Daren W

Take a small provincial club, take them to be genuinely competitive in the top flight, take them to wembley, win at Wembley, play in Europe, sign Europes' player of the year, finish runners up to probably one of the greatest English league teams ever, compete pretty much at top ten every year he was in charge. Or gain promotion in League 1/Championship with the backing of one of the richest chairmen in the country. And you wonder why people mock your footballing knowledge? Oh, and as an aside. Nigel Pearson, last season championship winning manager and this season vying for another. Jan Poortvielt, joint bottom of the Dutch second division with FC Eindhoven. Case rested on that front... Seriously, people can perhaps question McMenmy's activities off the pitch since moving out of football but how can anyone question his record at Saints? It is absolutely, completely and utterly, the most moronic footballing argument I could imagine...

Why oh why do I find myself rising to this anti Crouch/pro Lowe bait? The club is finally going somewhere and yet I always find myself biting? It's not as if I think Crouch did a good job or that I'm any way pro Crouch it's just that for the life of me I cannot see how people can put the majority of the blame of our recent demise at his doorstep, not with Lowe and Wilde in the frame... Again why do some people insist on not giving Pearson any credit whatsoever? Is it seriously because he was a Leon "Scattergun" Crouch appointment? He has one trophy under his belt and has now taken his team to what, 4 points off top of the Championship? At what point do the anti Crouch mob give the man some credit? At what point will they give Crouch credit for spotting a good manager when no-one on this board could say one good word about his appointment. They're all too quick to praise Lowe for Strachan and Hoddle etc but credit Crouch for a good appointment? naaaaah...(and I bet they'd be the first ones to snipe about not giving Lowe credit for finding good managers as well) Pearson was/is a good manager and his dumping by Lowe was , in my 'umble opinion, the catalyst for our dismal season last year. Just get over it, you're all making yourselves look very foolish by still refusing to accept that Nigel Pearson was good for and could have done better still if given backing from a proper chairman. I'm happy as Larry with Pardew but it's churlish to ignore Pearson as a good manager and a missed opportunity. And as for this scatter gun argument, does this have any base in reality? Is this some new finacial catchphrase or buzz word? Or is it just clutching at straw from people who have no idea whatsoever of the business practices of either party? You don't know how either Crouch or Cortese operate but to suggest that Cortese isn't flexing some serious muscle in this league is foolish and that Crouch is just some barmy yokel checking money around without a care in the world is equally foolish. How people can elevate Crouch to main villain in all of this ridiculous. At worst he was naive and out of his depth at the helm of Saints but how he can be held up as more responsible for our decline than Lowe or Wilde still annoys me. How a chairman, whose decisions lead directly to not one but two relegations, is somehow less to blame than a man who was in charge for six months at best is beyond me. How Wilde escapes is beyond me as well, a man who upset the applecart without os much as a plan A let alone a plan B. Quite why, with the club secure, happy and making real progress, I find all of this worthy of my time is beyond me. I guess it's just unfair and that's what makes me argue over something that's just worth any of our time... And Frank, I think you're taking far too a simplistic view to Alpine's argument. As I said earlier, few people who state that balancing the books as the way to run a football club, look at the counter side of the argument and look at how a football club should be run. It's one thing to balance the books but we're not tescos, sooner or later the club has to show some small semblance of ambition and under Lowe/Wilde/Whatever we never really did. You can't have one without the other, you can't say "We're going for silverware" and not balance the books but likewise you can't just balance the books and not act like a football club, it's a fine balancing act that numerous regimes (going back further than Lowe) have failled to achieve. The argument was not what was spent but what it was spent on, I'd rather see us buy two or three £4million players as opposed to six £2 million players. You don't have to spend a huge amount but it just seems, pardon the pun, that Lowe's scattergun approach to buying players was always destined to fail sooner or later. There's only so many times you can buy a player for £1 million and sell them for £5-6 million and eventually we just ran out of luck.. Let's just hope Herr Leibherr and Cortese are what we've looking for all along and enjoy the ride. Onwards and upwards and all that...

"Just interested to know if any one knows of a game that had a higher ex Saints attendance?" Did that part slip past you?

