The Kraken

TOM28? How about you wake up. Where in your deluded world do you get the idea that I think I'm "so sure we're going to fail and that you think we'll be lucky if we just manage to stay up" from? Was it in the part of this season's prediction where I said we'd finish 11th? Or was it from tonight's post where I said that I thought that might be pessimistic? You absolute f*cking cretin.

No, not so much. Just the overuse of effort into explaining what should be a straightforward point, really. But I feel we're digressing. On you go, fill the floor with your infectious humour once more and we'll move on, eh?

Straw Man Part III.

I've genuinely not got any idea of what you're trying to do with that post.

A very illuminating post.

You see, you were doing well until you mentioned the w@nky fans bit; as if your way of thinking is the only sane and correct one. And that the selection you'd have picked for that game is the only acceptable one. A shame that you think its that's simple. I guess that's the limitations of thinking, heh?

What does it matter in terms of a poll, whelk? Other than it might prove that some people think differently to others about it. Which, I'm guessing, we know already anyway.

Not quite that; but before we signed Ossie I had us down for 11th and it seems that was a little pessimistic. We're not just earning good points but playing very well too; if that part stops then I'll be more worried but I think we're comfortable enough in this division now for a mid-table finish to be expected.

Seriously? You need to stop accusing others of "straw men" arguments, because that's twice in a row you've had a go yourself.

The thing is; you talk about "straw men" thinking, then come out "you want to have your cake and eat it". Has our youth success in the past 10-15 years been predominantly based upon resting first team players in cup games? You suggested it; is that the main reason we've done so well? I don't think it is. JWP and Shaw made their names for themselves in the league. So did Lallana. So has Chambers, in fact.

The black and white polarity of thinking is quite astounding on occasions, it has to be said.

It's all very well being a barometer of "progress". But what then? We spent 27 years in the top flight. How much did we "progress". Not very far IMO. And, by the way, why can't "progress" be achieved by doing fairly well in the league AND notching a bit of silverware? For a club that has been starved of any form of winning top level competitions we seem remarkably ambivalent to the stuff we can actually compete for. Fair enough if you think that way, but its not for me.

As a Saints fan who hasn't seen his side finish as high as 7th in the top division since the late 80s, my idea is that our best chances of success comes in the Cup. Finishing 6th or 7th, for me, is a pat on the back and a recognition of a decent season, and wondering what happens next. A cup win is etched in our history. Its remembered by all our fans. I find it surprising its so far down in the list of priorities for so many. Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I don't really get it.

No they aren't, and its utterly ridiculous to suggest they are.

Do that and the cup is dead. And, just speaking personally, I think winning a major cup should be rewarded more than finishing 6th or 7th in the league.

:lol::lol: "But look at where we were 4 years ago!!"

We certainly seem to have moved on from the days when we so easily lost players to clubs of the like of Everton and Villa. Its still a challenge to keep the really big boys at bay, January and next summer will show the true resolve of the club in hanging on to our players, but no doubt that we're better prepared than ever before to keep them. Whether that's enough or not, time will tell. Certainly hope so.

How do you lose a debate? Surely its just an exchange of different viewpoints? Sometimes you might change your opinion if the other side puts up some good reasoning, but otherwise is it not just two different sides of an opinion coming together? I'm not even sure you can have a right answer to the question "should we have played more first teamers against Sunderland?", just some people who'll believe yes and some who'll believe no.

Jeff, I think pretty much everyone knew before the game that we wouldn't play a full strength team. That said, did anyone predict we'd play such a changed side? I don't know, I didn't really pay much attention. But I know that I was hoping we'd play more first team players. When I found out the team I was disappointed and expected defeat; so much so that I bet on Sunderland to win (shame on me etc.). So I don't think you're right in suggesting that a below strength side was a surprise. More that it was disappointing (to some) that we made so many changes, and notion that an opportunity might have been missed had we gone for a stronger line up.

We've also got rather a lot who place more stock in finishing in 6th place in the league rather than winning a major trophy (and while the League Cup has been devalued over the years it is still a major trophy).

Come on Diggers, you're better than that, you can see through the black and white of it. What about the reaction had we played a few more first framers, won the game and come through entirely unscathed by injury. Then it would have been a risk worth taking. ultimately it comes down to opinion so there's little point saying one way or the other is wrong. Some think the League Cup is just an irritation to league progress; fair enough, but others see a little different, and while league form is of course the main priority there might just be room for other priorities too. I remember similar debates in JPT year when people said cut progress would hinder promotion chasing, yet there was little evidence to suggest it was the case either way (in fact our league form got better and better the further we got in the cup).

You're not the only one Benny, but it's a shame you have such a simplistic take on things that anyone who doesn't share your POV is a "troll"(ironically that's rather troll-like behaviour in itself, but that's by the by. I maintain that progress in the league and trying to win a cup are not mutually exclusive efforts. So, for me, it was a shame we didn't make more of this opportunity.

I was just responding to your plate of nonsense, I have no time at this late hour for anyone else's.