Frank's cousin

I dont actually think it was that much. I heard more like 75K for the 15 or so appearances + other bits and pieces so a pretty standard rate for thsoe things - I dont think is about them losing the role of the money etc Think its simply down to bruised egos - The NC/ML new broom NEEDED to clean up the club - start agisn fresh and all that and you cant do that if there are folk there that are intrinsically linked with teh old regime - its sad/unfortuante or whatever but ultimately Matty and Lawrie were victims of being so closely involved with the previous - noses put out of joint, a bit of media moaning about it - the media moaning being like a red flag to a bull to the Swiss and we have the storm in a tea cup. Dont think Benali 'suggesting' Cortese left his house is a mess that needed 'industrial cleaning' (insinuating they were 'dirty') on soccar am would have helped either - since then it has to be said its brought up by the Matty and his sky cronies, no one else.

I think the reason for this is the simple fact that only one of them is in a position to influence how the club progresses or develops NOW, even if it were NC and the Liebherrs selling up etc. Matty was so influential in the past as a player, but even if welcomed with open arms he is no longer in a position to effect how we grow and develop as a club, nor did he have any impact on how we HAVE progressed since NC and ML arrived. Its not that NC's contribution or Matty's should be compared (which is impossible anyway gven they play/played completely different roles), but simply that one is here now. - Its not case that he should not be criticised for mistakes or issues that impact on fans - everything and everyone should be open to criticism, but two things spring to mind: 1) The majority of the criticism of NC is over the petty stuff and how it impacts on fans - and whilst this is obviously important to some fans, in the grand scheme of things - its pretty irrelevent as things have progressed nicely on the pitch - I guess If you reversed it and say we had a the ulimate fan friendly chairma, but were still in L1, can you imagine how fecked off we would be with NC 2) Fans still have those memories of the shiedt pretty much in their minds and the progress made since Markus and NC has been pretty amazing - yes it was funded but we have seen many examples where money does ont always deliver - so maybe some of us are simply just happy with that and feel, parking charges, ticket taxes and the like dont really matter right now? rather those and the idiosyncracies of NC with teh success and drive and ambition, than teh fan friendly but ultimately doomed manaagement we had after Lowe left....

When you a building for the future, sometimes you need to take a chnace and go get the players a) when they are avaialble, b) before someone else does and c) when they are still affordable - If ramirez has a good season in the prem, there will be plenty on here with loose sphincters next summer as bigger offer come in the CL clubs... Did us signing Ramirez prevent us signing some qaulity defenders? I dont think so, I believe we simply did not get who we wre after or they were not available at this time - that happens to all clubs - sometimes you just have to get lucky and be in the right place at the right time... we were with ramirez.

Love the second comment on that thread 'almost gone to 100 pages now' Know how they feel

Well Lahm plays LB for Germans as right footed player and RB for his club....

Agree to some extent Derry, but if the way that 'gets the best out of the team' is a style and formation that is simply too archaic or limited against the quality of opposition, whether it be defensively or offensively, then surely this is where you coach intensively to get players to be more adaptable? If we know that in the prem a 442 etc is simply not going to work/too old fashioned, and we see success with 4231 or 433 (albeit in sides with better quality individuals), I really do feel this is where the manager and coaches earn their bacon - ultimately these guys a footballers and too often we believe they are restricted to a set role in a set position... I dont believe this is teh case, yes they may have become conditioned through years of playing that position/role, but good coaching should be able to make a difference - I think that the perception that they cant is because too many believe the old school pundit view which I suggest is possibly due to many managers and coaches being too lazy or uninterested in innovation, but rather focus on what they know...

Hope he's doing well - he invested and lost a lot of cash and supported the club in its hour of need - I always had an issue with the percieved naivity in the wild spending in the CCC and in some of the odd baordroom appointments - so not a fan of his running of the club, but i cant fault his intentions or the honorable in which he conducted himself with respect to the stature, funding the club, and to be honest I suspect he probably knew pinnacle was doomed, but as it wa sthe only show in town at the time cant fault him for trying to help and funding their exclusivity. Time always makes us more balanced in thes eissues, and frankly I am quite embarrased now about some of the issues and concerns I expressed about him at the time - If I ever met him, I would be more than happy to shake his hand and apologise. I guess it was a naturally 'angry' time and I was probably not the only one who made sweeping judgements and held unnecessary prejudices about those involved, be they Lowe, Wilde or Crouch. Thankfully times have chnaged and we have moved on, and but for a few suspicious odd balls, we seem pretty united now that the ownershoip and direction is in safe hands, even if some of the ploicies are perhaps less fan friendly than some would like - we should remember what most said at the time, that ultimately, its what happens on teh pitch by which we should judge those in stewardship of the club.

These type of signings though are less about day to day play and more about what else these guys bring as standard - the experience they can share with younger players , the profile they bring and the impact they have on interest in the club and its profile, and the commercial benefits, be it from sponsors, corporate etc.

