aintforever

I agree 100% about extremism being driven UK and US foreign policy but there was never enough evidence of WMDs to warrant going to war over wether it was obtained by torture or not. Iraq barely had a working tank use to the years of sanctions let alone a WMD capability. It was always about oil and regime change. Disagree about the slippery slope thing, the CIA have not stepped over the edge they have slightly put their toes over the edge and already been held to account for it. The idea that in today's world it will lead to western countries dragging people off the street and torturing them is just nonsense.

Normal service resumed, back to being sh!t. Our squad is so lacking strength in depth, at least we should have enough points on the board to stay up.

I meant irrelevant in the context of the performance and methods of the US security services, Guantanamo etc. Fact is the US hasn't suffered another 9/11 so as much as torture etc is morally wrong their methods have been successful - that is all the US public will give a sh!te about. As for their methods creating more extremists - the UK doesn't use torture (as far as we know) yet more of our people are going over to fight for ISIS than Americans.

Oh not your f*cking fairy tales again, I would have thought you would have knocked those on head after the Lee Rigby episode. Anyway, wether Bin Laden was killed by the Yanks or not is irrelevant, the US has avoided another 9/11 type attack in the years since the original despite becoming even more hated throughout the Middle East so it is hard to criticise it's security services.

I think evidence from Guantanamo helped catch Bin Laden, and the US hasn't had another 9/11. How is that not successful from a US person's point of view?

Probably increased the chances. But fact is they have been pretty successful at stopping another 9/11 happening.

Probably because, whilst torture is morally wrong, the Yanks don't fancy another 9/11.

Same us us, top 6 maybe, top 4 no chance. 7th or 8th probably.

Is it worth a watch? I like them both. Brand doesn't come up with any solutions but I like him because he communicates well what most people are thinking. Farage, whilst having some dodgy policies, is on the money when it comes to immigration. Rather watch both of them than 99% of today's politicians.

So Lallana still rarely manages to complete 90mins. Lovren is just sh!te and Lambert is basically an aged fat mascot. £50mill - f*ck me, even for Liverpool that is a horrific waste of cash.

Just our lack of strength in depth being exposed again. Can't deal with too many injuries, rest key players or freshen things up like the big boys can.

As it's 6,000 pages long no I haven't read it. I've read the key findings and the only thing I'm surpassed about is the fact that some people are surprised. What did you think went on at Guantanamo?

I'm more than happy to let my security services use their judgement. At the end of the day the people at the sharp end are best equipped to make the decision. Face it, no one on here has a clue what goes on.

I've read a bit about the SOE and I'm pretty sure the Germans used torture to gain information. I'm sure I remember reading on more than one occasion that if an agent or part of the resistance got caught it was usually just a matter of time before information was given up because of torture. people can only hold out so long.

Certainly not Guantanamo Bay, 9/11 happened before that remember. I would say the Israel/Palestine conflict is probably the main reason for the anti US/Western attitude.

They do what they do because of their extreme religious beliefs, not sure they seek any other vindication.

From what I have read from accounts of military people who have actually been tortured it does work. It may not be a very efficient way of getting information but you still get more information that if they say nothing.

Where do you get this information? The CIA said it has saved lives.

I'm not sure where this proof has come from but I expect if it didn't work they wouldn't do it. I would prefer to leave it up to the experts that do-gooders who are scared of hurting a fly. From what I have read (military non-fiction) it is not easy to withstand torture, pretty much everyone talks eventually - that's why the SAS specifically train for such circumstances.

Not nice but probably necessary in certain cases IMO.

Yey! Well done Basel.

Not surprised or really bothered. I expect they do a lot worse off record and our agents do the same.

Away to someone small, sh!t and reasonably local. Aldershot would be ideal.

You might want to check the other thread about using your phone whilst driving: "a driver’s reaction times slowed by 46% when he or she was making a call on a hand-held mobile, by 37% when texting while driving and by 27% during hands-free calls. For those on the drink-drive limit of 80mg of alcohol per 100ml of blood, reaction times were reduced by 13%" I don't drink and drive, or condone it, but i know people who do it all the time and they havn't killed anyone - fact is some people can probably drive better after a few beers than some idiots can sober.

Same could be said for speaking on the phone whilst driving, or texting, or smoking, or changing CD, or eating, or driving too fast, or checking out the ass of some totty in your wing mirror whilst you should be watching the road. All potentially dangerous so as bad as attempted murder - in your opinion?