NickG

Showing lack of understanding the situation and how well we have done again young man I will explain the differences for you so you can be more cheery about how saints are doing and less cynical and miserable... Tan came in (2010) Cardiff were 4th in championship. They were not in administration. Year later he took them to....4th! A year later down to 6th! (Not much success so far!) A year later 1st Half year later 15th in prem. So in those 3 ½ season they have climbed 9 places. When Cortese / Liebherr came in we were in administration. We were 24th in league one. A year later we were 5th A year later we were 2nd in league 1 A year later we were 2nd in champ A year later we were 14th in prem ½ year later we are 9th. So each full year we have progressed more than Tan has in total. So don't think fans anywhere will see his success as in same league as our owners Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

But that's assuming the perceived gamble pays off...and we win the cup. It's subjective but, for example, going out of cup when we did and finishing 9th, would benefit growth of club more than losing a league cup final or maybe even winning it. As said before I would love a cup final but can see the logic of resting first team players. Not sure what you mean about fans going along with it? Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

Loads of examples of teams progressing then plummeting (Newcastle last few seasons) when aiming for steady improvement. So you are right we are not locked into a journey. But my take on NC is that he is likely to see good cup runs as more important & likely after establishing us as regulars in the top half of prem. He won't see it as fanciful.

Its not that black and white though us it? A stronger side would not guarantee winning a cup (odds still would have been against us making the final even if we had beaten Sunderland). Neither does resting players guarantee a higher league position. But if concentrating on the league resulted in a higher final position (no way of knowing) it also keeps the club progressing - raising money & status, which improve chances of future cup runs. I would love a cup final day out (even a Zenith Data or JPT!) and if NC reaches his target and we become established as top 8, 6, 4 side hopefully I will get more. Heart is wants the cups given a higher priority but head knows league (even the difference of few places) more important in long term

Reason we didn't press as much against Villa - pressing is to get possession, Villa didn't have any! Three defeats going into tough game with players missing is a test fro confidence . But... We went into arsenal game with chance to go top. After game Martin Kewoen said felt arsenal were lucky. Half time at Chelsea all reports saying leading and deservedly so. We've lost our best, and most influential player (ms). With injuries to Boruc, Clyne, Fonts, Wanyama, Schbeiderlin we still managed the most one sided game if season (radio 5 reports) somehow we lost... Hopefully grind something out today, goal from GR?? Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

Not sure how two bone injuries in games are due to over training??? Maybe there are negatives of MP's methods....the alternative? Easier training / less pressing? Wonder where we would be? People moan that GR is waste of money as is parasite, feel sorry for Cork and suggest he leaves...how many quality players can saints keep happy in squad just in case injury crisis? MS is immense for us, ability, work rate, reliability, awareness etc...Cork, Davis etc good players but big step down. Don't think Villa would have had look in (well hardly did!) If either VW or MS were there. If Fonte is recovered we still compare with last season - lost Boruc / MS but added Lovren, Osvaldo plus JayRod, Lallana improved. Is Clyne definitely out? Chambers kept him out of side so will be missed but not disaster. Man C if perform can beat whoever we put out.. But still chance with this team but less hopeful Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

We had the highest possession for any team in any prem game this season. They had three shots on target, JayRod had 4 (6 total) and Osvaldo had 3 (4 total). Delph was their best passer but all our players each had more than him. 6 times more successful passes! We had injuries to many of our best players this season - Boruc Schneiderlin Wanyama Clyne Fonte ( knock & not fit for 90 -mp) Five of our first choice back 7. Maybe not surprising gave soft goals away? Important not to over react , every neutral can see bit of freak result. In some ways with 5 of back 7 not fit including both CM surprising how well we played - can you imagine previous seasons? Our organisation / system works so well because of MS and VW, MS is one of best midfielders in prem IMHO. Cork is decent but huge step down. Gutted as should have been 3 points and now pressure increases. Can't help wondering whether different type of attacking player is needed for teams like Villa, West Ham who we over run. Maybe Ramirez or a more direct quick forward (what we hoped Mayuka was). Don't think anything wrong with tactics. Lambert didn't plan on being over run and getting lucky / taking advantage of mistakes / injuries. He did have quick players trying to break directly, but not rocket science just all they could do. Finally, those moaning about MS's interview giving too much away - coach at my son's under 10 team had already described our method to the boys with that sort of detail so no secrets to even amateur coaches watching!