Not a chance we are turning a healthy profit, not with £1 million down for Lambert as I'd hazard a guess that our wage bill is possibly higher than last year. "Commensurate" budget? How many clubs in this league can afford a £1 million player? We're flexing some real muscle and that will be shown if we keep some of these loanees... Have we really gotten that desperate to slate Crouch that we're now apportioning blame to what we think he might have done if he had Leibherr's sort of money? Seriously, are you that desperate to nail him that you'd use that sort of argument?? So you believe that sort of "scatter gun" investment would be "a far less satisfying one for your average fan." which of course is utter nonsense. Of course Leibherr is chucking money at it, it's not a bad thing by any stretch of the imagination but please don't insult our intelligence by saying one is intelligent the other foolhardy when if anything Leibherr/Cortese have given the manager more leeway, more money and support than anyone lately. If anything this season shows up the seemingly "balance the books but sod the team" attitude that dragged us down and down. Look at it, the two times we've had a go and spent money are the times we've actually done something. Blew a large chunk of dosh and made the Championship playoffs, spend a few bob and watch us now ripping into teams. It rather does blow apart the balance the books/softly softly approach of you know who. By all means balance the books but don't forget what are. A football club and sooner or later they have to start winning games and showing some semblance of ambition. If you can't show that ambition in your first season in the Championship then you never will... Oh, and at the time of writing, Crouch's appointee Nigel Pearson is on the verge of taking his Leicester side to second in the Championship after already winning one title in his first year there. I'll think I'll take your footballing perspective with a pinch of salt eh?

Just watching Reading v Leicester on Sky and was stunned to see so many players/managers with Saints connections. In the crowd Pardew, Dave Jones, Jim Magilton and John Gorman. On the pitch Rasiak, Oakley Brian Howard, Matt Mills and Big Nigel Pearson on the touchline Just interested to know if any one knows of a game that had a higher ex Saints attendance?

Lol, "Intelligent money minus the ego"? That's the most ridiculous way of avoiding saying that Leibherr is bankrolling his club's transfer balance and doing it in spades. It's one thing that Saints fans have enjoyed over the last few months, the fact that we have some financial clout and are flexing some muscle. We smashed the League transfer record bringing in Lambert and the money we’re paying our players is way beyond most League 1 clubs. Leibherr and Cortese know nothing about League 1 or even Championship football so it’s hardly a massive leap to suggest that they’ve just said to Pardew “What do you need to get this club promoted?” He’s said x and y and got it. I’d bet he was as surprised as us he got what he asked for. If that’s not throwing money at the situation I don’t know what is. It’s great but that is effectively what they’re doing. The harsh truth is that people who often state ”there are two sides to very argument” seldom look at both sides on all levels. “You have to run it like a business“ is one that’s always, quite rightly, thrown around. The counter side to it seldom is, that a football club also has to be run like a football club and that balancing the books isn’t enough, the club has to competitive as well. We’re a classic example, money coming in, games being played but achieving nothing bar slipping further and further down. It appeared that the club was quite happy with the law of diminishing returns, selling players and getting lesser and lesser players in return as . It surprised no one when we eventually got relegated (twice) as each time we sold a player we got an inferior replacement. It’s like those Russian dolls, soon or later you’ll end up with **** all. Sooner or later you have to at least pretend to compete and that’s something that has shocked fans in so much as that we’re actually winning and wanting to win with a board that says, and I quote directly from Cortese, “We want proper trophies.” What you can’t do is say Leibherr isn’t throwing money at a problem but is just managing the club “intelligently and without ego” and yet Crouch, who spent a whole lot less and for the record oversaw a good manager and some good acquisitions is somehow a fool who threw money around left right and centre. I’m happy as Larry with Leibherr and Cortese as we’ve finally got a boardroom team that we deserve, proper, decent folk who have this club’s best interests at heart. I’m quite happy for them to charge former employees/legends/friends for tickets etc and perhaps give the odd freebie or two a year. What I won’t have is people making sweeping statements about what constitutes ego and what certain protagonists motives are. Until you meet Crouch and get the answer directly from him anything said is supposition. In the meantime I suggest we cut him some slack and be grateful that we can enjoy a brave new era thanks to some people’s willingness to put their hand in their pocket. As for your comments Nick, I think Crouch is one person who probably still paid for tickets/executive boxes whilst putting money into the club. I think claiming he got prestige out it in exchange for all the money he put in is a bit harsh. I would think if there was one single person who got prestige and kudos out of the whole chairman/ownership debate then it would be Lowe. Not saying that Crouch didn’t enjoy it but who wouldn’t? If you had the money and you sank the best part of half a million into the club wouldn’t you like your ego massaged a bit? Or are we all so very virtuous and pious that we can claim we wouldn’t? So sad we just can’t let sleeping dogs lie, enjoy the present, look forward to the future and learn from the past. Thank you Leon for your help, thank you Lawrie for the memories but it’s a new dawn and whilst we’re happy for you to get the odd freebie now and then we’d appreciate you paying like the rest of us….

