Dangermouth

I came to that conclusion too. He still wasn't that good and to some extent I think that as Newcastle had opened up and expended a lot of their energy when they were chasing the game they made it a bit easier for us to get the last 3 goals.

Agreed. And agreed that it is something that both Puel and Pellegrino and possibly a lot of others; managers, pundits, coaches, journalists (cough), fans (coughing fit) fail to see. Look back at Yernited when they were good and won a lot of games, they were on the attack all the time. No idea of the possession figures but do recollect they had the ball a lot and looked to make chances in order to score goals in order to win games. Anyone who thinks that because we pass the ball around between defenders a lot means we're winning the game. unless it's right at the death and we're doing what Liverpool did years ago and just killing time, shouldn't be allowed in a stadium.

A fair result yes, but based on that both sides wouldn't look out of place in the lower reaches of the league below. I would say 'average' is being generous.

Thought about this quite a lot after that game. It seems not only VVD is not trying their hardest and I do wonder if the manager has anything to do with it. Today's game at time looked like a Sunday league one and I do think we will be looking for a new manager next year. I hope we'll still be in this division as we do so. I do now believe that a good manager e.g. Silva would do better with this team. Yes, we really do need quite a lot of upgrades but a better manager/tactician/someone who doesn't come across as at times only being capable of quoting the training manual would and could get us more points. For now I think we should sacrifice good football (from years ago, remember that?) for points. As for the Southampton project and 5 year plan, I think they're royally bugg ered.

Normally us against the Mags at SMS is a home banker. I'm a bit worried about this one though. I reckon it might be a Shelvey belter from yards out that does it too. Let's hope it's an attack-minded team that's put out.

Spend. Wonder if we can get Benitez?

And that his decision-making is poor (e.g. perhaps he's not aware enough of what's going on around him or panics). I think the important question that has to be asked of him both now and for the rest of the season is has he, and will he, improve on his previous performances for other teams and will he do so substantially. If he doesn't do the latter then my view is that he was a bad purchase and he won't get better and he won't improve the team/squad sufficiently to have us challenging the top 4/6 which is where we (as stated by the club; personally as a fan I want us to win everything for a bit) want/expect to be.

I like the abstraction. Some elements I might argue with, equally some might be more nuanced were you to expound so .... But goalies? Surely you know they're the best strikers in the world, or think they are?!

@ OP. How can you say anything if you're mute?

So the censor doesn't accept a female dog? How about 'sow'?

*****. Have a thumbs up. I have no facts about how well Saints have done unless the "Southampton Way" is to be rebranded as a cure for insomnia.

Looking at some of Lambert's goals and knowing he wasn't fast, we still managed to get at teams before they were set rigid to prevent us doing anything other than crab football. Adkins could do it, why can't his successors?

Last season I thought you were too much of an apuelogist; this season I find I agree with you a lot. I am, regrettably, still to be convinced by MP and find myself starting to lean towards the 'he's too inflexible, doesn't get it, wants to play slow, boring, pointless football' people although I am going to give him until December/January. After that, I think we'll be fighting off relegation again so I'd call up BFS and ask him to come and save us. The future's bright, the future's not the current board (but I hope we don't start giving silly jobs to nephews of friends and the like). : ((

Most intelligent managers (which I'd like to think is quite a lot of them in that they do understand the game) want control of the game and the current 'best' way is numbers in midfield which was not a trend when 'give it to the tricky winger' was all the rage and which got torn up a bit when Wimbledon went route 1 and succeeded against far better teams and players because of their work and strength. Pochettino made the sensible comment that it was not where people start but where they play and end up that's the important thing: if you do things well in groups you can outnumber the opposition. If you do well in your 1:1 battles against your opposite number you cause the other team problems. This is not science or revolutionary thinking: it's an observation of what happens in a game and has always happened. If everyone just played in the rigid fashion defined by a structure every team would play like Puel's and it would probably just be a case of 'give it to Ronaldo and let him score cause he's good'.

The goalscoring record of most of our players is crap. The shots on target record of most of our players is crap. Davis has already got his one for the season. That limits us to another 10-15 goals all round if either Austin and Gabbiadini get injured or if their current form of 'not a lot' continues.

