Matthew Le God

The difference here is that Man City are just one rich club, but they will be up against objections from the rest of the European big clubs. Collectively they will have more power to make UEFA clamp down on Man City than Man City will of getting their own way. As for the person to say if it is out of line, well that would be the man I quoted. They will look at comparable clubs both within football and other sports and if the deal is far in excess then they claim they will stop it. Of course it has been yet to be done, but given the other large clubs are pressuring UEFA I think it will happen.

It is a different topic and would have been lost in the other one. A chance to discuss the demo, rather than the announcement of the full game.

The new rules look at the marketplace and if a sponsorship deal is far in excess of the world sports market then it would be stopped. Like with what is happening about the stadium sponsorship. Jean-Luc Dehaene, the chairman of Uefa's Club Financial Control Panel... "If we see clubs that are looking for loopholes we will act. It is not enough to say: 'We've got a sponsorship contract and that's OK' if the contract is out of line."

I don't know in the case of Man City and putting their oil businesses in the same company, I'd imagine the governing bodies would try to prevent that. However the Derby County executive even states the money earnt from the Pride Park Plaza would go back into the team and aid them under the financial fair play rules. Otherwise where do you draw the line, does the Saints megastore count, the West Quay Saints shop, the concourses in the stadium, the corporate restaurants etc etc? If Saints were to buy up the land around St Mary's and put their own restaurants, offices, hotels etc there why can't that count in the same way revenue streams in the stadium count?

What are you counting as "football income"? Why does it matter if the restaurant is literally inside the stadium or next to it? Are you also saying the Saints shop in West Quay shouldn't count? It is all part of the same business.

Derby County announced this multi million pound development a few days ago to boost revenue streams in light of the financial fair play regulations coming into force... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-15154482 Might suit Saints to do similar (along with the 50k stadium )

It will still work on some cards below that, just won't be officially supported.

First things first, where can I download the FM 2012 Demo? The demo this year is only available to download and play via the Steam platform. If you don’t already have Steam, you can download and install it from here: http://store.steampowered.com/about/?snr=1_4_4__11 If you already have Steam, the demo can be found here: http://store.steampowered.com/app/901788 How do I install the FM 2012 Demo? - Click the green ‘Install Demo’ button for the Football Manager 2012 Demo - You should now be informed of the game size and estimated download time, make sure you have enough space on your hard-drive to install the game - Click the ‘Next’ button - Choose whether you want a start menu shortcut and/or a create desktop shortcut, then click ‘Next’ - The demo should now begin downloading; you can track the process of the download by looking at the blue process bar at the bottom of Steam - Click ‘Finish’ - If you click in the ‘Library’ section, the demo should be highlighted in yellow showing you how much of the download has been completed and the current download speed - When the game finishes downloading there will be a pop-up in the bottom right hand corner of Steam telling you it’s completed - Go to your Library, right click on the Football Manager 2012 Demo and click ‘Play Game’ - The game will perform the first time set-up and when complete will launch the game I’ve gone to start up my game via the Football Manager 2012 Start Screen, but ‘Start New Game’ is greyed out – why is this? Included in the demo are the Quick Starts only, so to start the game click the Quick Start and choose the league which you wish to play. Bear in mind the available leagues will depend on what region demo you have downloaded. What are the minimum specs for running the Football Manager 2012 demo on my system? PC OS - Windows XP/Vista/Windows7 Processor - XP - 1.4ghz or faster Vista/W7 - 2.0hgz or faster Memory - XP-512MB Ram, Vista/W7 - 1GB Ram Video Card - 128MB minimum. Supported Chipsets – Nvidia FX5900 Ultra or greater; ATI Radeon 9800 or greater; Intel 82915G/82910GL or greater Earlier cards may only display 2D Match Viewer Mode and are not supported. Laptop versions of these chipsets may work but are not supported. Mac OS – OS X 10.5.8/10.6.x or higher Processor – Intel Processor Video Card – 128MB Nvidia GeForce 7300 GT or greater, ATI Radeon X1600 or greater Please note, if you system doesn't meet the requirements, the game may work, but we/SEGA do not offer support on these machines. We suggest people who aren't certain if it'll work do indeed try the demo first before buying the game. What leagues can I run via the Demo? In the demo you can only run 'quick start' games, which only run one league and a small database. The demos include the following: Australia, Belgium, Denmark, England, France, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Scotland, Spain and Sweden. Will I be able to continue my save game once I buy the full version of Football Manager 2012? Yes, all save games will be compatible with the full version of the game. How long does the FM 2012 Demo last? As always with our demos there is no 'real life' time limit on the demo, however in-game the end date is dependent on the league you're running - it'll end roughly six months after the start date. How do I uninstall the FM 2012 Demo? Via Steam if you ‘right-click’ on the Football Manager 2012 Demo, there will be an option to ‘Delete Local Content’. This will remove the Demo from your system. All save games will not be deleted and will be continued to be stored in the default Sports Interactive folder (found either in ‘My Documents’ on a PC or ‘Documents’ on a Mac). I really want to try out the Editor, where is it? Unfortunately the editor is not included with the demo; you'll have to wait until the full game! Sorry!