And Leibherr isn't doing that? lol What makes me laugh is the people who always slagged off Crouch for his brief tenure as chairman for spending money we didn't have. "You have to run it like a business, within your means..." It's ironic that Leibherr has done just that, chucked some money at it, tried to get a competitive football club and it's working. Get good players in and people will go. It's as simple as that. Does anyone think we'd have bought the likes of Rickie Lambert under Lowe? The truth is that Lambert will probably pay for himself in terms of bums on seats and goals scored. The problem we had was the diminishing returns we had under Lowe, every time we sold a player we'd get someone just not quite as good and as a result no one was surprised when we got relegated (twice) Crouch got us a good manager, tried to bring in some established old pros to counter balance the youngsters. That was all but wiped out the next season and no one was surprised when we failed spectacularly... Perhaps Dellman is right with the new broom, fresh start attitude, but let's not forget that Crouch's actions enabled this club to limp on long enough to get that fresh start

Apart from the fact that you've quoted me before I changed part of it! It's just a shame that the likes of Crouch still get grief. Ok so he "backed the wrong horse" but it wasn't as if it was out of spite, it was just out of a desire to get the club sorted. It's ironic as I'd bet my house that the people who accuse Crouch of harming the club by delaying the arrival of Leibherr, did diddly squat to help the club during it's darkest hours.

It always amuses me how people in here can post something putting down one of the main protagonists of the last few years and then end it with "but let's look to the future shall we?" The reason we have a future is the fact that the like of Leon Crouch gave money to keep the club afloat. God forbid we ever say thank you for it...

I'm sorry but isn't that the thread that was set up as yet another snipe at McMenemy? That thread hasn't "gone my way" as it's yet another dull, annoying character assignation of McMenemy. That's why I started this thread. To discuss Lawrie the manager. This thread is to discuss his abilities as a manager and yet funnily enough it's you who's mentioning 19c and not discussing the topic in hand. oh the irony. I haven't posted on here for over month, come back on her and find the same dull, boring "fill in the blanks" bashing that made this messageboard unreadable before. Pardew Out. Pardew in. Lalana out, Lalana in..... ffs. I make one observation about 19c's obsession with Mcmenemy/Le Tissier that is STILL turgidly being peddled on here and try to counter it with some actual debate about McMenemy the manager and it's ME who's obsessed and wrong??? And again I find it unbelievable that you can criticise me for flaming 19c but you say nothing when he say continually slags off McMenemy or Le Tissier. Like I said, your priorities are way off kilter. You seem to place more importance on the tinternet and trolls that inhabit it than the football club you're supposed to support. All rather sad and pathetic if you ask me. In regards to the squabbling, here a little tip. Don't read it. It's what I'm told every time I register a complaint about 19c. He has the right to voice his opinion, so do I. Hence why you're now blocked so I don't have to read your drivel. I suggest you do the same to me. I have 19c on block and now you. In fact I don't know why I bother with this board, it is the antithesis of the real world Saints fans inhabit. I really thought with a new owner, a new executive chairman, manager, players and a real optimism that this club is turning a corner and things are on the up, that people might talk football. Instead we have 19c still whinging about the two people who have given fans the most pleasure over the last 30 years. So one gets free tickets, one had a betting scam on first throw in... Do know what? I don't give a flying f u c k....

What I would say Weston is a lot of the managers named as being better than Lawrie have had a budge waaaay beyond ours. You look at the likes of Dalgleish, Benitez, Mourhino and co the money they have at their disposal you'd be fully justified in asking how they could possibly fail? Benitez has spent in excess of £100 million ffs... We were a small club that punched waaay above our weight all throughout McMenemy's time here, to compare him with managers at bigger clubs with bigger budgets is just farcical.

Was there a part of the "Discuss McMenemy as a manager" that you didn't get? I am heartily sick and tired of the endless slagging sessions involving Saints legends. Can we not debate McMenemy's without someone bringing club politics into it? 19c starts a rather unpleasant thread yet again slagging off a Saints legend. You say nothing. I start a thread discussing McMenemy's managerial atributes and you think you post about how terrible that is... Some people's priorities are so off kilter it's amazing...

Likewise it's rather funny how Lowe's supporters conveniently forget the role the council had in getting St Marys built. As for Stoneham, yes Lowe did screw Stoneham up but history will show that he was right to look for alternative sources of income such as retail and the much ridiculed cinema....

As 19c seems absolutely obsessed with dragging McMenemy's name into the sewer perhaps we could have a debate on Lawrie McMenmy the manager. Not the personality, not the freeloader, not the guest speaker, but the manager.... For one I cannot forget the moment Saints signed Keegan, it was immense. Along with the FA cup final I cannot remember such a buzz about the city. It was like signing Pompey signing Ronaldo. That and signing so many amazing players. Peter Osgood, Alan Ball, Phil Bowyer, Ted McDougall, Mark Wright, Steve Moran, Steve Williams, Peter Shilton.... I could go on and on... Discuss...