Is it just the 14 year olds and trolling *****s who still pay for this ? The boring infantile posts of Barry, Glasgow, persaint etc prevent reading of any thread now. Would have thought falling membership would have encouraged moderating. Wish they would take their shared brain cell out for a day & pluck up courage to speak to real person! Home now and frustration easing. Not terrible performance but felt like points thrown away. My observations; The closing down system didn't seem as balanced & organised without MS. MS huge loss, one of best CM in country, Cork is decent but miles behind MS in all aspects of play. MS / VW partnership big loss Osvaldo is very good player but looks like putting too much pressure on himself. Rushing shots, passing too firmly. His movement & technical ability is very good. Our best players this season - 1) Lovren 2) MS, 3), Clyne 4), Lallana -5) VW 6) Boruc. - missing 4 out of 6 of our best players and ridiculously dominating shows not panic time. One of those days, still good start & still will be excellent season Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

Deliberately so. His corners and free kicks at times were appalling . some games central to play, looking for ball, likes of clyne looking for him then next game may disappear. But all I said is true and shows how irrational slagging them off is. Also think the personal insults show total lack of respect for a man based on fact that JWP is playing so well & keeping him out of the side. Says more about character of those insulting him than GR. Glad agree that post is accurate now added the balance for you Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

Baz / alps don't really believe what they say, clearly enjoying the sport. Really think two players with international caps for decent sides are crap footballers? Really not noticed that majority of foreign players don't hit ground running? Really think Ramirez, with decent goals / assists / freekicks won last season was appalling? Really not understand that being in hospital with serious leg injury effects season? Really not understand that we paid around £10m not £80m for world stars? Not believe Lambert saying GR great to play with as has best vision in club? Think, cos South American & not in team then lazy without fight? WBA we were crap, GR came on grabbed hold of game did more in short time than rest out together... Then got too involved! There is racist labeling, Carlos kickabout, parasites etc. Not as bad as that parasite Cork who has done less this season ( oh he's ok as English and not a big fee!) Remember Alps also wrote off; Lallana Schneiderlin (French so light weight lazy lol) Jay Rod (why ffs have we signed him....12 months before wearing England shirt!) Also now rates sharp higher then Osvaldo! They can't believe what they type.

The fact that we had two of the hardest games in a row makes it hard to judge where we are..if the Hull game had fallen between I would have been more relaxed about these results. Everything you hear about MP (attention to detail, hours he puts in, increased time team have training / being briefed) makes me think he is unlikely to be arrogantly sat back thinking we were perfect and all refs fault. Not heard interview but.. [*]I made a technical decision to choose Dani over Rickie [*]It is my decision and I am the manager [*]I am responsible Sound like he does look at himself and take responsibility Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

Well put Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

Reality we are found little short away to Chelsea and Arsenal but with over ⅓ of season we are better than Man U and Spurs and only 3 points behind Man C (but about to play them at home) ? Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

Can't argue with any of that except last bit. He hasn't performed only compared to expectation levels. If he was young English player without the high fee baggage he would be seen as skilful squad player who had some decent performances, scored a few, few assists and willing to receive the ball to run or make something happen, made other goals by winning free kicks. As pricey Latin american he gets personal abuse. (Lesson from recent cricket events? Not aimed at you tom) Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

Think even if Wanyama or Morgan are injured Cork will struggle to get in the team. I think JWP would be used there first, possibly Davis. Interesting how people feel sorry for Cork and yet Ramirez is a waster for not getting in side (although Ramirez used more). Their biggest problem, which isn't their fault, is amazing development of JWP. People comment on weakness of squad at same time not happy that players like these two are not playing?? Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

