Frank's cousin

Its true bit the ONLY folk who have brought any of these things up in public have been MLT, Frannie and in the past LM... Times have changed. The days when players earned sweet FA and thus had testimonials and then true servants given 'jobs' etc are long gone - players earn a fortune relative to the rest of us... the culture has changed and iMHO for the better. Some of you go on about respect, but what respect have these guys shown towards the club by slagging it in public, because they have a grievence with the Chairman? What respect are they showing to the fans by having a go in public? What respect are they showing to the current squad by these public distractions? These giuys are our history YES, they are our clut heros and legends YES, that will never change, but if they keep up this dirty washing in public crap they will certainly lose my respect, as NC would if was to do the same. MLT whinging again on SKY earlier ...only family and mates has now become kids... no mention of 10 tickets and then whinged because he diod not here back because when he applied teh details for tickets had not even been releaed FFS - then haopy to slag teh club in the press, now on TV.... TO me its a classic case of JEALOUSY - they cant stand the fact that so called non-football folk have bought the club and put an end to all teh freeloading etc - its almost questioning the owners right and its a feckin sad state of affairs. I am sure there are things I dont agree with aout NC, but f*ck that, I am prepared to trust and see what happens as so far we cant complain... and MLT and Frannie should look at teh table and remember that - personal issues should be dealt with in private ...

Sure he should do his bit but the principle of the postcode lottery is something he is right to highlight. I have no idea whether a BMI or 45 is clinically the best point to consider this surgery, or 42 as it in in sussex, but we should at least have a national standard.

Neded to remember that 'interest' by other clubs in talent is one thing, watching, following, asking... which can quickly dissappear when a price is mentioned, or conditions are set.... I go as far as to speculate that this is what has happened.... to date. If AOC wants to go, he would know (because his advisers seem reasonable) that his best chance of getting teh deal he wants comes from continuing to develop with us and prove he is worth the asking price - its then win -win. In an ideal world teh clubs progress would be very rapid and thus can match the expectations of young players - we get to the point where we can offer success and prem wages and potential trophies, we will keep our players - exept the greedy ones after stupid money...

Problem is this all seems to be getting mixed up and the real issues are getting lost amongst the 'we've lost our freedom to have a laugh' cries of those that dont get it.... THERE is feck all wrong with having a laugh - and despite my dislike for Martin Samual and the rag he writes for... he actually on this occaision makes that point really well. We all enjoy it even at work, the banter with female colleague -lets be honest that often includes outright flirting - is part of what makes work bareable! Even the lads getting together and 'discussing' the ladies relative merits goes on and is part of what blokes do - not always proud of it, but I cant pretend I dont do it..... BUT the real issues at stake are actually quite simple. 1. These things need to be done with people who are happy and equally engaged with it - IT IS OUT OF ORDER, NO EXCUSES if actions make colleagues, male, female, gay, black feel UNCOMFORTABLE in any way at best and at worst OFFENDED. That is why the laws exist and that is why they should. I t is NOT for us to judge what someone should find acceptable banter or if they should or should not be offended by something we say or do - Because everyone will have a different comfort zone and its OUR responsiblity not to stray into that teritory. If we do, we should rightly be disciplined for it as it is a case or harrassment (look up the true definition if you disagree) and/or bullying - and NO its not acceptable for women to do it either, but the truth is that the 'jokes about men' which lets face it are usually sexual or question our abilities are simply in most cases less threatening to us blokes, so we tend not be as often offended nor does it make us feel uncomfortable as often... that is a sweping generalisation, but it does tend to explain why blokes sometimes 'struggle to understand why women are often offended or made uncomfortable by what we think is just bloke banter' - we need to recognse that we cant judge anyone else male or female, by waht we personally find offensive or not. 2. This whole banter issue is to some extent seperate form the comments they made about the ability of women to be professional referees or take on any roles for that matter - that is simple old school sexism and is perhaps teh bigger issue- these attitudes need to change - simple as that - and its time those that disagree wake up and realise what century we live in Sure there may have been 'dark forces' wanting thsoe two out - but they provided tehir employer with teh perfect excuse - they looked like pratts with their blokeish banter (maybe we should look at that and think how sad and juvenile we can all be... made me think what a arse I must sound like at times - 'only at times?' ho ho ho), but the worst was the questioning of the refs assistant and how they made the female presenter feel uncomfortable... All teh guff about 'recorded or not' is irrelevent - and just adds extra ammo for how stupid they must be

