hypochondriac

I'm not sure why Hamas have such a bad reputation. I mean they did take their hostages to a hospital so they aren't all bad. The ones they didn't rape and murder anyway.

" If you are one of the hostages you have probably got more chance now of being killed by the IDF than Hamas." Thank goodness those Hamas fellows took these people under their wing to keep them safe from the IDF. Held hostage for their own protection!

Who woild have thought a thread on Israel would have given me such a laugh on a Sunday night. Some absolute gold on here lads. Thanks for that.

I thought you had me on ignore? You mentioned it multiple times for over a year yet you keep looking at what I've posted. Bizarre behaviour.

Good point. Mods could we have the wanking emoji back please?

I watched us play in Milan and Prague and get extremely close to winning a meaningful cup. It's absolutely worth it.

I reckon it's an act. I think he's retired and lonely and likes a bit of jousting on here. It's why he moans about being bullied and putting everyone on ignore but keeps responding to people who disagree with him.

You make great posts Weston. Keep it up, don't let the forum bullies try to hound you off the forum with their insults.

Expect we could get a reasonable RB and CB in. Maybe Shea Charles will step up more for Downes. To be fair we are in a reasonable position as the likes of Edozie, Bree, Adam Armstrong, amo-ameyew, ross stewart and Jack Stephens are all decent championship players and we should be confident in keeping most if not all of them should we fail to get promoted. SLight chance we could keep Alcaraz for a season too which would be superb. Could line up as Bazunu Bree Bednarek Stephens Manning Charles Smallbone Amo-Ameyew/Fraser Edozie Alcaraz? Armstrong/Stewart Which isn't a half bad Championship team (probably need something more in midfield and maybe an Alcaraz replacement but we'd probably make a signing or two.)

Expect we will be relying on some of the youth more next year if we don't go up.

Ok then. Like you say, there's usually some underlying issues that this person is dealing with that causes them to develop these conditions. I will accept your idea that gender dysphoria is not the mental illness but the symptom of other mental illnesses that the person is suffering from (although I still don't think that we'd have such reluctance to call the other syndromes I outlined mental illnesses.) What we could say instead is that there are underlying mental conditions/illnesses that cause someone to develop gender dysphoria but that is semantics really as they're still mentally unwell. The underlying causes of the distress are what should be treated and therapy to allow people to accept themselves and see the value in who they are rather than operating on them.

I accept that some people are born believing they are the wrong sex (sex and gender are not the same thing) and that that causes them distress (although there are some studies that show that events in childhood can have significant parts to play in a gender dysphoria diagnosis) just like some are born attracted to someone of the same sex to themselves. I don't agree that the best treatment for that is to do unnecessary medical procedures that involve removing genitals, pumping hormones into their bodies with all manner of horrendous side effects and then to participate in a delusion that this person is actually a woman (assuming it's a biological male) and has actually changed sex. If the same procedures were required by some in order for the to be a homosexual then I'd have the same objections. But they aren't.

Genuinely I'm not trying to catch you out or anything, what do you think the big differences are between those wanting to remove their penis to relieve distress and those wanting to remove some other appendage for the same reasons? Because to me they are exactly the same thing and I don't understand why some people would treat one condition by preventing them from causing themselves harm and would treat the other by performing an operation and turning them into lifelong medical patients. Why would we not treat the man who wants to cut his arm off the same and operate to remove it at his request if it relieves his distress? Like you say, there's usually some underlying issues that this person is dealing with that causes them to develop these conditions. That's what I believe for gender dysphoria too which is why the underlying causes of the distress are what should be treated and therapy to allow people to accept themselves and see the value in who they are rather than operating on them.

I don't think it's particularly controversial to say that if you want to have your fully functioning penis removed and have all the associated medical problems that will inevitably cause then you're mentally unwell. I accept that not everyone with gender dysphoria wants to do that but for the ones who do, I'd say it's tough to argue otherwise. It could be argued that even taking cross sex hormones for non medical reasons is a sign of mental illness given the horrendous side effects that many of them cause (cancer, premature aging, brittle bones, etc.) I'd say you'd almost need a different term for these people as they seem to me to be quite different from some men who just want to wear a dress for their own comfort (or indeed some individuals who are autogynophiles and presenting as a woman is a sexual fetish.) although I suspect there is some overlap between the groups. I have less of a hard time with those who accept that they will always be biologically male or female but understand that they have a disorder which means that they want to present as the opposite sex to help them to feel less distressed. I have more of an issue with some people who just want to wear a dress and get into women's spaces such as prisons or toilets and I certainly have a problem with the high number of adolescents who claim they are transgender (particularly of concern are the proportionally high numbers who are autistic.) There's been some relevant literature in social contagion and I'd say that's definitely a factor in a significant number of cases.

