Saint Without a Halo

I agree there are some similarities and some key differences between going to the Theatre and going to Football. There also some people who will watch Saints Manu because they are Saints fans whatever their level of commitment and there are a few others who will have little alligence to either side but may go out of curiosity to see what football is all about or just for a days entertainment. In all cases my view is we should encourage anyone wanting to watch Saints for whatever their initial reasons as they may find, like a lot of us that they subsequently get hooked!

The theatre was used as an illustrative example of some people going to Saints Manu without being committed fans, for what could be termed a one off day of entertainment. I think you will find that he clarifies that he never said going to the Theatre is "exactly the same " as going to football in posts 67 and 69

If you want to get pedantic about about it he said "for many people" and I actually agree with him here there are a lot of people who will have an interest in going to Saints Manu who may support Saints on the day without actually being committed fans who would probably have little interest in going to Saints v Rochdale. It was actually you who made the satement "exactly the same" in post 59 His response in post 60 could equally and most likely apply to his original post as to your corrupted version of it! see posts 66 and 67 where he denies supporting your statement of "exactly the same"

I dont think he actually said that but I will leave other readers to judge!

My point made much much more succinctly thank you Dalek!

The thread as I understood it in my simplicity is about new and returning potentially less committed fans who are now showing interest they didnt show in the lower leagues and whether they are good or bad for the club. The theatre to which you seem to have become very attached was used by others to illustrate a point. In summary I believe that for the club to be successful we need new fans for us to get new fans we need to attract people who may initially exhibit little interest. This will ensure some of them will get hooked and provide us with the live crowd growth and new blood essential for success. Similarily the greater number of people with however small an interest in Saints both in the UK and worldwide will also lead to more TV and merchandise selling and therefore more revenue and again more chance of success. so better to encourage the occasional watcher rather than send them to Reading as you suggested. Unless of course I have misunderstood your point in which case you have my apologies! How do you know which type of person coming for the first time may or may not become a committed fan? I believe our current hard core of 20k plus supporters includes all types of people and ages and therefpore by putting off any potential newcomers by labelling them plastic JCL or any other label that makes them uncomfortable we are doing our club a disservice!

Aha so you do see some parallels! However you are constantly missing the point that you need the occasional £40 pound spare fans (as you call them) to have a better chance of creating more new £600 a year season ticket holder fans. These are usually seduced gradually. Also it is the less committed fans and those who cannot attend live matches, through reasons of finance, distance, commitments etc who ultimately buy merchandise and create additional demand for TV to screen Saints matches which is where greater income to help us compete and grow ultimately comes from.

Not that I am a theatre goer but I think you will find that many of them are actually quite discerning in the plays they go to see and the particulat actors performing on stage. I did not suggest the parallell of theatre to football but there are significant similarities, just as there are significant differences. The point is theatres also try to capture the occasional visitor in the hope of turning him or her more permenant over time just as football does. Also like football a theatre that cannot grow cannot get good actors or be shown on TV and ultimately declines and dies losing whatever atmosphere it had in the process!

Not enough! Hence the reason to encourage more and with more so called plastic fans the probability of more real fans increases. Without demand from fans who cannot go to matches because of distance, time or money but still have an interest in a team the demand to put the said team on the TV decreases leading to other teams getting more matches aired. This then leads to more revenue for others and their being able to afford better palyers, which in turn means less chance of us competing with them!

Good idea lets encourage all potential new Saints fans to support Reading. Am really glad you are not in charge of Saints commercial marketing and sales department!

OK we would all rather do that! but in this world the rules are grow or die. By not encouraging new fans we are on a slow road to decline and death (for how long will you be able to keep 20k and a good atmosphere going as we lose good players to teams with more ambition and cannot afford good enough replacements due to other teams having more revenue?) in the end no growth leads only to decline in the business world (and like it or not football is now big business) and without growth we will ultimately end up the lower leagues with a team supported by a hard core of 10k fans that will also decline to 5k and less over more time. (a bit like Pompey). Any way within your 32k and growing fan base there is always likely to be a growing core of 20k plus fans who do know the words and can create an atmosphere and with success and a growing following you may one day be in a 40k or even 50k plus crowd of loyal fans as a result. There really is no choice run, grow compete or die (Darwins survival of the fittest) ! Can't say I necessarly like it but that is reality!