Problem with the way teh media has reported this is that they seem to have raised all these questions bout mics being on or off, recording etc . That frankly is completely irrelevent - only deconstructed ******s who rely on that ole 'PC gone mad' ****** could defend Gray... he was AT WORK and made inappropriate remarks to junior colleagues and about female assistant Ref - like in any work environment that is a serious offence under the HR policy - OK some some companies may have chosen not to sack but discipline in other ways, but its usual for such high profile positions to suffer the extreme fate simply because it so high profile - and you accept that when you take on those roles. - so teh question of recording in a studio environment has nothing to do with it - the offence was in what he said, not that it was caught on camera. NOt sure why it took so long to come to the managements attention, but most likely because a junior colleague did not report it - most likely intimidated by the environment and that's wrong in itself. Seems he has a made this attitude and hes been found out so he is off. end of story The debate around what is 'private' and 'off air' is a different one - and Sergai G- did you defend Gordon Brown during the last election and 'biggot gate' I suggest not... and the principle is exactly the same!

Must admit, that I often question what the fuss is about when talking running tracks and atmosphere - sure from a visbilty point of view the distance makes it crap, but I was in Munich at the old Olympic Stadium when England beat Germany 5-1 in 2001 and there was certainly no shortage of atmosphere, noise that distracted from teh game. Think its one of the usual excuses trotted out when games and atmosphere is crap, as no one ever wants to question whether its us at fans that are at fault....

...got to smile - WE STILL HAVE HALF THE SEASON TO GO.... alot can and will happen, look at us, slow start but last 10 or 12 games and its championship winning form overall - we will ups and downs, as will ALL clubs, yes Brighton have an 8 point advantage but we both have 21 games to go - 63 points available so lets see what happens. Yes we have some diificult games and many away, but if you look how tight the top six has been ALL season, its certainly going to be exciting - surely that is what this malarky is all about? Cheer up FFS - for the first time in 27 odd years we are in with a shout of winning the division and some of you miserable feckers are are seeing all doom and gloom...jeez... Sure it would derail the 'plan' if we dont go up, but its not a diaster and its not good worrying about that now, we can leave that until the end of the season after we know what has happened. Personnaly we can still win this league - yes Brighton need to slip up and drop a few points, but there are 6 or 7 sides that could still win it with a good running streak and we ARE ONE OF THEM...so whats the problem? Fecking drama queens some of you lot ;-)

Best to ignore those that dont get the bigger picture... I am 100% that NC and NA will be doing everything possible to try and keep Oxo for as long as they can, but as you say these things are never fully in our own hands. The one benefit we have under our regime is that unlike most lower league clubs, we dont NEED to sell a starlet every year or two just to keep teh club afloat and out of debt - we can reinvest every penny in teh first team and academy to support promotion pushes and players for the time when we are back at a higher level and we should not forget that its down to Marcus and Nicola that we are in that strong position, no matter how frustrating it is when young players leave.

100% agree - Great post - I find it incredibly frustrating that as players leave, teh part we playedd in their development is so often overlooked, but thats teh media obsession with teh prem and specifically with the top 4 or 5 clubs - the armchair fan who does nothing but watch the top sides on Sky and CL football is king in this day and age....

