Frank's cousin

This - we will be patronised when we win (other sides having an off day etc) , and considered c r ap when we lose - but who cares? Makes no difference, but i think we will win over plenty of other fans if not the media, not that it matters. I think we will still need to have several game plans up our sleeve though. Those doing tehir homework will look to stiffle our mid field with 451 etc and Ramirez will find he wont often have the amount of freedome he had when Villa made their changes - that said he still looked comfortable and made the pass when he had 2 or 3 in close quarters, so will be interesting. I od think by the end of teh season, whereever we finish, ramirez will be subject of a lot of transfer speculation to a 'bigger' club etc - and although it would be a shame, I suspect the fee will be 25mil + which wuld allow us to get in another of that quality - key will be a good safe postion.. interesting and enjoyable season to come IMHO.

...

Its a very important factor, but its almost impossible to define exact;y the level of impact the current climate has on our 'potential' attendance - back in 2003/4 we probably had around 8 or 9 games in which w ecould have sold 5-10k more ven at those prices - and when you look at the current price, its very much in line with what we paid then with ouround a 30% increase (total) in some 7-8 years - which at a guess would work out less than 3% compound over that time - in line with inflation etc. BUt 2003-2005 was a very different time economically - I would be interested to know how many fans we have who currently do not have an ST, because they cant afford it, but therefore go to around 10-12 games this season, and who would have bought one had the climate been different? My guess is around 5000-7000 or so - a guess based on teh fact we will get around 30k each week, with 20k odd ST holders so might be an underestimate? The complexity is that we have to factor in the concession rates etc for kids and OAPs when trying to get an average per match revenue form Tickets and then addd food/drink etc. I dont belive we have enough folk within our catchment area that would see us selling out regularly at say 36 or 40k with the current ticket prices - wont happen, but given that say 6000 extra at £20 average x 19 = 2.3 mil = we would need to attract that over an above what we currenty have to break even on a 25mil investment - (assumes a repayment rate of around 2mil per annum over 20 years - similar to the SMS loan) - so The question is, would we be able to do that? I dont know, but given all clubs do currently have issues with corporate as well, its a difficult one. OK so no need for it NOW, but as planing and build would be 5-6 years, would it be wise to begin the planning process now in anticipation or our needs/economic improvements by 2018? That is the issue really. Some of us say YES go for it, which is easy to do when its not your money, but also in part because its part of being a fan, that you like to see your club demonstrate committmnet to growth and have an ambition to match our own - to stretch what we think is realistic (fans are naturally pessimistic bunch on the whole) and the message such planning and investment sends out, influences many things such academy recruitment, ease of getting those players we want (the better, higher quality etc). That said it also easy for clubs to get carried away and end up in the mire...

You may well have a point, but until it moves beyond insuinuation and speculation with hard evidence, it should remain filed as BS.

Think this is where the confusion (and frustration lies) here - you are totally right in that no sane rational businessman would contemplate spending 20-30mil without signifuicant increasd returns. No one is advocating that either. What I and some others have suggested is a different ticketing model that INCREASES revenue - which could be done if capacity allowed AND we had demand. The model I am thinking off is successfully applied in Germany for example at Bayern. They make some 8000 STs available at under £180 a year, and change mored for the better seats - making attendance more affordable for a GREATER numbers, thus in theory meaning an increased demand and greater total attendance. I am sure that a model could be calculated that demonstrates an increase in revenue, in excess of any repayment on the cost of construction, that would allow a greater range of ticketing prices, which when combined with other match day revenue would make a strong buisness case under the right economic circumstances. Naturally this depends on the quality of the product as well and maintaining progress within the prem. To repeat, no one has ever suggested that a 20-30mil investment be made just to offer cheaper tickets and thus no increase in revenue, but to offer a greater range that is justified in increase affordability, on teh basis on INCREASED total revenue. Its a big IF as to whether fans would respond to such amodel, but given teh numbers who currently have to chose which games they attend carefully due to cost, its not impossible to suggest that they might?

