hypochondriac

As far as I am aware it was never the policy to investigate non crime hate incidents, as evidenced by the fact that loads of people had/have files written on them that they know nothing about until they put a request in. Graham linehan wasn't bring investigated for a NCHI he was being investigated for substantive offences. The main issue is the recording of them since they show up on enhanced dbs checks and can adversely affect your ability to get a job through no fault of your own.

Lisa Nandy highlighting that this decision was taken "in no small part because of the risk posed to them because they support an Israeli team and because they are Jewish." Also points out that an entire away support hasn't been banned in this manner in over 25 years. I would suggest that a member of the government would know a bit more about the reasons for the ban than the people on here.

What change? They were never investigated and they've said they will still record them.

No? You said yourself that it wasn't the only reason.

But we know that isn't the only reason they've been banned.

Indeed. Lets say hypothetically Wolves and West Ham are two of the teams who go down. It would be incredibly difficult to compete with the likes of them, particularly when we will be losing Charles, probably Downes, maybe Robinson. We want to be pushing for promotion ASAP. Having a year to build is something people say in hindsight after you've done a Leeds and it's all worked out. It doesn't always work like that. Had Leeds not gone up last year they would be fucked.

That certainly doesn't sound like the type of hooliganism that would reasonably result in a blanket ban of away fans. I haven't looked into it tbf.

No one has argued that there isn't a hooligan element within their fanbase though. I haven't said you aren't allowed to repeat a point that as far as I can see no one has contested, I'm just questioning why you are doing so. "Some see the banning of an islamophobic mob as an anti-Semitic act which it isn't." What people and where? Given that you have accepted yourself that these people haven't been banned for being an "islamophobic mob" how can you know that what you are saying is true? If the police had been explicit that this was the only reason that this group were banned and there was opposition then maybe you'd have a point but that hasn't happened.

I don't consider the putting up of flags to be divisive behaviour. I am sure some people will have done it to cause division but many will be using it to highlight the fact they are proud of their country and that they want to unite around being English which would include being welcoming of those from other nations who subscribe to our values and who recognise the fact that they are guests of this country and behave accordingly. Obviously I can't speak for everyone who does it - I wouldn't do it myself -but if that is the message then I can certainly get on board with that.

I'm not sure why you continue to push this point. You've accepted yourself that the reason to ban them was not solely because they are hooligans. I don't think anyone has expressed opposition to a potential ban if it was solely due to that.

I expect some people have seen some of the division caused in part by people who seemingly hate a lot about this country and want to advertise their opposition to that. Along with some people being racists of course.

Much less united. I don't really care about flags and I'm sure some of the people are doing it because it's their way of saying they want non white people out of the country (though not everyone clearly.) Putting the flags up in my opinion has had very little to do with a feeling of disunity.

Undoubtedly.

I'm not sure why it's relevant. I wasn't objecting to his arrest necessarily, I was objecting to what was in the video.

Good we agree then. The objectionable part is if being Israeli factored into the decision to ban them. I expect that was a factor because they thought they would be at a greater risk walking through an area with a high Muslim population. It sounds like the government may provide the necessary support to ensure that Haifa fans can attend the game with necessary protection to prevent them being attacked. Hopefully they are also reminded about appropriate behaviours from any cohort that wants to cause trouble and those fans that want to attend peacefully to support their team can do so.

I wasn't referring to that. Did you watch the video where the fact he was wearing a star of David was cited as evidence of provocative behaviour?

So we know that anti semitic exists. I'm not sure why you would think it wouldn't be at the very least a factor in the decision to ban these fans. Do you think if it were another Israeli club that didn't have some history of disorder, that some serious consideration wouldn't be given to banning those fans too? If you honest you know that the fact they are fans of an Israeli club potentially coming in big numbers into an area with a large Muslim population has factored into this decision. It's obtuse to pretend this is solely due to disorder from the away club.

We've also had this shocking thing being reported today. Yet people like to pretend there's no heightened risk:

Yes but it's not for the club hierarchy to be swayed by fan reaction, it's about being above that and doing what required for the team. Say what you like about Cortese but do you think he'd give a fuck what the fans think about a decision? Do you think he'd be staying with Still in the current scenario or he'd have allowed us to go into a season woefully weak in key positions?

This performance and result would have been acceptable after two or three games. The problem is we are ten games in with a load of underwhelming performances so it isn't really acceptable. We can't really afford performances like this.

Scienza and Armstrong.

Well that's certainly a team. Glad Manning has been dropped but a back five is very irritating. If we fail to win then 5 at the back is also pointless. Azaz not playing is a damming indictment of our transfer business, arguably fellows also.

Personally I think if you lower yourself to pathetic insults then you've already lost but you do you.

You realise you can just ignore questions if they upset you? The point is you don't cave into terrorism and threats of violence.

Should we ban all depictions of the prophet Muhammed? Banning them would be the most sensible way to stop people getting injured or killed.