Well then, as derry has said repeatedly we're ****ed cause most of the bodies that we have that would arrive in the box are **** in front of goal. Add to that that we play in a predictable fashion and too slowly and in too pedestrian a fashion and ... well, we've been there before. They probably need to arrive in the box in the same fashion that they do in Man City games - lots of clever interplay to cut teams open and then the defence isn't set and organised and waiting for a cross right onto their head, or we need a front line that is a lot faster so they can get up to the opposition box quickly in time to support the player making the incisive pass which requires Gerrard's hollywood balls or Scholes' well-read quick balls or well, something we haven't got or .... Let's wait and see if a style of play that is effective for the league and the opposition will arrive before we find we're skirting the relegation zone in February and everyone's getting very nervous. I would like to see some flexibility/adaptability from our managers (and players) and think that if we're going to play the way MP says we need to pretty much get rid of our midfield; certainly the attacking ones.

You mean someone who's 22 who acts it, not like a knob who thinks he knows everything and acts like his grandma?

Dunno. For the working class it still would appeal. That's those who work not those who say they do and get someone else to do it, btw.

Yup. Cause N American sports spectacles are sterile.

While this is true, isn't it more the case that you aren't trying to get a penalty when you're dribbling past them but trying to get past them to get a shot/pass in? The other situation is a bit more like where SL deliberately slows up and knows that the defender is going to (stupidly, because anyone with sense wouldn't) try to tackle him and he makes sure that he's kicked (or something like that). I think the distinction is more about gamesmanship vs good play. The phrase itself, however, is just how it's said by some, surely? Might just as well say 'awarded' a penalty.

Beckham was ****, especially in an England team that was overhyped and a fanbase that believed it. Sorry, JWP's dad; haven't you got some soliciting to do?

At this rate Koeman'll be kicking his heels waitng for the Holland job when it comes up in the Summer.

Maybe his choice of delivery is wrong? So what if it looks nice and has a good curve to it? If it relies to have a head on the end of it (and VVD missed a few last season e.g. Inter away) and the better ball is something else why isn't the right or optimum decision being made? His dead ball deliveries are better than the ones where it's moving but they seem to be all sizzle, no steak.

He's over-trained and incapable of varying what he does. A intelligent footballer (e.g. Josh Sims) will keep changing things and adapting to the play to make things happen, to keep the opposition on their toes, because he likes playing in a more expansive fashion, etc. A less capable one will just 'do as he's told'. Must be why Les Reed likes him.

He is an intelligent player, with a decent technique, touch & football brain. I do, and always have disagreed with this assessment. He is coached, and coached well, and has learned it well but does not have the natural instincts to see space, to recognise a possible run, to pick a pass, he cannot dribble, his body positions at time are of someone who is consciously thinking "left foot here, right foot there, body at 45.3 degrees and xx" rather than (and it's a good example because this player was a purely instinctive talent) Ronaldinho who could make things happen that most couldn't even contemplate because he did have this 'brain'. Ibrahimovic is another example of an instinctive player as is Rashford (who is younger than JWP and a far better player) as is Trent Alexander-Arnold at L'Pool, as is Solly March as is...the list goes on. As to Angelman's point about giving people time (which is so obvious, but it is worrying that it has to be stated) some things are apparent quite quickly e.g. lack of pace. That is unlikely to change dramatically and the intelligent footballer (and fan) expect a player to make up for that in some way once it's identified and given that's it's going to be a fixed part of someone's game it's pointless for some to say 'it'll improve'. The thing is though that JWP isn't someone who will dribble with the ball, use pace, do this, do that. He has what attributes he has and given the speed of the game he has to work on instincts and his instincts are to be a crab. I knew a lad who was really fast but hadn't much skill. I knew someone who had tons of skill but was bloody slow. Both in some way could offer a lot but their deficiencies, even with coaching, would have meant they couldn't make it professionally. That applies to lots and lots of players. If SFC are screening players for a number of attributes are they screening out the important ones: e.g. natural sportsmen who might be a bit **** in front of a camera when being interviewed (e.g. Harry Kane), but are footballers (e.g. Harry Kane)?