Dangermouth

You asked what peoples' expectations are (now). They will have dropped as the team's form has. So your comment (in bold) is somewhat self-fulfilling. I had expected us to win something or come very close. Now I expect we should survive in the league. I had hoped we would win something this year or next. Now, particularly in view of Reed's resetting of what the club's goals are I expect that the club will sooner rather than later change ownership. Like many, I fail to understand quite why people would take a win at all costs. That would only happen were it a necessity and I would expect/hope that once that were no longer the case that good football would once again be the norm. If I want to watch **** I can go down the local pitches to see hopeless idiots who don't have a clue.

I disagree. Anyone that reaches the conclusion that Shane Long is a "creative forward" needs to lay off the juice for a lifetime. It has a much value as the rest of the opinions here and that is all.

There is nothing to 'misunderstand'. The question is whether or not it is palatable to the fan base. How many of us enjoy seeing those we have groomed go on to do much better than we are? How many of us at this point in time care so much about the fact that we went into liquidation in view of the situation with which we are now faced? The point about this is that those who still hark on about that come across as the type of person who lost their first love when they were 13, will never find the same again and now, aged 75 still go on about it. Or those who blather on about a questionable world cup win in 1966. Consign it to history. Saints fans, at least those who saw the team back in the Dell days can remember some extremely good football. They can remember a team that could, on its day, play scintillating football and destroy the opposition and they can remember a team that had a form of pride in what it was and a club that had a certain feel to it. The model you have described is short-term and subject to failure at any time as just a few decisions gone awry can bring it down; it is passionless, cynical, unloveable and frustrating and if it reflects the views of those who espouse it as a good model it reflects quite closely both the quite appalling tenure of Mr Lowe and a great deal that is indicative of the wrongs of what is deemed 'modern society' and those that support it. To use a phrase in a different manner than it is normally used in, it is 'anti-football'. By and large a proper football fan, and that is not someone who cares too much about a balance sheet because they do not **** over numbers, cares about the things that are intangible and involve the things that human beings (not those who **** over numbers) care about. So in some ways those fans would probably rather see the youth fail than the current business model or players that did give their all. That has to be tempered with the desire to see good football (and even the many good players you have quoted have failed to do that) which is what many want to see and winning because that is now deemed a necessity because some (usually for reasons of gross stupidity) 'need' the club to be in the top tier. Turning to the pronouncements of the club et al it seems to be the case that they wish to emulate the more successful clubs of the current era and the fans both want this and would like it (who would not) and there are many indications that this has had an effect on how the fans view the club. It could be that behind the scenes the new direction alluded to by Guan was one of simply looking to tread water by way of bringing through the youth players (many of whom, to be fair have shown signs of being players capable of playing at this level once they have found their feet over the next season or two) but that is unlikely to both satisfy the newer football fan who has more interest in things other than football (which is almost now a fashion accessory to many) or those who want to be competitive. And this is competitive sport after all. I would suggest that it is you who misunderstands. What you misunderstand is football and football fans. If, ultimately, you cannot 'get' what I have said perhaps another pastime might provide you with more satisfaction. If you do then you will understand that to effectively do all the hard work, produce the goods and then be ignored and have others take the credit and reap the rewards (this current business model in many ways) is, or ought to be, deeply unsatisfying to anyone with any degree of self-respect and understanding of what constitutes good and bad, right and wrong.

Forster's a professional football player playing in a public environment. This is very different as he performs in a situation where he is going to receive criticism and he should both expect it and be able to deal with it. If he cannot, it is surprising he made it as far as he has in competitive sport and he himself should know when he has not held himself up to the highest standard and should work to correct this. If he can/will not he should resign. As he is also (apparently) not only a top sportsman but one of the best of the best, he really should be able to demonstrate consistently that he deserves that title. This is not to say that there should not be debate about whether he should (or not) have saved a certain shot, for example, but that he should be able to do well what would be considered the basic skill of the sport and his position e.g. come to collect the ball, kick it where he wants it to go and so forth. That's just to reply to your rather inane comment about whether or not Forster should not be criticised. As for the football (I think there was some) while I would have thought that CP should be given until the end of his 2nd year to see how well he can do overall (the signs are against him at present) I do think that we should take a page out of our ex-chairman's book and look at the now-available Rowett. That's simply because I consider that there is (or may be) better options out there and being aware that these things tend to spiral downwards I think that it is very likely that things will get worse and CP, for whatever traits he possesses, will be unable to arrest that and might perhaps contribute to it.