Good points, but i think we need to reamin realistic about the abilty tto hold onto the developing players - we are still in L1 and until we are in a position to offer Prem football, and not just 'survival and lower table mediocrity' we will find that players, agents and family will tend to encourage the best kids to be off. Its frustrating and annoying, but if the revenue funds further devlopment both of the first team and academy, it will help us realise the ambition of re establishing us in the prem and then as talent comes through providing an environment in which these players can achieve success - the greedy ones will always be off to clubs that offer stupid money, but hopefully the culture and financial situation will allow us to hold onto a core of homegrown that will drive the success. We have to be realistic, as its no different from us poaching the like sof Leon Best or Magoldrick from lower league clubs when we were a prem club - although they were not of the caliber of Bale, Walcott, or Chamberlain, the principle is the same. These clubs paying everything up front is key though - if they go it must be on our terms and we should not be bullied into accepting a lesser deal.

I think the problem is with the mentality that its either or - this has absolutely nothing to do with legend v chairman who has been here five minutes and we shoudl not get dragged into a debate about who we owe more to... it has feck all to do the the issue, and can only really be answered fairly in about 20 years when the relevent contributions everyone makes can be viewed in the appropriate perspective. Questions are really seperate 1. Should Matt and NC forget about the whole pinnacle thing? YES 2. Should Matt be allowed to say what he likes in public about the club good and bad? YES - he is in a journo/media pundit role 3. If he says bad things, should that be ignored by the club when he needs a favour? - up to you as we all have different opinions, but I believe any 'negatives at a time when everything seems to be going well seems to be churlish... or hints at sour grapes... would you keep doing favours for folk who sad things 'behind your back' even if they had been v good to you in the past? 4. Should he be able to get 10 tickets - not just 3 for a massively over subscribed game? Personnaly no, afterall he could bring his mates to another game where we have plenty of seats, surely? 5. Given that we are 3rd in L1 with a game in hand over 2nd spot, have signed Guly, Lallana, have invested in Staplewood, have a staple financial situation and a secure futurr, it should be seen as a positive by all fans? Obviously, even if we dont all agree on method/approach, we cant argue with the facts and results really do matter 6. Why did this get leeked? I see no reason for it, especially not if we are all agreed that the job the club is doing right now is not fecking bad... just cause silly trouble... i would hope Matt had nothing to do with it - and it was just one of his mates... 7. NC and ego? Possibly, but so has Matt. Matt is entitled to his because of his brilliance and dedication to the club, NC is entitled to his because from where I am sitting hes done a great job so far... So what is fecking problem?

Only Saints fans would take what is really a non issue and use it to harp and criticise their own...either Matt or NC.... mind numbing really. Matt has got tickets - he has not been banned or excluded, but a restriction on number has been placed on it - which given the demand for the game is surely understandable FFS? Yes the apir should let bygones be bygones - afterall as some have pointed out at the Matt was just trying to help - although as I understand it it was Pinnacle who approached him rather than the other way round... and had Matt not been involved in Pinnacle, I suspect that he would not ahve any issue with NC. And remember NC was NOT critical of Matt personally but quite rightly merely expressed some frustration that the deal was so delayed by the PINNACLE deal that was given preferential treatment - ONLY because Crouch suppoorted them with the half mill... NC was ineefct more critical of the administrators if you read his comments correctly. Since then Matt has been publivc about his criticisms... now as a 'journalist' and analyst in the media that is fine as its his job and he is entitled to his opinions. But by doing so, he also needs to understand that it will impact on his relationship wit the club when it comes to preferntial treatment - thats only natural and human. The issue of whether as an explayer he should begiven access to tickets way in excess of what the avergae fan could expect is a completely seperate issue and nothing to do with 'snub' or overwise. To then have this story appear in the papers seems really odd. Matt is a true footballing Saints legend and nothing will detract form what he gave to our club... but that does not make him immune to any criticism or immune from actng IMHO wrongly, by washing this dirty laundry in public... I simply do not understand what his aim would be by this. Any fan right now, irresepctive of their opinions of NC should be looking at the table, our recent form, teh good work NIgel has done, the investment in Staplewood, the Lallana and Guly contracts, the promotional potential and recognise that whatever some may think of NC, things have got SO MUCH better than where we were when they took over - the future really does look good, so why are some of our most public facing legends and fans still hell bent on criticising in public? Sure if things were all going pear shaped etc, 'guidance' from the outside and comment and analysis might be appropriate but now? Surely we all want the same thing, a vibrant and successful club - yes we all have different opinion on what approach should be taken, but if the results are looking good can we really still be looking for negatives all the time? What is more important to Matt? A succcessful Saints - challenging for promotion, with an excellent investmnet and infrastructure plan, financial stabilty and a strong squad working well under a good manager, or getting the hump because of the no availablity of 7 tickets? - Sorry but it has to be said again, he would have NO trouble getting 10 or 20 tickets for any other game, just not one that is massively over subscribed... so why the press leak? It does not make sense.