Bolox - Adkins knows his curent need to LEARN and as he get more experience at this level he will make less of these errors - He has shown that he can learn quickly, but all managers even the best still make mistakes form time to time. Adkins knows he still has a long way to go - probably why he seemed 'worried' when we were promoted - a recognition that its probably just a little early in his development having gained back to back promotions and being ahead of the plan - I daresay that Cortese has put that added pressure on him as a result because if you achieve good things you dont suddenly say, hold on we will wait for everyone to catch up and learn, you either have to learn very rapidly or it will need someone else who has that knowledge already. In an ideal world, Adkins would be given all the time he needs as consistency and keeping a manager has been shown to achieve results - if those manager shave the intelligence and innovative thinking to learn all the time - I believe Adkins does have those qualities.... but the issue is the the huge financial divide between the prem and the rest and what that does to a squad and the financial model if relegated - you either make modest investment to give yourself a chance, but without altering the financial model like Blackpool (who used the prem cash to invest in infrastructure improvements) or you invest heavily and make a go of it - higher risk, but more chance of a decent reward - Will Adkins learn quickly enough for Cortese's ambition? I hope so, but I believe he is FULLY aware of where he currently is and what he still has to learn.

I like what you did there.... Going back to the FL an Appy's statement - this is where it gets really funny... a month ago we had Appy and the press emotionally Blackmailing the players to feck off or the club will die and whats more dont take any money with you... depending on who the owner is, you may get 20% of what we promised you now spread over 47 years, if the moon turns blue and you start shi tting roses.... a little over a month later and Appy is now emotionally blackmailing players to stay with tales of woeful unemployment should theyy leave before christmas - soon it will be sad tales of kids going without santa and a miserabley small battery chicken taking the place of the glorious bird if they dont stick around ...as the FL wont let them sign elsewhere til Jan... seriously is this guy for real or has the fat in the pipes clogged the arteries to his brain as well? The FL rule seems to suggest he has a point - BUT as others have pointed out, this rule was not designed for this type of situation, and if such a rule was indeed enforced the FL could find themselves in Strasbourg quicker that Uncle As' pyjamas hit the floor when someone says 'you lookin' for business' The club that just keeps on giving...

ART - insightful and intelligent as always if a little melancholy in tone - did not really want to be reminded of the Michael Svensson issue again... I would say that that we do see time an again the 'lesser' prem sides surviving on organisation - many have defensive problems and I would argue no better defenders that we have at our disposal. The difference is they are better organised and often manage to concentrate for the 94 minutes, not 85... To stay up we have to beat those bottom 6-or 8 sides - sides that will undoubtedly will committ men behind the ball when we have it and as we saw against wigan and at times last season, when faced against thats style, we often struggled to break these sides down - its why I believe we went for more creativity - whereas against the tops sides we would need 20mil plus defensive talent to hold out regularly against the 50mil+ strike forces we will face - so I wont be too down on the transfer policy/success at this stage.

We are all better than Adkins didn't you know that?

I think we are more upbeat about defeat than is 'normal' because we proved we can compete - rather than be cannon fodder which was probably a concern many had - not only did we compete but we could have and some will argue should have won - which from apositive perspective suggests we have a good side in the making (defensive frailtoies aside) - and that is based on the fact we have just come up and in that starting side yesterday Clyne and WP, Davis were the only additions form last year in the NPC - which on paper.... etc But this will rightly wear off after a while if points dont start accumulating and I am not advocating we should be happy merely playing nice football if it means defeat after defeat - all I was saying was that we should not give up on what we are doing merely to try and get points - if we are not good enough so be it - I can cope with being beaten by a better side - we try and improve the quality of the squad but stick to our style - if we can afford the better quality necessary to allow us to play that way and win - brilliant, but becoming more pragmatic and ending up as a lower table side for eternity is well... a bit like us right now...pointless at the end of the day. I guess I am saying that I will always be prouder of our club for its values and the way it trys to play football, than the simply the being able to survive through pragmatism. I know thats not a very popular view, but the years in L1 and the NPC demonstrated that being a prem side, but making up the numbers and surviving through constant 'battles' and hoof and hump, is far less satisfying that watching us pass, attack and score 85 odd goals.Guess we wil see what happens.

