Matthew Le God

Yes, but not Leeds. So why did you bring them up when I didn't? Correct, though actually read what I said about it. Tottenham and Leeds both put out strong teams. Man Utd put out a reserve side and even League One Saints rested players. Correct, but read my points in full. It was on ITV 4, the Saints game was on ITV 1. Not like for like. Wrong on the attendances. You also haven't responded to every point I made. Cherry picking them. One thing you missed out (amongst others) the Man Utd game was linked to another low profile 3rd tier game so would cost a Saints fan ALOT more than a Leeds fan. Saints vs Man Utd had a bigger attendance than Everton vs Chelsea on the same day. Thoughts on that?

It isn't like for like as that doesn't match all the points I raised. I said don't isolate them, look at the as a collective. Nor did I ever claim Saints were bigger than Leeds.

Well that is pointless, as I listed a number of factors that should be used as a whole to explain Saints attendance. Nor did I bring up a comparison with Leeds.

1) I said "Please don't isolate any of those factors in your response, look at them as a collective to explain the attendance". Can ALL of those factors be applied to your example? 2) Have I compared Saints to Leeds? No, so why have you?

Again, not a like for like comparison. - That game was in the FA Cup. - Saints fans beforehand knew Man Utd would likely put out a B team (and they did), and Saints would rest players and not have a full strength side (which also happened) - The Saints team was a team in League One, any future games will be with Saints with a Premier League squad and Premier League players to cheer on, not 3rd tier players. - It was live on terrestrial TV - In order to get a ticket if not a season ticket holder you had to buy it in conjunction with another low profile League One game, so for a non season ticket holding adult it would cost £57! - Despite all of that it was still the biggest attendance in England on that day (despite Saints being a 3rd tier team), it even beat the attendance for the Everton vs Chelsea game at Goodison Park on the same day. Please don't isolate any of those factors in your response, look at them as a collective to explain the attendance.

Infrastructure spending is exempt from FFP rules. Spending £15 million on a training ground from a £350m fortune has far more impact than it would if coming out of a £3 billion fortune. As would any stadium upgrade or relocation. It is still 6,000 lower. Saints aren't expanding for next season. Why does it have to be next season? My point was long term Saints are in a stronger position as their academy has been far more successful.

You are just digging a bigger hole for yourself. More Saints fans saw Saints vs Bolton (a sellout), than they did Saints vs Man Utd (a sellout) due to Bolton bringing fewer fans so more availble for home fans. Are you telling us you think fewer people were interested in the Man Utd game than the Bolton game? And had St Mary's been bigger more people wouldn't turn up? Come Turkish, actually think for a minute about what you are saying! Saints were even able to sell out or get close to selling out whilst in League One and the Championship. When some of the biggest teams in the world turn up they are far more attractive. As aintforever said, a game vs Chelsea sold out 6 hours after going on sale.

Not really comparable... - Steve Morgan worth £350 million - Estate of Markus Liebherr worth £3 billion - Saints average attendance next season likely to be circa 31,000 - Wolves average attendance this season in Premier League was 25,672 - Saints academy is far more successful than Wolves academy

It is statements like this that make me realise how futile it is debating you. So when Saints sold out last time at St Mary's against the likes of Bolton and sold out against Man Utd, no more people wanted to go to the Man Utd game than they did the Bolton game? Absolute rubbish. Saints were also selling out games whilst in a relegation season like 2004/05. Are you telling me the same number of people are interested in a relegation season as they would be a top half of the table season?

Saints pretty much maxed out St Mary's for 4 years. They made more money by having fewer season ticket holders and a full stadium. It is not compulsory to have waiting lists, some in the world of football ownership may consider them not to be as important as you do and just let the stadium sell out with tickets at full price. Again, more questions left unanswered...