No dobt about it Matt's contribution as a player is legendary. And for that he will ALWAYs be held in high esteam BUT... unlike the gentlemen of old such as Ted, ex players in the modern age seem to get involved in all sorts of activties, media, business interests and providing 'comment and analysis' on their ex clubs. And in Matts case spearheading a group that did nearly stifle the Leibherr groups takeover. If ex players are going to get involved in these activities, and it causes friction with the currrent regime, are they really surprized that its not all suddenly forgotten when they are after tickets? Any 'snub' if you can call it that, is basd on Matt's activities long AFTER he stopped being a player for us and legend status with fans, is not going to mask the public criticism... as somebody above said, why bite that hand that feeds? Finally 10 Tickets? For mates who are therefore not regulars? Probably plastic Mancs? Even if they are Saints fans, should they get priority over fans who go to games on a regular basis...that is another point in all this. If you want to give up your ticket, thats up to you, but apart from the usual brovado, how many actually would...

I would say our bus is now an air conditioned coach - not yet one of those fancy posh top of the range things, but not bad... unlike those down teh M27 who seem stuck with one of those death traps with no MOT, that the 'travelers' use... with a dog on a string.

Totally legal... so Pompey have nothing to be ashamed about....er wait a minute..... what about the moral argument? The 'playing the system to your advantage' which is commonly known as cheating... well I look at this way. When Lowe and Wilde returned - it was obvious they came back because they did not like being out of control over their shares when the debt was getting bigger - we were still in the CCC - and it could be argued that had Lowe kept Nigel Pearson, let him go out and brig in expensive wage earning loan players instead of getting in the infamous Dutch duo and playing kids we might not have been relegated - BUT it is certainly true in part to say that the cost cutting was done to try and AVOID further debt and administration - in effect we compromised our division status in an effort to avoid increasing debt and going into Admin.... so depsite a right royal footballing feck up, we at least tried to stay on the right side of the moral divide... so what do Pompey do, not only have they ripped of creditors to 80% (£80 mil) including the tax man, after an immoral attempt to gain instant success in the prem, DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING when they realise they are in debt to stem the flow of cash (I remember clearly when teh club were planning their the 'World Cup' stadium that they were already in debt to £30 mil Plus - but just kept on spending. So following admin, and the creditors being shafted, have they learnt their lesson? NO do they seem to care? NO, do any of their fans question the moral and ethical approach their club is taking? I am sure there are a few, but I have yet to see any. So instead of cutting their cloth by playing kids and lower league loans (despite what this may mean for their relegation fight) - as we did to try and stem the tide - and therefore ensuring at the very least they are not only living within their means, but ensuring they have cash available to begin the regrowth, they 1) still have many players on prem wages, loan in other more expensive players, loan out the kids.youngsters so they can use the FL squad size rule and bring in other more 'expensive' loans.... This is not a case of hating pompey, I would feel teh same anger and friustration with the the financial stupity in the game whatever club it was if they behaved like they have done - we were stupid, had stupid owners that spent CASH we had in reserve to fund a promotion push which we should have kept for a rainiy day - it wwas wrong, and we paid the price of admin and relegation - I accept that, but we did not borrow money and when in a hole we stopped digging and that is the fundemental difference. The FL need to look at this and ask whether this is the way we want clubs to behave - the point deduction were brough in to try and stop clubs getting an unfair advantage by spending money they do not have in gaining an unfair competitive advantage - it seems to have had no impact on the financial approach of pompey - so why the feck are the FL so inept at putting tehir house in order?

