Matthew Le God

So you think when Saints sold out a game against Man Utd for example in the Premier League years of 2001 to 2005, exactly the same numbers of people wanted to see that as they did a game against Bolton that also sold out? Added to that, the Bolton game would actually have more Saints fans at it that the Man Utd game due to fewer Bolton fans going compared to Man Utd so home allocation would be increased.

You've lost me. So what? We finished 20th in 2004/05 and averaged 30,610. The season after the 8th place finish and Cup Final saw an average of 31,699 with the vast majority of the 19 games sold out. The gaps between those figures and the official capacity are largely due to segregation and away fan allocations not being filled.

How does that counter anything I said in that post?

If being bottom of the Premier League was an attractive enough proposition to attract over 30k on average, the club in 8th/7th/6th/5th/4th would be vastly more attractive. What makes up the difference in support from now on are the "Johnny come lately fans", rarely seen in the Championship or League these past 7 years, put as soon as Premier League football appears even if a relegation campaign, Saints average over 30k.

Well as St Mary's was sold out most weeks last time in the Premier League and averaged over 30k every season (including the relegation season), anyone unable to get a ticket was able to do whatever they wanted on a matchday. As soon as the "sold out" banner goes up why would you try to get a ticket from the ticket office?

That isn't what I said is it? Why are you so sure the like of Cork, Lallana and Schneiderlin wouldn't be good enough in the future, they have time on their side and I think the potential to play to a high level? Or the likes of Shaw, Sinclair, Stephens, Ward-Prowse etc? Saints have shown they can produce players capable of playing at that level in the past with Chamberlain, Walcott, Bridge and Bale. So why couldn't any of the current youth team or development team do the same? They don't need to be brought then do they. Again you ignore my point. If the club will bring in over £120m from domestic TV rights alone, without looking at all the over sources of income they will have, why is a figure of £152m daunting? It may well be below the income of Saints during that period. So where is the issue? Where is the problem?

Saints income in that period could be over £152m especially given the £120m+ from domestic TV money alone in the 3 years you are talking about, so where is the issue? Plus Newcastle have huge debts that eat up money each year that they could spend on players, Saints have no debts to eat up money. You are also making the assumption no current 1st team or youth team players could play for Saints in a Champions League challenge and they would have to bring in an entire new squad.

But that isn't net spend. If you bring in £120 million during that period from domestic TV rights alone (let alone other revenue streams such as overseas broadcasting, merchandising, ticket sales, corporate, sponsorship, advertising etc etc) then is £152m really a big deal? Especially considering the financial rewards of finishing higher in the Premier League and gaining a EUROPA League or Champions League spot.

Argument far from over. He was suggesting it was an annual wage bill of £100m, not over the entire duration of the contract. In those same 3 years contracts you are talking about, Saints would bring in over £120 million from domestic TV rights. Let alone all the other revenue streams.

20 in the Premier League 24 in the Championship 24 in League One Saints started League One in 24th place with -10 points I make 20 + 24 + 24 = 68 What do you make it?

I think it all depends on how good the new academy and development league structure proves to be. Might suit the club to keep them training at Staplewood until they are older rather than loaning them out if there is a strong games program at development level.

Their last accounts in March 2012 show turnover in 2010/11 in their first season back in the Premier League was £88.4m, and that includes the Carroll £35m deal. They have one game to go and are 1 point point behind 4th and 2 points behind 3rd. Even if they don't make it, or Chelsea win the Champions League and deny them a CL spot they have shown they are capable of mounting a serious Champions League place challenge.

£250m is "quite reserved"! You think it would need a £250m net spend to get the Saints squad upto Newcastle's level? They haven't spent anywhere near that. I think you need to guess again if you think Newcastle's wage budget is anywhere near £100m.

I'm not the one that plucks a £250 million figure out of thin air and then when asked to justify such a claim refuses to do so and turns instead to personal insults.

A truly bizarre way to debate someone. I asked you three reasonable questions in order for you to justify your £250m claim and then you back-pedal out of it. Too difficult to answer?

That doesn't answer any of my 3 questions.

No it doesn't, the spec at Staplewood goes beyond that at any of the clubs you mentioned and is costing a lot more.

Had Cortese said "we'll build one of the best training ground in Europe" and then failed like Milan Mandaric at Pompey did to start construction then I might agree with you. However Cortese in the 3 years at the club has led the club from 68th in England to the top 20 and is currently building a Champions League quality training ground and academy. That adds weight to any claim he makes about wanting Champions League football at Saints, he has evidence of backing up his claims and isn't a Michael Knighton figure.

1) Did Newcastle 2012 or Everton's 2005 sides cost £250m in net spend? No, not remotely close, good management and recruitment went a very long way. Yes some money was required but nothing like the sums you seem to think it takes. 2) Will any club under FFP be able to spend £250m on players? No, investment from owners is being vastly reduced. 3) Does it not make more sense to spend money on the academy and training ground and produce your own players bearing in mind FFP and EPPP?

You are still stuck in a Saints at The Dell and/or run by Guy Askham/Rupert Lowe complex. Things are different, Cortese has huge ambition and is backing up the ambition with evidence such as announcing a £15 million Champions League club quality training ground whilst in League One, and then starting construction of it whilst in the Championship. If Cortese merely wanted Saints like under Lowe to be a mid table Premier League team, he wouldn't bother with such a development and would reduce the scale and cost of it.

Signing them initially won't require them on large contracts if you do some good scouting and bring in some bargains. But to keep them long term contracts will need to be increased. Plus see the quote below... Cheers, I was just about to use that quote.

Delap was 11 years ago and cost £4m. Football prices have increased since then, however a strikefore of Ba and Cisse still worked out at little more than 2 Rory Delap's. How much did Rupert Lowe invest in Saints? Was it anything? I'm not saw he did put anything in of note, certainly note anywhere near what Cortese/Liebherr have done. So if Lowe as Saints chairman was able to sign Delap £4m, Delgado £3.2m etc then why not under Cortese/Liebherr in an age of larger TV deals sign the likes of Ba free and Cisse £9m? It will come down to wages, and the increased TV money from 2001 to 2012 will pay for a lot of that.

Probably not next season, but I bet we see Saints player on £50k p/w in the next 3 to 4 years.

So what? It works out at £4.5m each. Which is a little more than two Rory Delap's in 2001 under Rupert Lowe and his lack of investment. Are you aware Southampton are paying Lambert at the moment as a Championship club? Saints will get upwards of £40 million extra next season from TV money alone, let alone all the other increased revenue streams. Also, unlike most other Premier League clubs, Saints have no debt. So don't need to use any of their income to pay that off next season.

Ba and Cisse cost them £9 million in total or £4.5m each and when you consider Rory Delap cost £4m in 2001 with Rupert Lowe and his lack of investment, that really isn't a lot for Saints. Saints as a Championship side under Cortese without Premier League TV money made bids larger than that for Rodriguez and Hooper.