No, but given Saints have never had a stadium anywhere near as big as Everton it is a pointless comparison. Hence me asking you the question which if you had bothered to answer would make your question null and void. In the last decade when Saints came 8th and Everton are 7th this season they had very similar averages. Everton are aided by having a 40k stadium, so the average is boosted in the big games in a way it can't be for Saints at a 32k stadium. It really shouldn't be that hard a concept to grasp. Still no response to #914, more cherry picking of things you want to respond to?

You didn't answer the question.

So if someone living in Weymouth wanted to see some Premier League football where would they go? Are you suggesting they would ignore a top four Saints team despite it being the closest Premier League team to them? Why would they do that? Do they? They averaged fewer home fans this season in the Championship than Saints did in League One. See post #905 But if they want to from areas outside Nottingham, they have a huge number of teams they are competing with rival teams for. Compare that to just Bournemouth and Portsmouth for Saints.

When did I say we did?

You need to go back and re-read my points about it.

So do you think Forest are a similarly sized club to Southampton? I do. Yes, their city is bigger, but Saints have the advantage and make up the difference because they have far less competition from other local clubs than Forest do. So can draw more on the surrounding population in a way that would be difficult for Forest due to the proximity of a huge number of rival clubs compared to just Bournemouth and Portsmouth for Saints.

Yes, they did.

- Nottingham is a two team city. - Nottingham has Derby, Leicester, Notts County, Peterborough, Coventry, Birmingham, Aston Villa, West Brom, Sheffield United, Rotherham, Lincoln, Northampton, Milton Keynes, Wolverhampton, Walsall, Stoke, Port Vale and a few others all relatively close to it. - Southampton has 1) Bournemouth and 2) Pompey fighting for a share of the fanbase. - Southampton considering the lack of competition relative to the size of the population in surrounding areas from other clubs is in a very strong position.

Can the same not be applied to the population areas in Yorkshire and the midlands? Saints have areas like the New Forest, Eastleigh, Winchester, Isle of Wight to gain support from with little competition from close by rivals like all the teams you listed. Have you considered it being down to Saints being limited by The Dell? Let's just pick one of your choices for comparison... - League One runner's up Southampton 2010/11 average attendance = 22,161 - League One runner's up Sheffield Wednesday 2011/12 average attendance = 21,336 So Saints in similar circumstances outdid Sheffield Wednesday. Plus Sheffield Wednesday had derbies vs Sheff Utd and Huddersfield and the added benefit of a 39,814 capacity which meant for their derby games and run in of the season they could boost the average. Had both clubs had a stadium the size of St Mary's, Saints would have had an even greater gap between them and Sheff Weds in two similar seasons.

- Plus the 140,000 people on the Isle of Wight - Possibly could even include the 158,000 on the Channel Islands, St Mary's is the easiest English Premier League stadium for them to get to and you have the Le Tissier connection for them. Thats another 300,000 people on top of what you said!

It was a 600 miles round trip during a recession for a game live on TV, what did you expect? 2,922 at Middlesbrough is a very good turnout. What about the 5,800 we took to Place or 3,200 we took to Peterborough in the same month of the Middlesbrough game. I don't see you making note of those games in your argument. Over the last 3 away game of the season all in the same month, Saints averaged 3,966 away fans. That is very impressive and had Palace given a bigger allocation it would have been even higher.

Did you remind them that they were also nominated for "community club of the year" 2012?

Isn't he on loan from PSV?

Yep, exactly those points. Points you still don't seem to understand. I'll try again... - Everton this season are 7th in the Premier League - They have an average attendance this season of 32,879 - They have a stadium capacity of 40,394 - Their 40k stadium allows them to boost the average as it allows for an "overflow" in big games. Southampton on the other hand have averaged 31k in a 32k stadium whilst in the Premier League (bear in mind segregation and away allocations not always filled). If Saints had a 40k stadium like Everton do, they would also be able to boost their average with higher attendances from the "big" game vs Man Utd, Arsenal, Spurs, Newcastle, Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea etc. It is likely that would see them above the 32k average Everton have.

Yep, ignoring to counter all the points I put to you. Instead of answering them directly you go off on a new tangent and the process repeats ad infinitum.