PC Hardware Requirements: OS - Windows XP/Vista/W7 Processor - XP : 1.4GHz or Faster; Vista/W7 : 2.0GHz or Faster Supported Processors: Intel Pentium 4, Intel Core, AMD Athlon Memory - XP : 512MB RAM; Vista/W7 : 1.0GB RAM Hard Drive Space - 2GB DVD-Drive - 4x Speed Video Card - 128MB. Supported Chipsets - Nvidia FX 5900 Ultra or greater; ATI Radeon 9800 or greater; Intel 82915G/82910GL or greater. Earlier cards may only display 2D Match Viewer Mode and are not supported. Laptop versions of these chipsets may work but are not supported. Sound Card - DirectX 9.0c compatible DirectX - Version 9.0c (included) LAN - TCP/IP compliant Input - Keyboard, Mouse. Mac Hardware Requirements: OS - OS X 10.5.8/10.6.x or higher Processor - Intel Processor Video Card - Nvidia Geforce 7300 GT or greater; ATI Radeon X1600 or greater.

Okay, him just being a regular for any Premier League team in itself shows he is an academy product of note and not one to "lol" at for his inclusion.

Leon Best is a regular for the team that is currently 4th in the Premier League.

In order to finish 2nd you need to better that of the 3rd place team. It isn't a 25 team league, it is a 24 team league and Saints would taking the place of one of those top two teams and be taking points off other teams. So circa 80 points is around the mark you need to be beating. Otherwise that would mean if in these seasons Saints finished in the top two, 3rd place would read... 2010/11 3rd place 84 2009/10 3rd place 91 2008/09 3rd place 83 2007/08 3rd place 79

Between 2001 and 2008 Newcastle averaged circa 51k in a 52k stadium every year, selling out most games and were looking to extend it up to 60k. Give it time and they will return to maxing out their stadium.

It is when he constantly does it and I doubt he has the background to diagnose the condition being a hypochondriac himself!

Even if I were, why do you feel the need to constantly tell me? That is odd in itself.

hmm... I think most people if told that, would consider it at least a little insulting, wouldn't you?

I didn't say it did. However all I have done is present my side of a debate with why I think it to be the case and have tried to justify it with what I consider to be relevant evidence. Those on the other side have been just as obsessively posting counter argument and don't have the same petty insults used against them.

I'm sure a number of people will find that amusing coming from you! Pot, kettle, black... etc

I know you were, I was joking but also trying to make the point that I don't see why you have only apportioned the blame to one side of the argument and not the other. You make that sound like that is an insult, which is pathetic.

What in that post do you have an issue with then? Just because four or five people have been against me in this thread doesn't mean there aren't other that agree with me, they may just not be as bloody-minded/sad as me in a debate and not want to get involved. However, many of the accusations of the way I am persistent with making points can also be directed at those on the other side of the argument, such as yourselves.

Yes they have won more, but their last domestic win of note was 50 years ago so not really that relevant to the size of a club today. In those last 50 years it has seen Saints with higher league placings, better cup performance and better attendances. You say "less of the plastic support we have" but what is that meant to mean? As recently as the 1980's Wolves were averaging 4k for league games, does that not make current Wolves fans plastic?

Because they are surrounded by loads of competing clubs and need to test the water with a 36k stadium. It is also coming at quite an expense and don't have a backer as rich as the Liebherr estate. They also have no recent history of sustained 30k+ crowds like Saints do. The last time Wolves averaged 30k+ was 41 years ago the last time Saints did was a mere 6 years ago!

I didn't overlook the other eight clubs. See post #170 where I said... "Most are smaller clubs and have seen huge rises, those that haven't seen large rises are restricted by stadium capacity." If you want I'll go through them...(note he uses the phrase "comparable clubs") Norwich - 26,200 from 25,400 - probably capacity; Restricted by Carrow Road capacity and they are looking to expand. QPR - 15,700 from 16,600 - probably capacity; Not a similar size to Saints and have huge ticket prices in a dated stadium Swansea - 19,800 from 15,500 (+27.7%) Close to capacity and a smaller club than Saints Newcastle - 44,800 from 43,400 - not sure if this is capacity but thought Newcastle had 50k + capacity so therefore a very big club that has shown no real increase; A larger club than Saints and so not comparable. West Brom - 24,200 from 22,200 (+9%); Restricted by the Hawthorns capacity and smaller club than Saints. Blackpool - 15,800 from 8,600 (+83.7%); A huge increase of 83.7% actually goes against his argument and in any case they are much smaller than Saints. Wolves - 24,000 from 24,200 - virtually same; As we have been through, restricted by capacity and they are currently rebuilding upto 36k and possibly 38k - 50k. Brum - 25,461 from 19,000 (+34%); Smaller fanbase than Saints so not comparable. Burnley - 20,653 from 13,100 (+57.6%). Like with Blackpool a much smaller team than Saints thus not comparable as he states and in any case a 57.6% increase goes against his own argument. Anyone that thinks that is a list of "comparable clubs" to Saints is insane! Egg you have already made it clear that you do.

You drew comparisons with Wolves because you referred me to Poking Fun's post, where he said Saints were comparable to Wolves. Can you not see how you are contradicting yourself?

Bloody hell this is difficult. Wolves went from 24k in the Championship to 28k in the Premier League. They couldn't get any higher than 28k, because Molineux wasn't any bigger than than. In the summer the capacity was reduced to 24k when they knocked down the Stan Cullis Stand to rebuild it. It is now partially complete and have started using parts of it.