I agree with this.

@ OP. Let's not change like the wind; it's terrible being downwards of it. Nor should we be happy clappers and club apologists. Wait and see is the answer. Thus far it seems that all (most) of the reports of CP from his previous tenures in France are accurate. FYI OGC Nice are still hanging on at top of the league at present so must have a good team. They score about 2 a game. Perhaps the likes of Window Cleaner can tell us more. It seems to be a thing with this team and has been for a while: if we cannot win easily we struggle. The goals for column is very worrying as is the turgid fare on offer. What we need to recruit is mentally strong characters who will inject some of that into members of our squad and perhaps things will happen. Otherwise, provided we survive (and do well next year), we'll have to see if CP has his contract renewed. As our ambitions are far loftier than we have shown at the moment and currently it does not look as though we will win anything as we are playing very poorly - which surely by now is required if we are not simply to exist as "also-rans" - then CP's fate looks somewhat grim. Perhaps a few of the players' fates too. Merry Christmas and all that.

Actually it's probably more revealing than you think. Even though it lacks a great deal of information about the money spent. It must be over a certain time period as MU haven't spent that amount this year or even this year and last year combined and the * indicates this. Of those teams mentioned most, bar Everton, are in a good position in the league and expected to do well. Even both of the Manchester teams that are currently not performing as hoped for/expected. The next twenty would be revealing provided it contained a larger number of PL teams as I suspect it would. Our first team squad has been assembled over quite a period of time e.g. Fonte has been there a long while and contains a number of players who presumably cost £nil (e.g. McQueen). Of the expensive players (circa £10m or more) we have we can look at Hojbjerg, Boufal, Tadic, VVD, Bertrand, Redmond, which together comprise the greatest part of that sum. The figures do seem, by and large, to reflect the other measures you've indicated are better. Regardless, we've spent a lot. Currently it seems we have yet to receive sufficient bang for our buck.

I thought he'd be the next one before he got injured and then I thought he'd lost it. Maybe just took a bit of time for him to recover. Think there's quite a lot to come from him and suggests we'd best not write off JRod too soon (at all; with him it's a mentality problem).

Homer's damn clever, you know? I believe SMcQ (who, I admit I thought too 'pondersome' and one-footed, having watched him a lot for the U21s and so on and so unlikely to make it at this level) is actually a proper Saints fan so he might be a bit harder to shift than most. I do also like his interviews: he doesn't speak like a PR plant and he is reasonably eloquent. I am also happy to say having seen him play in the flesh now that for the most part he's doing well. I'd still like to see him take people on a bit more. It does beg the question how would many of the others fare given that a lot of them seem to actually take to playing at 1st team level very well and better than seems to be the case when playing for the U23s. Maybe it's because the game's so much faster so they don't have to think about it so much.

Doesn't actually say much (I read both paper and the newspaper guff). Essentially when faced with a number of decisions the sportsman/woman chooses one and seeks to make the optimal. This is stating the obvious. Then they show that they can do so at speed: far faster than the general population. Again, no surprise as given the speed of the game at the level at which they play they are used to working at speed - you can compare this to the reactions test that Hesketh scored well at recently. A lot of it is practise. It didn't say which players, which positions, ages, etc which could have produced some element of information that is otherwise missing nor did it explain who the normal cohort were and how they had come to be measured. I assume they would have done like they do with other psychometric tests and taken samples from all over but whether these again factor into themselves differentiating factors e.g. age, time test taken, circumstances under which taken and what variance has been allowed for in assessing the degree of validity of the tests therefore. It does seem to reflect part of what SFC have done (lots of short, blonde clones in the youth team) in that they have not gone for the obvious physical attributes (although I believe that many successful players have been recruited in the opposite fashion) and it was interesting that it was apparently the case that it seemed to have an inverse correlation to IQ to some extent (think Gazza vs e.g. MLT who both would presumably would do well at this test) but it is still the question as to how much of this is learned and whether it is simply the case that football training prepares one to do well at this kind of test.