Remeber how stupid the ole Bournemouth Chariman has recently looked - should make the point about keeping quiet and not responding every hour to more ...and more speculation. We all know that players like Chamberlain, if nutured correctly will want to and be at a club that plays Champions league football and is challenging for the title eventually. Chances are that even if we achieve the 4 year plan to the prem, the investment needed to challenge for top honours and the time needed, even if realised will mean that until we get there (if not excluded by finance) players of exceptional quality like this will be sold at some point as they will WANT to go... sad but true... its highly unlikely that the very best youngsters will stay with Saints UNLESS we were already at that top table. But hopefully his advisors and his dad recognise the value in him staying with us, especially if promoted to the Championship for at least another 18 months or so - its simply the best possible education. Those that think we shoudl just be mercenary and get teh best deal possible, forget the value and reputation of the clus and its academy - teh fact we are not mercenary is one of the reasons why parents will view Saints as the best place in teh south for their kids footballing education - and why hopefully ...eventually we will one day be in a position to keep hold of most of them as we will hopefully be in a position where success with Saints is a real possibilty.

Ahr but thats a problem - I understand the sentiment as its a natural reaction, but at the same time we need to consider what impact that has on the reputation of the clubs and particularly the Academy - the best way to expand teh catchment area and get romising kids to join us is to show that its not a mercenary environment - loyalty is gone in football - so the key is eally to try and hold on as long as we can be demonstraing the opportunity for the youngsters to develop and have success with the club and as with Walcott we will see parents and players who have been well brought up looking to support the club by helping us get the best deal. I dont like the situation any more than any other fan, but realism means we need to think carefully about any mercenary cashing in on 17 year old kids.

Agents feeding this - either the buying cluds or independents trying to set up a deal.... load of ****e - even if a deal is being discussed, no way do the media know any facts about it.

I am sure there ARE a few disgruntled folk who have fed the media the odd rumour about the club - as NC alluded to - but its a gigantic (and simply mad ) for that anon poster to make thsoe ridiculous conclusions. Re transfer rumours, dont forget agents - not necessarily Oxos but those acting for other clubs or those 'floaters' (an apt name) that try and set up deals and act as middle men to make a few quid... especially when they see teh size of teh particular transfer value. As to past owners, Lowe, as I understand it ahs absolurely no desire to go back into football and as pointed out he kind of money involved is beyond his means. Crouch as also pointed out got his fingers burned already, a fan with heart in right place, but not the experience or 'control' too much the fan and found it impossible to make the right decsions (IMHO) if they woiuld have menat being different to what fans thought were the right decsions... Wilde, not sure about what his real motivation was - I think there was a genuine desire to do something - afterall its easy to get sucked in especially when the ego massage kick in, but soon realised that a couple of mil goes no where in football and when he lost control of his investment, chnaged sides - i am sure he, unlike most fans would have recognised that whilst Lowe, made huge errors, was highly disliked, had an air of arrogance that ruined any chance of an honest relationship with fans, did get one thing right and that was financial stability when we were in the prem - its interesting seeing pompeys predicament now, but how would we have felt towards Lowe if say following 2003, we had borrowed 60-80 mil to fund a CL charge and ended up in their situation?... As to Jones and other ex employees, I doubt very much its anything to do with them - despite teh bitterness and resentment anyone feels when they are sacked/made redundant/compromise agreement(ed), most move on and get on with their lives. MLT/pinnacle? no - They tried, they failed and MLT is probably happier seeing saints at the up than any long term resentment... simply not worth it. Franny, LM? maybe the odd comment in interview, but I think this is born more out of teh initial dissapointment and perhaps a misunderstanding that folk without a footballing background have no place in football - which results suggest otherwise... as success builds those resentments will also fade - even if grudgingly... nope suspect a few agents who think there is £££ in it. One thing we have to accept is that with any success comes greater scrutiny by the media and those envious or who see a fast buck will inevitably come out teh woodwork - NC has teh right approach - simply ignore - move the bus along so to speak.