Will we ever get a thread on here discussing the many good things Lawrie McMenemy did for this club? Or will we forever drone on about his behaviour after quitting the game? I can understand people not liking his behaviour during the Lowe years and that's understandable. But quite how any Saints fan can come on this board and slag off McMenemy's abilities as a manager is beyond me. It's completely and utterly ridiculous. A cup final win, runners up to one of the best British sides ever, Europe and some of the best players ever to grace the dell..... What would the man have to do to merit being classified as one of the best English managers? From the second division to first division runners up? If that doesn't merit praise what does? And for 12 years? He quit after 12 years, how can anyone play the loyalty card there? How many managers have stuck around that long? How long will people carry that one around with them? Far too often we get the likes of the house troll on here bemoaning McMenemy, re-writing history and dwelling on the pleasing crowd antics of the last six odd years. Yes I'm not happy with the ticket for the gravy train but let's not forget several other far worse offenders who actually drove the gravy train and ran it off the rails. You may not like him, you don't have to but to re-write history and dismiss some of our greatest moments is just plain insulting. I'd have hoped that with the new regime that crap like this would have died a death, that we'd drawn a line, remembered Lawrie for all the many good things he'd done for the club and left it at that but it seems that the house troll is intent on smearing and ridiculing all of our Saints heroes. Dobby still seems to be obsessed with Lawrie and also Le Tissier's failings. That dead horse is still being well and truly flogged and it makes you wonder just what sort of pleasure can be gained by dragging people's names through the mud? So Le Tissier's human, why harp on about one small indiscretion and seemingly ignore a career of supreme distinction? Why remember all the good things McMenemy did when we can concentrate on a few freebies and over priced speaking fees? Makes you wonder why any of us bother watching Saints at all. Threads like this and the Soccer Saturday one almost make you feel slightly dirty....

So the very best you can do is harp on about typos on a message board? Oh dear. How very sad. I did publish other magazines and for a while, yes, it was my only source of income. I'm re-starting Beautiful South and another magazine in the new year so thank you so much for your interest. If it makes you feel better I was spectacularly unsuccesful, I never earnt that much and lost thousands in doing so, guess I should have tried high corporate finance office work like you.. You do seem rather obsessive and kinda creepy.. How rather unsettling. Remember the more attention you give me the more important you make me... 1) Because you apparently only post whilst at work. Apparently you only work 2 to 3 days a week in the office. I'd love to work 2 to 3 days a week... And the login "Corporate Ho"? You're not exactly infering you work at B&Q are you? lol 2) Oh I think you do you sad little freaky oddball, your posturing about being ITK just smack of desperation and neediness, and on a Saints messageboard too... How very sad and needy... lol 3) You disappear for weeks on end and it strangely coincides with Pompey being ****e... 4) The only bit of sense you've posted in months But in the meantime Gareth, please carry on posting, but I best tell you... Crab Lungs has kidnapped your stapler. It could be serious...

lol Is that the best you can do? Seriously? For your infromation I wrote for the Echo for 5 years and got paid for it, wrote articles for 442 and, weirdly enough, the Big Issue ,wrote a couple of articles for the Guardian and Times webites. Not quite Booker material, in fact a lot of it was a load of old tosh but it was a whole lot more than you'll ever do (unless a memo on inappropriate use of office staionary counts).... lol Obviously the promise of a point has given you balls again Far be it for me to just you're a spineless ***** who only ever posts on here when things are going Pomey's way and then disappears when they aren't... lol So how is the high flying coporate career going Gareth? Still in charge of the photocopier or have you moved up to staionary yet? It must hurt when everybody's laughing at you when you really, deep down, want them to be impressed by you... See you when Pompey finally register a point and you grow a pair again...

Wow... what a great story Phil. Terrible news, what brave and dignified man... rest in peace..

What odds we get to positive points before Pompey? lol

Which is what they've been saying since day one.... And they still haven't got a point yet... lol

So I take it you're always at the bar when the comedians are on stage at Jongleurs? Just out of interest, can someone google house prices in Bournemouth circa 1982? If it's anything less than £49,999,999 I shall be complaining to Mr Davies via: http://www.ihaven'tgotasenseofhumour.com...

"The best thing about Harry Redknapp is that he's obviously a crook. I mean, a £50 million house in Bournemouth in the 80's, what's that all about?" Cue Helen Chamberlain and Max Rushden looking absolutely gob smacked... Cue spit your coffee out moment... Funny as ****...

Ok, he's not in the office, the photo copier is out of toner and the stationary's run out... So where's the Wally?

Surely not... he's just on holdiay from his high powered executive office job...