Matthew Le God

- The stadium is not "made up", the club had planned for a 25,000 stadium at Stoneham. I didn't make up the stadium, the club ran with the plans for a period, St Mary's has shown they underestimated the fanbase at first and even with St Mary's, still have underestimated what is needed (as you have aswell). - The attendance is "made up" out of thin air, Saints have shown this season they are capable of averaging over 26k whilst in the 2nd tier. - The season ticket sales are not "made up" out of thin air, they are based on this season's season ticket numbers. - The lack of a waiting list is not "made up" out of thin air, this season the club doesn't have a waiting list. It has more weight than any case you have put forward so far. Plus when backed into a corner, I don't react with petty insults like you continue to do. See my final paragraph in previous post.

Thankyou, that now goes to show the flaws in your viewpoint. So you are saying "no" to increasing to 32,600 if the team were at a 25,000 capacity Stoneham stadium in the Championship and averaging 24,500 with 15,000 season ticket holders. Why "no"? Oh, and as dubai_phil and I have pointed out, petty insults isn't generally the debating style of someone with a strong case. Normally that of someone on weak foundations. Every time we have debated this subject (which is alot) and you get backed into a corner and struggle to answer difficult questions you revert to your standard style of ignoring/deflecting questions and making petty personal insults.

Petty insults, good debating technique. You didn't answer it, you dismissed it.

Not pointless at all, I just used it to highlight the flaws in your season ticket waiting list argument. Which by your lack of answer to the revised question I think you realise it is flawed.

Their starting lineup was far from their strongest possible at the time and most Saints fans would have realised it was going to be the case before the game.

Shouldn't we judge his son on his own merits rather than his father's 75 games for a club we support?

My question renders yours pointless. Numerous sellout 30k+ crowds have been at 2nd tier level (and even a couple whilst a 3rd tier club). These games are far less attractive than a game in the world's highest profile league, against some of the world's best clubs/players and with a Saints team of its own Premier League stars/internationals. It is valued at £30 because of the level of the game, with that £30 price it saw sellout crowds in the 2nd tier of 30k+. If Saints were in the Conference and selling tickets for £10 and had a crowd of 15,000 it would be extremely impressive and indicate a large fanbase. The price is relative to the level of competition. People are far more willing to pay more for a game vs Chelsea, Liverpool, Newcastle, Man Utd, Man City, Arsenal, Spurs etc than they would be against Exeter, Coventry or Doncaster. If you can't see that there really is no hope for you in this debate. In any case, do you honestly think tickets at St Mary's next season will cost £50? Really?

Since when was a 2nd tier Saints squad vs a 2nd tier opposition the same as watching a team of Premier League Saints players vs some of the biggest teams in world football?

£30 for a game vs Doncaster, Brighton, Palace, Reading, West Ham, Portsmouth, Coventry in the 2nd tier, with 2nd tier Saints players and in a recession didn't stop them being sellouts.

Stoneham was a distinct possibility and nearly happened. Cortese charging £50 next season is unlikely to say the least. Plus... you claim you don't want to talk hypothetically yet... This whole thread is hypothetical, it is hard for it not to be given its very nature of being a thread called "5 year plan"!

Or is that because you don't like the answer you would have to give as it goes against your waiting list theory? So instead you try to dismiss and discredit it. Please answer my revised question about Stoneham. This whole thread is hypothetical, it is hard for it not to be given its very nature of being a thread called "5 year plan"!

Okay, what if there were 15k season ticket holders and no waiting list? Similar to what we have today, yet even in the Championship, a capacity of 25k at Stoneham Stadium would be too small.

If a 25,000 Stoneham Stadium had been built in the late 90's and Saints had 19k season ticket holders, 24,500 average and no waiting list what would you have said if people on a forum wanted to expand to 32,600?

Wolves currently building and will go upto 36k (possibly 50k at some point), Chelsea looking at Battersea with a 60k stadium, Liverpool looking to move, Everton looking to move, Tottenham looking to move, Reading planning to expand to 38k, Cardiff looking to expand to 35k etc etc etc. Larger stadiums will be key with FFP coming into force, which is why so many clubs are looking into it and Cortese has been talking about it. As I said... I'm intrigued to see your answer to the question regarding waiting lists in post #1051.

I'm intrigued to see your answer to the question regarding waiting lists in post #1051.

Do you think I should change Cortese's nationality to Italian? At the moment I have him as Swiss, with Italian as 2nd nationality as I like there being a Swiss flag on the staff profile screen.

I didn't say they actually existed did I? You are taking it out of context.

I think it is a safe assumption to make that if a club can average over 30k in a 32k stadium whilst 20th and relegated then it can and should expand if it has ambitions of being over 10 places higher. Lets apply your waiting list logic here... If a 25,000 Stoneham Stadium had been built in the late 90's and Saints had 19k season ticket holders, 24,500 average and no waiting list what would you have said if people on a forum wanted to expand to 32,600?

I think you will find both of us have people on these forums supporting our views and probably the majority in the middle of the two viewpoints.

Can the same not be said of those claiming Saints don't need to expand?

What point are you trying to make here with such a statement? Saints have shown for a Premier League side they can sell out St Mary's vs a top side or bottom side regardless of if Saints are in mid table or in the relegation zone. You are the one bringing up cup matches whilst in the 3rd tier, expansion decisions won't be made on such games. Plus... 1) Still no mention from you of which League One game Leeds linked the Tottenham game. So it is not "absolutely like for like" as you claimed. 2) No comment on my point that Man Utd put out a reserve side and Saints rested a few players. Compared with Leeds and Tottenham both putting out strong sides.

1) It wasn't 10,000 more fans. 2) You still haven't told me which low profile League One game Leeds linked the Tottenham game with? 3) Why comparison with Leeds? I have at no point claimed Saints are bigger than Leeds. 4) You haven't explained why Everton vs Chelsea on a satellite channel and not linked to a low profile League One game had a lower attendance than Saints vs Man Utd on terrestrial TV on the same day?

Turkish pretty much says that when he claims that when Saints sold out everyone that wanted a ticket could get one.

Are you going to expand on that with any reasons why it might not be? At a guess you will say the recession, but that didn't stop Saints averaging over 26,483 in the 2nd tier this season, in a league with lower away followings.

Which League One game did Leeds link the Tottenham game with? Does ITV 4 have the same exposure as ITV 1? and so on... (I would ask more questions but I doubt the first two will be answered)