Only to you and few others.... two points, yes it might be a little surprizing that we have not sold out... but you state yourself that we are talking about adequate capacity 'now' - and we could debate what impact the current economic climes has on that till teh cows come home, as we could ticket prices, which as you only seem to repsond with insul one liners is pretty pointless... But thankfully, most businesses with any common sense plan ahead and consider 'potential' based on more than just today's gate - Considering planning takes several years, + construction time, finance and a robust evaluation/modelling of likely revenue (based on a number of pricing models/scenarios) versus costs, we are talking about a 5 year process - not building tomorrow for 45k next season.... If its predicted/modelled that in 5 years the club wants to be top 8, has finance in place to support that through player aquisition etc, and that with that we could sell out 50% games at 40-42k, and the sums add up to a positive revenue stream once the build cost is factored in, then planning NOW is what they will do. They wont wait 5 years and only start when we have had 3-4 years of ST waiting lists. I think Cortese has a bit of the 'Apple' mentality about him. You can increase demand, by offering a product that more people WILL want, rather than accepting that current demand is the maximum. The current demand is based on many factors and product/price value NOW. Planning will be based on the factors that determine demand under different circumstances/product/price value - Getting that model to be accurate is the trickey part in the go/no-go decision making process. I just never understood why you and a few others were so anti fans discussing the merits or issues around all this... if you dont like it, just ignore it surely... or yu just look like a miserable bunch of ****s.

Not sure why we should be worried about options and depth surely? In respons eto your first question on earlier deals - ideally its obvious, but I suspect like most on here, we underestimate a) the amount of work that goes into setting these up, and b) as we saw with ramirez, when clubs need to sell, they drag it out to attract bigger bids so we are in limbo - sticking with it looks like its been a good move...

We talkin, wipe out or surf's up?

Football is a strange ... game... like all teh team sports, it matters NOT how you play, but how many more you score than the opposition. So it really depends on what some mean by 'being the worst'... Points is all that counts in the league, so its possible that we end up an one of the 'worst' 3 at the end on that criteria but given the way we play, the goals we score, we are certainly far higher up the table in those terms. Yes we lack te experience of some sides who know how to grind it out in te this league - and if their fans are happy with perrenial survival, but pretty much unexciting dross, so be it. The last few seasons has seen me love this side MORE than the last time we were in tehi league and that includes the Strachan/cup final side - just, because we have played without fear, attacked , yeah leakd some goals, but hey thats part of it to. Lambert and Lallana epitomise why this side is easy to like - genuine, honest and down to earth guys that KNOW how lucky they are to have that talent, and work hard to ensure its not wasted - the spirit is clear to see and that is not just down to Nige (although a big part played), but in no small part to the players themselves and the way the club has gone about building this squad - younger hungry and smarter players that recognise we win and lose togther, and want to be part of something special. We have no billy big boll ox attitude and that is priceless - long may it continue.

Sold Adam to Spurs for 12.5m on FM, spent 1.4 on Luigi Falcone who the scouts said would never make it long term, and he scored 33 goals for me in his first season at 19! ;-) Easy this lark, surely? Oh and Gaston went to Man Utd for 16.5mil, Clyne to Asenal for 6.5!!! Adam, is quality and still only 24, if anything his loyalty has probaby held him back a little, had he moved to a prem club at 21, by now he would be a 20mil+ player IMHO. When this squad really gells, and we are better organised in defence, Lee still to come back... I make a prediction now - If we can survive this season, which I think we will, and Ramirez is not sold for 30mil in the summer, Next season I predict we will finish top 8.

The slug balancer has probably blocked Ramirez out - as 'he would never come here....' Thdey do only watch the highlights - and form an opinion on that and also the researchers will be looking for the 'story, and Yes, when you see Lambo's contribution condenced like that its easyto forget how well he dows (far more than HOLT), and its great to see, but to not mention the control, subtlety and passing of Ramirez is pretty blinkered.... as is the factually inaccurate 'Villa in control' at any part of the game.... but it gives us plenty to get take teh pish out of the slug balancer though.

2112 'Attention all teams of the solent federation...we have assumed control... we have assumed control' (any old farts get that?)

So.... if Ramierez was a Cortese siugning as some seem to insinuate... would we say he has an eye for a player? ;-) Seriously, I got teh impression that perhaps Adkins was surprized we were after that calibre of player - but was ot complaining! ;-) He looks excellent and his touch was superb - not a bad workrate either - Adan and JWP will learn heaps - Most impressive thing for me was teh way we wre able to turn it around and come out a different team

4-1 - perfect day ;-)

well - give a few more games from playing together and we could do something unexpected ;-)

I am sure he feels for you to ;-)

NOt sure that was free kick....

Think the issue is composure and confidence - we have a fair bit of quality - shakey in defence but Yoshi has added that composure - now need to carry this forward - Ramirez is qaulity

Get in Punch!!!!

ramierez passing is in a different class - get in there

boll ox - poor defending again... gave the ball away in dangerous area,... Villa done nothing so far.....

NIce pass from ramierz, but adam off side...

Thinking we might benefit from Gaston coming a little deeper and creating more...

Dominating pocession, just not enough control in final third, but promising