Yup Agree that Adkins made all the right noises. I think we need to calm down about all this. What happens will ahppen, but from what I have seen/read in the media and from the club, my own conclusions are that he will stay until the summer at least. I think he is level headed enough and his father appears to be a decent and intelligent sort of guy. Talent such as this will always end up in the prem... if we were now sitting top of the Championship, i would hazzard a guess we might hang on for another year or so, but gicven where we are its unrealistic to expect him to stay beyond teh summer, as much as I would like to think he would. Hopefully fans wont turn on him, NC or anyone else. We need to be realistic and not all doom and gloom - when we are back in the prem, we will at least get a couple of seasons out of our new kids - maybe more if we get a good batch that give us some success... but until thenm we need to be patient. I know there are some that see these sales as some sort of 'weakness' or that we are a 'selling club', but the truth is that unless you are in teh top 4 prem, the very best international potential kids will go - yes it highlights to me all that is wrong about football, but if we dont like it, we should give it up... because unless they change the transfer rules on young players, its not going to change.

WE have to be fair.... their are some 14 year old mongs who give it large on the BHA site... frankly embarrassing, but if they cant tell the difference... from what i have seen though a fair bit of it is the typical banter that starts when it gets to the business end and two or three clubs look to take that top spot. FWIW, would love to win it, but second will do me and auto promotion. Our bad start has meant we have been on catch up since day 1, but since Nige has been here, I think his record is now promotion form, so we just neded to carry on as normal... the odd draw such as today is not going to make or braek the season... big games to come when this squad will need to show if its ready for it...

Are those who are being harsh on Gobern and Oxo not having the best of days that same that criticised a young Lallana a couple of seasons ago...'not good enough' blah blah - these are young inexperienced players who are still learning FFS. Ince's sides are always going to be physical niggly spoilers - shame that he's a throwback to the dark days of the lower divisions - which is why they may have a run of good results but I dont think they will get anywhere playing that ****e - there ae plenty of sides in this league far better who try and play football. We cant win em all' as they say and although BHA have jumped a few more points clear, its only just halfway and a lot will still happen... another point sonot all bad and the lads have been pretty good of late so not worried... but lets hope teh rumours on Adam's injury are just that.

Taxi for Wayman

Whatever his value to us, punt by the big boys or what NIcola, Adkins or even his father say the sad fact of football life is that if the players wants to go, there is nothing that you can do about it - its simply then a case of getting the best deal. I know the 5 year plan is all about building a side of core players that have come through he ranks, but the key long term is getting to a position where players dont want to leave because of the success they can achieve by staying. The problem for Saints will always be money though. Purely because I do not see a time when we are paying players £140k a week, whiuch you would have to fork out if you wanted to keep a Bale or Walcott once they got to the standard they are playing at now... overwise we may have in our imaginations a wonderful one off Champions league season, only to see the best all leave the following summer to higher wage payers (eg the Beyer Leverkusen scenario of a few years back)... that is the best we can hope for unless wage caps are introduced and not just the halfway house based on turnover, but an actual total that is fixed for all teams... that is ONLY way any kind of level playing field can be created. I would love to see a 'no transfers under 22' rule that would encourage clubs to invest in tehir academies as we do.. but because we have 5 pro leagues with so many clubs relying on selling ybest players to survive, this would nnever happen... we just need to accept the fact that until we get to the prem, the youngsters that really show promise will go much earlier than we would want, as the ****** clubs know they can get a bargain and its only a matter of time before kids heads are turned, by media, agents and the general 'want it now culture' of the modern age.

Thing is the FA cup game profit is probably actually lower than a standard league game with 24K - why? Simple FA cup gate is split after the costs are taken into account - so even 32000 at £30 = £960,000 Take off approx 70 k for police, steards and general running costs = £890,000 FA take 20% leaves £712,000 which is divided 50:50 with the away team so of a near million gate we would get to keep about £356,000 - NOt sure what teh TV revenue is but cant be more than £300,000 at this stage of the comp - anyone know how this is divvied up? So would have made nowhere near a mil