Agree although I think it's more he just over-thinks things a bit. As for the point below yours I think CP (and others) are doing a good job of changing our mentality as a team and a club somewhat which is what is needed to stop us blowing hot and cold. Basically we need to become a bit nastier e.g. like Costa and we'll do well (but without going to the extremes that Costa has in the past).

Other fans also hand out song sheets. Especially for new songs. It isn't at all cringeworthy (I'm in the mood to suggest to the OP that they use this word as it's correct and the one they used isn't), but that aside I enjoyed your rant and concur with it. I tend to follow along and sometimes even just grunt the tune because I don't know the words but I can make some noise.

I agree although plainly you meant to type a "5" and accidentally hit an "8" (otherwise why is 8 ok? Is excellent 5487984466468?)

I rate Clasie and still think we've not seen him at his best although I do wonder if he can reproduce it in this league. He's another I think we should look at at the end of the season. PJH will be a very good player and listening to him talk you can see he has a good appreciation of many things, not just football. I also liked his comment about the need for SMS to be louder.

Why do you listen to the commentary when you're at a game? There's an Arsenal fan who can't see much who does but unless you're in a similar situation this strikes me as wholly bizarre. Honestly, why not just watch it at home if you don't want to fully participate in a live spectacle? You might as well go to see someone live and listen to their GH on your iphone.

U23s will probably now be shown on the new site like most other vids. I like the idea of putting players up an age group of they're doing well. It's almost like a mini-loan to a league side in that they get to see what the next step is.

Liverpool, Spurs, City, Chelsea all look strong and we've only played one of them. Win the next 7 games against them and we'll have 34 points in total once we're done.

Mmm. Isn't that what's classed as 'filler'? At least it has a number of words and might be of benefit for those who don't follow Saints but all those people will do is repeat the press mantra of "They sell players and buy new ones and don't do awful, like", then they'll ask why their club don't do it or wonder who they'll buy from us in the Summer. The exceptions are Chelsea, Man Utd, Leicester and City because they just buy 'superstars' and even then they all look at VVD, Bertrand, etc. They also then say the same when we cross their minds, as we do infrequently, anyway.

Two things about the songs. Why aren' they online in a sticky somewhere so those who don't go every game, etc can get to learn them? It's easier to look it up if you want than trying it on the hoof. Most other teams always comment that we have only one song. Would be nice to prove them all wrong with a selection, but they have to be known about and learned. Why not ask the club for a weekend in the off-season to attend for 'choir practice'?

3/ Yes I know you hadn't taken the report seriously.

1/ Happy with Puel. 2/Newspaper talk. Simeone's said he wants to go somewhere where he knows the language and he doesn't know English.

I had thought similar myself. As Targett seemed to do quite well in the 3-5-2 of last year if he has the legs it might suit him although I think McQueen is probably the better option overall. He wasn't as good as some made out yesterday but you could see when he argued with the ref about him not giving a corner that he was comfortable in his role. The thing I'd like to see with him and Targett is that they try it on a bit more when attacking the full back rather than play it safe.

I'd bring in a fitness coach. Since they didn't replace Jan whatsisname we have had a load of hamstring injuries so the medical team must be doing something wrong.

They were garbage. We were ok too in the 1st half once the nerves had settled. JRod reminds me of when he joined us: a bit tentative. I think he'll be fine but it'll take a few months. JWP was ok first half; used his body well, passed forward. Went into safety mode in 2nd half - wonder if he needs to learn to get a bit more riled like VVD does. Wonder if he might have had a negative effect on the younger players too: SMQ was ok but again he was a little safe at times. Think the ref was very biased. Should have carded at least one of them far, far earlier. I hope they're not too defensive in two weeks' time and we have a couple of players back. Would be good to destroy them: they deserve it. We also want to win the group to get a favourable draw in the next round. Let Sparta get the team that drops down from the CL (unless it's Celtic). Would be tempted to start Olomola next time if we don't have fit forwards: they don't like playing against pace. As for the comment about Sam Gallagher: it's good he's getting minutes in the league below to toughen him up and get the experience of a hard campaign under his belt. I don't think CA is unfit; he can't be really, can he? I just think he's used to playing in a very restricted area and his body has learned that. Now he has to move outside of it and it takes time. Think the disallowed goal should have stood.