hypochondriac

I expect if you can't even use the correct pronoun for your friend then I can see why they would be having mental health difficulties.

As you're probably aware, the WHO had to remove gender dysphoria as a mental illness in 2017 under political pressure from trans activists who didn't want it categorised in such a way. Similarly, the dsm 5 was changed under a similar climate of political pressure where gender dysphoria was introduced and it became about aligning the body with the identity rather than anything to do with a psychological disorder. It's one of those things though that everyone knows to be true and yet refuse to speak the truth for fear of being labelled.

I don't think you should bully trans people. I don't think anyone has suggested that. Not sure what you mean by take the piss though. The Dave Chapelle special for example I found very amusing and I don't believe that was taking the piss in the way you mean.

OK but these decisions have led to instances of assault and gross unfairness like in sports do you can see why people would still be very keen to have this discussion in order to ensure that women are protected.

In some ways the class of 92 culture have ruined united after Fergie left. What that club needed was a clean sweep and some fresh modern ideas. All they've done is look back at the past to try to do a tribute act and it's failed.

It only makes a difference when those same people demand to be treated as a woman in all circumstances (sports, prisons, women's shelters, changing rooms etc etc.)

Not sure what you mean by a narrow issue. Someone has a psychological condition where they look in the mirror and see themselves as much bigger than they actually are. Another person has a psychological condition where they feel like an imposter in their own body and they believe they should be the other sex. In what way are they hugely different? Illness implies a negative connotation. I'd suggest that they are both psychological conditions that need treatment.

But someone is unwell if they identify with a body shape that is different to reality?

It's not the end of the debate though by a long way. Not when you have politicians being unable to tell you the definition of a woman, when there are men raping women in female prisons and when the recent tavistock court case brought to light some of the shocking abuses among children. These decisions have real life consequences.

Not necessarily unwell but certainly they have a medical need that needs addressing. Why is believing you are a woman when you are biologically male and as a consequence mutilating your body by inverting your penis to create a wound that never heals and that you have to stick a dildo in regularly to prevent the wound from closing different from someone believing they are fat and as a consequence starving themselves? How is being female and believing you are a man to the degree that you bind your breasts and ultimately slice them off not comparable to something like phantom limb syndrome where you believe that your arm doesn't belong to you so you try to chop it off in order to feel happier? Of course experiencing gender dysphoria is a psychological disorder. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be treated with respect and sensitivity but it does mean that it should be recognised for the serious issue that it is. Being gay isn't the same thing since you're harming no one by being gay and it doesn't require mutilating surgery or harmful drugs in some instances.

What about those who believe they were "born into the wrong body" but over time regret their transition and decide to detransition because they were actually just a lesbian all along and thought that trying to change their gender was the answer? You aren't born into the wrong body. You may have psychological issues that make you feel more content to present yourself as male or female but your body was never wrong. Part of the problem is young people being told that if they hate themselves or feel awkward in their own skin that transitioning is the answer. We don't tell someone suffering from anorexia that they were born in the wrong body, we give them the help they obviously require to accept themselves as they are.

Unless you believe in a God, you're not really given a body, it's just who you are rather like if you're ginger, fair skinned, blue eyed etc. Some people may feel more comfortable presenting as the opposite sex and they should be given the same respect as everyone else but every cell in their body doesn't actually change. If you're a biological male then you're still a biological male even if you feel more comfortable living your life looking and acting like a woman. Big respect to those people by the way, it must be very difficult to live your life in that manner and from what I've seen and heard some do express real frustration and a certain level of despair when they realise that they can never truly change to the degree that would satisfy them. I obviously can't know all transgender people but the few that I have spoken to mostly just want to be left alone to get on with living their lives in a quiet and dignified manner. It's the loudest and the most controversial people who tarnish the reputation for all and cause worry and upset to those I have spoken to.

But a trans man is still a biological woman which is the whole point.

I think the point about cervixes is a valid point. If we can't utter basic truths like the fact that everyone with a cervix is a woman then it leads down a dangerous road where sexual assault statistics are obscured by women raping other women with their female penises. What was your thoughts on the recent Dave Chapelle comedy special? Should it be banned?

Indeed. Quite possible that the mental issues that cause dysphoria also make you more susceptible to suicidal ideation. Would be interesting to see some research.

How did she become a man? (also surely it's he?) What did you think about Dave chapelle's latest special?

Surely Ole should do the honourable thing and resign?

This is a complex subject and it isn't as simple as pointing to suicide statistics and telling people to be kind. Firstly gender dysphoria is a mental health condition like any other and anyone with it deserves support and treatment in order to reduce the distress they would probably feel. There isn't some assigned gender though, there's simply male and female and it's obvious which one of those you are based on your genitalia when you are born bar a tiny minority who have a physical disorder. I believe that anyone is free to identify and to present in any manner that they choose and would support them to do so if it makes them happier, providing that they aren't breaking any laws or encroaching on the freedoms or protections afforded to others. I have however read though the statements from a number of post transitioners expressing regret about what they have done to themselves so I would be erring on the side of caution when it comes to irreversible surgeries or drugs (particularly puberty blockers. The evidence that came out from the Tavistock clinic recently for example was absolutely shocking and should really give anyone pause for supporting places of this kind. Just like we wouldn't affirm an anorexic who looks in the mirror and sees a fat person, I think there's a real danger that in the rush to be inclusive, our society is pushing through some things that will be looked back on with horror in future decades. One example is that the government is now advising the police to report the sex of a criminal rather than their gender since sexual assaults committed by supposed women have seen spikes in crime stats because police forces were recording all crimes committed by self identified women even if these people were biologically males. Mutilation in the form of surgeries and big law changes around self ID and women's spaces are the kind of things that we should never rush through without proper thought and serious consideration and the increasing likelihood of some transgender individual killing themselves should not change that- as tragic as that would be.

What I don't understand about gender self ID is that surely even those who support it would agree that a law like that could increase the chances that some sicko could simply self identify as female and then gain access to any number of women only spaces and be legally entitled to do so. That doesn't mean that all those with gender dysphoria are like that but it does mean that the system is open to abuse.

I suspect its people looking at things in the longer term. Whatever happens, tino will probably move on and quite possibly next season. Kwp was possibly our best player last year so to tick him off in order to accommodate someone who is here most likely for a season is a bit of a shame. Personally I'd have tino rm anyway.

I already explained. Because there's a spate of footballers employing pr agencies to tweet on their behalf. It was a point highlighted by Gary Neville a few weeks ago and there was a BBC article about it if you were actually interested.

It is a nice tweet but I'm always a bit wary of sporting tweets now given they all have pr agencies tweeting on their behalf. Quite possible that he had nothing to do with that message.

Yep and when last asked for proof on this forum one comment was found after his second game.

Well that is just delicious. I'm very much a Paul Cook fan now.

I agree and I said it was a minority earlier in this thread. The fact there is a really serious problem with Islamic extremism that is a massively bigger problem than any other religion or type of terrorism really is something that needs a public airing though. That would include the links you allude to but also about mosques and their role in fermenting some of these backwards views. It does appear that some in the media but also in the wider public are very happy to openly discuss the problem of white supremacy after a killing but baulk at discussing the real problems after a killing inspired by Islamic extremism. Rather like the rape gangs, this issue won't begin to be combated in any meaningful way until there is a sensible and adult conversation (prevent is clearly an absolute joke at this point.)