Actually some people are fanatic about theatre and will spend thousands and travel many miles to see a particular play and or actors. Others will go along to any old show and not be too bothered however they may also get hooked. Just because we and the majority of people in the UK prefer football dosent mean you cant get hooked on Rugby, Athletics, Ice Hockey, grand prix, cricket as well as theatre, film, TV series pop stars etc etc. We are all free to decide what interests to pursue in our leisure time and It takes all sorts! In all these past times you will find the full spectrum of committed fanatics to the occasional practioner/viewer! And as I keep saying unless you catch and keep the occasional viewer you will never create another fanatic!

No, it helps but TV and merchandising are the key and it is the so called plastic fans who will watch it. So by discouraging them we will be less popular worldwide and therefore less likely to be scheduled both in the UK and more particulalry overseas. also we will sell less shirts etc etc

Maybe we should limit entry to those fans who attended regulalry during the Branfoot days and the league 1 days only. How long will we able to stay in the pemiere with that type of blinkered thinking and what sort of success will the club achieve. Lets remember we got saved and promoted because a benefactor (Marcus who would have probably have been defined by some as a new plastic fan) put a lot of investment into the club and in the process actually got hooked on it. Without this do we really believe we would have got to where we are with only our hard core of anywhere between 15 to 20k of fans. Rather than chiding people for not being "uber supporters" we should put aside these ridiculous jealousies and focus on encouraging and supporting anyone with even a cursory interest in watching and supporting saints as that is how clubs grow. New fans plastic or not, local or from across the globe (many of whom may never get the chance of watching us live) will all help to ensure we are on TV more often and they will also buy the shirts and the memrobilia, all of that helps as grow enables us to afford better players in the market place and ultimately improves our chances of success. Also the next time we drop from grace it will ensure a greater number of fans will be so hooked thay cannot let go! I recollect the way some of our new Japanese fans were chided on this forum as being plastic new fans when they came to watch Tadanari Lee. What the hell was the point of being so inhospitable to them, they paid their money and bought their shirts and should have been welcomed as part of a growing and hopefully more successful Saints family.

And so what? does the club really care about so called better fans! to succeed we need revenue to get revenue we need more fans also as i said before someone not committed may come along and get hooked! you did didn't you?

As a Saints fan you should be encouraging him to spend the£600 on Saints and hope he converts to us once he is there. The more fans we get, the more people to buy our shirts et,c the more TV matches we will get, and the more income we get. All of which increases our chances of success So I would suggest you encourage him rather than put him off! We need to stop all this "I am a better fan than him nonsense" and encourage anyone who shows an interest in Saints. Surely we all started off with an interest and then got hooked! the more others we encourage to watch us the more are the number likely to be hooked.

Agreed but without new fans whever they may be nobody will buy the junk and the interest of TV will wane.

If we want to be a top club and have the best players surely we should be pleased we are attracting new fans as we will need them to succeed. Also surely if we are watching better players we must expect to pay the market price just as we would expect to pay more in a top restaurant using more expensive ingredients than in a local cafe.

Too true after a year of watching most of the games on sub standard streams here in Dubai, next year we will have every primiere match live on Abu Dhabi sports tv and repeated again later too. Will certainly be much better viewing

The all time one would be better based on the average position achieved in the league over the number of years in it with 1 being the top of the top division and 92 the bottom of the 4th. (for the oldies the 3rd divison Nth and South from the 50's and before can be considered both as 3rd division for this purpose)

realised? I thought they had been released?

Done

Happy birthday big Ron you set the original foundations for Saints in the top division and allowed us to set up the roots that kept us mainly in the top division for 35 years between 1967 and 2005.

Hooper, Trotter, Forte we do seem to like players who played for S****horpe. Surely now we are in the premiere we should aim a bit further afield