Guess it depends on your perspective of whats most important to you - win at all costs, or try and entertain and most would say they are somewhere in the middle of that spectrum, afterall it is a game, and should be exciting and interesting to watch, or what is the point? Win at all costs attitudes bring to mind those whose egos are somehow massaged by their sides victories - the cahnace of one up manship over others - which I never quite get - its not as if as a fan they had anything to do with it... Being a supporter is obviously far easier when you win - or support a side that is simply never going to be threatened with things like relegation and only whether you will get to the CL final this year or not... and football is a game in which you can get nothing depsite being the 'better' side, dominating and entertaining - but whilst w ekeep getting told that you cant be a good side or a memorable one unless you win things, There will always be those for whom doing whatever is necessary is more important... Some will argue that for all Barca or Bayerns better football - they left teh CL with nothing and Chelski were 'Brave' and determined and did what was necessary tactically to win - All vry rue and if you support Chelsea then I daresay you did not care how you played, but will anyone really remember that side? Will anyone really look back at them and say they were a classic team? far more folk look back in awe over Holland 74, than the 'functional' Germans, and they may not have the medal, but they more intwined with footballing fokelore than the winners and sometimes that is what it shoudl be all about. I like the way we try and play, I love the fact that we want to entertain - and if that is naive , so be it - lessons learned will improve the results, but if staying up were only possible by a more 'pragmatic' approach, I would struggle to see the value in watching us to be honest - when you have seen what we can do and are aspiring to do, adopting a more agreesive, in your face typical underdog style would bore me senseless no matter how successful we were... I appreciate others will see it differently.

I know what you mean - but NC did not name or go into details, despite that fact is was in response to thsoe who were perhaps a tad pished off that they had lost 'privilages' etc. Does it do much harm? well it seems the only one suffering is Matty, as we know NC will simply dig in and keep quiet. I have to admit, if it was me I would like to think I could be the bigger man - quit the on air sniping - maybe start to give some credit to the owners and management on air (he only ever gives NIge credit,never anyone else) and then privately arrange a meeting and resolve it - A Matt on side would be beneficial to saints, and NC I am sure would see the benefits of that, but seems they are simply both too stubborn at this time to resolve it.

I guess the answer lies in whether you feel that 12mil on GR was all there was in the pot, or whether its safe to assume we went after additional defensive targets, but were unsuccessful in completing the deals - My gut feeling is the latter.

Agreeed the question is very valid - I think the problem is that the rep of the OP suggests there is more to asking it than merely the footbaling merits - is it a veiled criticism of NC who he has a problem with? Think that causes the tit-for tat nonsence and means teh validity of the original question is lost in that more veiled 'political' bollo x

Yes, everyone can improve if coached correctly - with Fox I think if we are sticking with him for the time being, he needs to simplifiy his game, too often out of position as a result of forward forayts etc, leave hiim exposed. Fonte, is about concentration - never going to be the best, but panic and errors can be eliminated if coached to some extent yes.

Its clear we have defensive frailties, but I am not convinced that we cant improve these through better organization and adjusting to the pace - anyone would think its a simple solution and that with enough money spent on quality defenders we will just get clean sheets and never loose - we stuck 2 past a defence that had Ferdinand and Vidic from open play... our defence needs confidence and improved concentration and orgniation especially at set pieces. The reason for the need for a more creativity in the attack is not for against sides like Man U or City, who play tehir own more expansive attcking game and allow us to get forward, but to unlook thos esides we NEED to beat, the Wigan's of this world etc where these sides will be happy to sit deeper when we have the ball and lets us pass it around - without a huge amount of success. At present our attacking style will work better against the top sides, but I believe is ineffective against the more lesser sides. Sure we can always improve the quality of defence, but I suspect that we missed out on a couple we will never know about rather than an either or decsion.

Agreed, they need to take that responsibilty and get to it.

Just a few Ifs, there Alps but agreed

Aye and I was screaming at the telly:x - but I think its great we re so annoyed with NIge in a way, because its far better that than being worried after a 0-4 drubbing which some were worried about.

Kind of a chicken an egg scenario - and as a result an impasse - dont ahve any issue with MLT feeling agrieved at NC for pettiness, but its teh whole use of his media work to give him a platform for airing his grievences in public that probably keeps NC being petty. You have to remember I think this is alot more to do with Benali and all that guff than anything to do with pinnacle - what was probably benali being poissued off that NC had terminated the letting, turned into Benali talking on Sky about needing to 'indusstrially clean' the place etc - which is pretty insulting... Squables will always exist where there are egos and big personalities involved, but the fact is only one side is playing it out in the media, egged on by the classroom fools on Sky like Merson etc - Matty should just make it clear that its not a topic for discussion. It will never be resolved whilst that public airng continues

... only thing I will add... and not saying its that important given we came away with null point - is that its is fricken excellent that we are in a position to be moaning about throwing the points away against Man U and that for parts of the game we had them on the ropes and arguably SHOULD have won. It shows we can compete and that the squad is not one that is going to get hammered by the best sides. Yes we may be a little adrift by the time they find their stride and Adkins learns his part in all this, but given the performances against city and MU, I am quite excited by this squad - just hope the we sort a few things out and we should be fine.

All stupid, but for there to be any chance of some sort of 'blue line' - Matt needs to stop using his Sky role to keep bringing it up .... and stop airing his issues in public - I think its this fact that is causing NC to be a infantile about it. Being a legend on the pitch does not mean he is never wrong and in this case I believe he is. Legend status does not excuse him form being a bit of a plonker when in the media.