that's the problem - get involved in the Trust as for who represents fans on the board at SFC- Crouch thought he was the fans representative on the board Lawrie Mac thought fans were there just to support the club and its managers/directors/players (and worship) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rover Posted 24 February, 2009 Share Posted 24 February, 2009 It's a fair point but 1. It's far too late and 2. Even if the club does last out the season in it's current form Lowe and Wilde would veto any fan representation on the board imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 24 February, 2009 Share Posted 24 February, 2009 Mlt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelkel31 Posted 24 February, 2009 Share Posted 24 February, 2009 the saints trust is the right organization for saints fans to unite behind. on its conception i think people decided to wait and see what it becomes before getting involved, a fear that the same old people, with the same personal agendas will be taking charge. of course this is exactly what seems to have happened and this has turned off any sensible involvement from the larger fan base. from what i remember of the trust meetings with board members the questions asked was like a post match interview from radio hampshire, a scared school boy talking to his headmaster, pointless! yes you need to play politics but you also have to try and achieve something and get across real fans views! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 24 February, 2009 Share Posted 24 February, 2009 Must be one of the questions the Saints Trust is trying to answer, but I have to disagree that his particular organisation can claim to represent the fans. I don't think the demonstration of an ability to string a few words together on a website gives you any particular claim, nor the desire to march to the stadium behind a few wannabe shop stewards. I also don't think that holding a position within the club or owning shares gives you that right. In these times of adversity, a quick glance at the average attendances will tell anyone who makes up the bulk of the support. It is the ST holders, the scarf and flask brigade that cheer and laugh, boo and cry, but whatever the circumstances, populate the stadium when the casuals head for the hills. So, when is a representative body going to talk on their behalf? The silent 10,000, drowned out by the agitators, many of whom never go to St. Marys, but just need something to replace the shop steward's role they had at the docks. So this is how it could work. When the ST renewal forms come round, there is a box to tick on whether you are willing to donate a tenner to this organisation. The club collects the money and distributes voting forms, with the undertaking that the ST holder voted for, gets a seat on the football board to represent the fans views. The rest of the fans? They get to whinge on here.... Same old ST Holder = Ueber Fan bolllocks we've heard a million times. I fund the club with more money every time I visit SMS and use its facilities than you do, Johnny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuRomseySaint Posted 24 February, 2009 Share Posted 24 February, 2009 I still don't understand why some people are so against the Trust when they put forward the exact same ideas under a different banner is it because they didn't think of it first - or because they are not in charge there is an easy answer to the second one if that's the problem - get involved in the Trust as for who represents fans on the board at SFC- Crouch thought he was the fans representative on the board Lawrie Mac thought fans were there just to support the club and its managers/directors/players (and worship) People are against the Trust because you treat your members with so much contempt and disrespect, only interested in your own personal agendas which your little clique discuss in the pub together. Maybe if you started acting like an organisation, canvassing your members, taking votes before coming up with your wacky proposals, then you can truely claim to represent your members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 25 February, 2009 Share Posted 25 February, 2009 People are against the Trust because you treat your members with so much contempt and disrespect, only interested in your own personal agendas which your little clique discuss in the pub together. Maybe if you started acting like an organisation, canvassing your members, taking votes before coming up with your wacky proposals, then you can truely claim to represent your members. The last paragraph is very pertinent. If I was queuing to get into the stadium and found myself for example behind Lowe, Crouch or Wilde perhaps taking some time to experience match day with the paying punters I would be fairly certain I would recognise them instantly. Can't say that about any of the Saints Trust big guns - how difficult would it be to circulate a few flyers with a picture of your Trust reps and what they can do for you. Even your local councillors take the trouble to do this but having said that they are dependent on the electorate to vote them in and can't simply proclaim themselves representatives unlike the Sainst Trust or I presume the SISA, where there is no I in elected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostBoys Posted 25 February, 2009 Share Posted 25 February, 2009 I do not think the Trust has ever claimed to represent the fans - they certainly have never acted like it with the exception of their publicists every time there is a reporter around. Regretably they are totally out of touch and the latest ludicrous statement has come far too late to be taken seriously even if it did have merit. A