I've never argued that. Being a man sexually attracted to a man is in no way the same thing as feeling the need to remove your penis to relieve feelings of distress. You may view it as progress, the point I was making is that saying if the WHO say something that that is infallible and cannot be questioned is quite clearly nonsense as demonstrated by this very issue. It's as valid as someone saying that gender dysphoria is not a mental illness in 2018 and my response being that it can't be discussed because the WHO says it is so that's the end of the matter. Like I said though, even if we accept that it isn't a mental illness, it raises some questions about these other disorders and how they differ from gender dysphoria to the extent that they are considered mental illnesses and gender dysphoria isn't. Egg says there are key differences and I'd genuinely be interested in hearing what they are.

I know it's hard to do on the Internet but @eggis an intelligent chap. I think if he's honest with himself he could admit that there's some holes in logic here. I totally understand the view that says that's the position of the WHO that it changed to five years ago and that's the end of the matter but it does throw up some questions - some of which are posted above that are not easily answered if we are to accept the WHO position. I mean five years ago you could have said "the WHO says its a mental illness so end of discussion." if we accept their position now then clearly they were wrong before that. Things clearly do change so it is conceivable that they will change again in the future. The WHO aren't infallible as proven by the fact that they categorised it as a mental illness very recently.

Absolutely. Next year will be much harder with no Downes Kwp Sulemana THB And that's best case scenario where none of the others leave.

That's not the question I asked in that post. If you have gender dysphoria to such an acute degree that you believe it is only relieved by an operation to remove your penis, do you have a mental illness?

I'd be interested to hear what you believe the clear differences are.

Is there a name then for people with gender dysphoria who then push ahead with an operation to have their penis removed? Do you accept that this category of gender dysphoric people have a mental illness?

I accept that's your position but with respect that isn't answering either of the questions I posted above. On the face of it you must admit that there really is little difference between the conditions I posted above and gender dysphoria. Let's not forget that it was reclassified as not a mental illness just five years ago following intense political pressure and lobbying from groups that no longer wanted to be called mentally ill. I'd argue that if we accept that gender dysphoria is not a mental illness that we must also accept that body integrity identity disorder is similarly not a mental illness since it's essentially the same thing for those who feel the need to remove body parts.

So having gender dysphoria is only a mental illness if it affects you to the extent that you need to remove your genitals?

So having an intense desire to cut your arm off isn't a mental illness if you don't act on those feelings? What about if you have voices in your head telling you to kill someone? If you don't act on it it's not a mental illness?

So phantom limb syndrome - an overwhelming desire to adapt the body to a perceived mental illness. This disphoria sometimes culminates in individuals trying to chop of the limb they don't believe to be theirs in order to make thenselves feel better. Clearly a mental illness and these people should be saved from themselves. Body integrity identity disorder (biid) an overwhelming desire to adapt the body to a perceived mental image. This strong disphoria sometimes culminates in individuals intentionally making themselves blind to remove their distress. Clearly a mental illness and these people should be saved from themselves. Gender disphoria. An overwhelming desire to adapt your presentation to a perceived mental image. This disphoria sometimes culminates in individuals intentionally removing their genitals in order to remove their distress. Clearly not a mental illness and these people should be allowed to go ahead with gender surgeries, leading to lifelong medicalisation, necrosis, premature aging, increased risk of cancers and having to dilate with a dildo due to the wound where their penis used to be continually trying to close itself up. Make it make sense.

That's very sad to hear. I have a family friend who suffered in a similar manner though she did manage to recover. The answer is of course that it is a mental disorder. Like you say, they view themselves as fat which is at odds with reality. I'd genuinely be interested in reading a medical study that explains why that is different from someone believing they are a woman which is similarly at odds with reality. I get that some people don't actually believe they are really a man or a woman or vice versa, they just feel better presenting as the other sex so I can sort of see that argument for suggesting it's not a mental condition. Many people do though actually believe they are a man trapped in a woman's body or a woman trapped in a man's body. In that circumstance I can't see how someone can seriously argue there is any substantial difference between anorexia or something like phantom limb syndrome where someone claims to feel more comfortable with a limb chopped off.