waste of money for those fans who have pledged their shares to them I am sorry to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted 25 February, 2009 Share Posted 25 February, 2009 I still don't understand why some people are so against the Trust when they put forward the exact same ideas under a different banner is it because they didn't think of it first - or because they are not in charge there is an easy answer to the second one if that's the problem - get involved in the Trust as for who represents fans on the board at SFC- Crouch thought he was the fans representative on the board Lawrie Mac thought fans were there just to support the club and its managers/directors/players (and worship) I will never rejoin the Saints Trust - the whole "New Labour" concept is a ill thought out joke. Having Nick Illingsworth as chairman is also a good reason to avoid it like the plague. If you wish to pay £10 a year to give Illingsworths voice extra weight i think you need your head testing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guided Missile Posted 25 February, 2009 Author Share Posted 25 February, 2009 I fund the club with more money every time I visit SMS and use its facilities than you do, Johnny. I don't think that the money you spend with Ryanair once a season, to get away from your mother-in-law, really counts, does it? Now get back to the washing up, before I put you on ignore.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyFartPants Posted 25 February, 2009 Share Posted 25 February, 2009 I think the fans represent the fans and they do it only be attending or not attending games. That is the only true measure of whether they are currently happy or not and any group that conjours up opinions on behalf of thousands of people without consultation is destined to be considered a joke by many at every turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonsaint1604 Posted 25 February, 2009 Share Posted 25 February, 2009 I think the fans represent the fans and they do it only be attending or not attending games. Exactly. The fans don't need representing, the fans are the club. If we all said **** it I cant be bothered any more then the club would no longer exist. If 30,000 saints fans went to st marys every other week then we'd be in a very different position to the one we're in now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowballs2 Posted 25 February, 2009 Share Posted 25 February, 2009 Well the Trust certainly do not represent the fans, only a very small number of paying customers belong to the Trust.... It is time for them to be less favourable to Lowe it is a spent force going no where, run by Lowe Luvies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyFartPants Posted 25 February, 2009 Share Posted 25 February, 2009 Well the Trust certainly do not represent the fans, only a very small number of paying customers belong to the Trust.... It is time for them to be less favourable to Lowe it is a spent force going no where, run by Lowe Luvies Is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stirchleysaint Posted 25 February, 2009 Share Posted 25 February, 2009 Is it not clear that us Saints fans would rather postulate that our view was the true version of events and send to damnation anybody who would disagree with that viewpoint. There's too many rivalling camps to solve the question posed by GM. Something that GM is very aware of. Hence I can only conclude that GM is swinging his handbag around again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowballs2 Posted 25 February, 2009 Share Posted 25 February, 2009 Is it?t Just read some of their recent proclamations, to think that they are anything other than pro LOWE you would have to be a Lowe luvvie yourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilko Posted 25 February, 2009 Share Posted 25 February, 2009 bungle - he is omniscient Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 25 February, 2009 Share Posted 25 February, 2009 t Just read some of their recent proclamations, to think that they are anything other than pro LOWE you would have to be a Lowe luvvie yourself I would consider the trust neutral then... if they are pro lowe, but have welcomed and suggested CRouch be broight in, does this not suggest an element of neutrality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyFartPants Posted 25 February, 2009 Share Posted 25 February, 2009 bungle - he is omniscient So am I, but what does that mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwarwick Posted 25 February, 2009 Share Posted 25 February, 2009 t Just read some of their recent proclamations, to think that they are anything other than pro LOWE you would have to be a Lowe luvvie yourself You mean the same trust that threw thir weight beyond the Wilde/Crouch bunch a couple of years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rational Rich Posted 25 February, 2009 Share Posted 25 February, 2009 People are against the Trust because you treat your members with so much contempt and disrespect, only interested in your own personal agendas which your little clique discuss in the pub together. Maybe if you started acting like an organisation, canvassing your members, taking votes before coming up with your wacky proposals, then you can truely claim to represent your members. Stu, all trust members get to vote on the make up of the board and there are procedures in place for the board to be changed, should trust members so wish. They are elected to represent the members, like any other representative. To canvass the membership on every issue and statement would be impractical, just as it is impractical to have a referendum on every issue your local council has to decide. I am a trust member, know none of the board, live miles away from any pub they may drink in, but it is democratic organisation (something you would discover if you chose to join) and could be a real force for good/change if enough willing fans were to join to give it a critical mass (as has been the case at many other clubs in peril). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilko Posted 25 February, 2009 Share Posted 25 February, 2009 So am I, but what does that mean? If you don't know it, you can't be it. Mwahahah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 25 February, 2009 Share Posted 25 February, 2009 The Trust represents the members of the trust and the views of the officers only. The trust does not have the credibility or the trust to represent non-member supporters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyFartPants Posted 25 February, 2009 Share Posted 25 February, 2009 If you don't know it, you can't be it. Mwahahah. Whooooooooooooooooosh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughieslastminutegoal Posted 26 February, 2009 Share Posted 26 February, 2009 I think the fans represent the fans and they do it only be attending or not attending games. That is the only true measure of whether they are currently happy or not and any group that conjours up opinions on behalf of thousands of people without consultation is destined to be considered a joke by many at every turn. Interesting - so you wouldn't be one of those urging fans to go to support the team even if they are not happy with things, staying away being by your definition the only way to register one's dissatisfaction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuRomseySaint Posted 26 February, 2009 Share Posted 26 February, 2009 Stu, all trust members get to vote on the make up of the board and there are procedures in place for the board to be changed, should trust members so wish. They are elected to represent the members, like any other representative. To canvass the membership on every issue and statement would be impractical, just as it is impractical to have a referendum on every issue your local council has to decide. I am a trust member, know none of the board, live miles away from any pub they may drink in, but it is democratic organisation (something you would discover if you chose to join) and could be a real force for good/change if enough willing fans were to join to give it a critical mass (as has been the case at many other clubs in peril). I admire your loyalty to the Trust, and I agree it would be impossible to canvass their membership on EVERY issue, if they had been making proposals and releasing statements every week. However they have NEVER bothered to canvass their members, EVER about anything. All the Trust is, is half a dozen blokes, all of whom are desperate to get one of them on the board. They do not represent anyone but themselves, they do not respect their members, and they claim to represent a completely made up number of Saints fans. Now I am not sure of the exact numbers, but I suggest that about 50% of Southampton residents would have voted AGAINST the two MP's representing them in the House of Parliment, so why the hell would they want them to represent their football team. Do you think it is right that the Trust should be campaigning for Southampton City Council to spend the majority of the membership base ( Southampton residents ) council tax on buying St Marys? Do you think that all of the Saints Trust members would have been happy with that? Personally I would rather have more education facilities for my kids, better hospitals and regeneration rather than having my council tax paid on a football stadium. Do you not think that maybe, just maybe they were completely out of order proposing something WHICH AFFECTS EVERY PERSON IN SOUTHAMPTON , without communicating with their members, to see if their members are happy to pay for the stadium out of their pockets effectively. They are a bunch of frauds, they STILL have not changed their membership figure on the home page. It would take them 2 seconds, they dont have 838 members, not anywhere near it, I made their board members aware of it months ago, and it still has not changed. Please ST, don't come on here saying 'we have not had time to update it' and all that b*llocks, I know Steve Grant well enough to know he is professional enough when he coded in a membership counter, for it to be simple to amend to reflect membership. Saints Trust are a joke, give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuRomseySaint Posted 26 February, 2009 Share Posted 26 February, 2009 If your council tax was to be spent on buying St Marys Stadium, as opposed to paying for the upkeep of your childrens schools, the estate you live on, community facilities for you and your children, regeneration around the city etc etc.... would you thank the Saints Trust for their campaign, for claiming to be representing 838 people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyFartPants Posted 26 February, 2009 Share Posted 26 February, 2009 Interesting - so you wouldn't be one of those urging fans to go to support the team even if they are not happy with things, staying away being by your definition the only way to register one's dissatisfaction? I am really not quite sure what you are getting at. I am merely saying, as fact, that the only way fans will get a message across to the board that they are not happy with the product if is the product is not bought. This works in business right across the board. It isn't/wasn't a dig or recommendation but purely a fact. Sorry for your confused state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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