Sorry don't really get your point. Maybe I didn't make it clear, unless arguing for sake of it Take Southampton out of it and think you will see my point. I don't care about this list of notional biggest clubs. I don't think professional sportsman / managers do either. It is where a club is, at any given moment, or where they are going to be next season, and less so over next few years. Imagine back at beginning of season, a player choosing a new club there are loads of examples of where the more appealing option would be what you deem a smaller club. Swansea, club on up, European Football, well thought of manager / set up - easier to attract players than, for example Villa. Hull, Palace, Cardiff v Leeds , Middleborough Cherries v sheff U, Coventry, wolves etc. Players won't turn down more money, profile etc in championship to play in league 1 because it's big club. If a new team, with crowds of 30k, got into champions league, had investment to take them on etc were looking at players/ managers. And spurs, for example had finished 8th. There us no way spurs remain automatic choice because they are deemed big/ did well in past etc. Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

So you disagree with me? If we were qualified for champions league, had stable progressive ambitious set up, offered higher wages etc players would turn us down in favour of a lower finishing club, not playing in Europe , because some bigger club formula? Think you are looking at it with emotional fan eyes thinking club are inferior, not cold selfish professional sportsman.

As if 'how big' spurs are viewed by some boys on a message board has anything to do with a managers club choice! Lol. Salary, chance to progress, location, relationship with chairman, facilities - yes. If we finish above spurs get into Europe at their expense, keep manager / young players etc then even if they are massive and we are tiny (with their 4k higher gate or whatever it is!) We will be bigger draw Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

I think the way club has been talking this season - talk of top 2, champions league etc suggests, to me, that NC would have been aiming for 6th without those signings. There's no way the club will be aiming for 7th at Christmas, why would they? We will be aiming to improve. The OP asked for position at Christmas, not end of season. Read my post - it starts saying quick look at fixtures trying to be pessimistic - that came up with 6th. Before the season started, I guessed season finish of 8th / 9th. I wasn't expecting to be above Man U after ⅓ of the season and going into Arsenal game playing for top. I don't know where we will finish, anywhere from champion league spot to 10th has reasonable odds. It will bore everyone if we go over old ground but briefly, so you understand my view; End of last season we knew squad would change but couldn't judge unknown signings, therefore I was commenting, hypothetically, on this season using a baseline of existing squad. There were two separate comments, 1) what NC would be aiming for (6th) 2) how I thought that squad would do (8th/9th). Just a view, don't mind that yours was different, we will never know. All we do know is club are being more open minded and don't think its deluded to think we can overtake Everton, or we are light years behind them.

Is this made up? I've not seen any reports or any commentator saying we are gutless upfront. I've seen loads saying three of our forwards deservedly got places in the England team. I have not seen or heard one report predicting this current squad will finish outside of the top ten. Where are these? Who has said that we need to invest to have serious hope of top 10? I suspect you have made it up. Express - If Southampton were mortified by the way they conceded, it didn’t show in their play. Far from being knocked out of their stride, they continued to have the majority of possession and the quality of their play was a delight to watch. Their two England debutants both nearly scored before half-time. Adam Lallana had a dipping volley tipped over the bar, while Jay Rodriguez saw his shot scooped clear by Arsenal keeper Wojiech Szczesny. The best move of the match came in the 52nd minute, a kaleidoscope of quick, clever passes with Rickie Lambert heavily involved. It ended with Lallana striking a fierce shot too close to Szczesny. Southampton were asking serious questions of Arsenal. This may have been a surprise ‘top-of-the-table’ clash, but there was quality on show. Arsene Wenger "I'm very happy because we were against a good team and they showed why they made good results before. "They are a good team and if they had won today they would have been level with us at the top of the league, so that shows how good they are. "We couldn't take our chances but we took advantage of their mistakes. It's a very good win." Guardian Southampton flew into action after half-time, playing with the zest and determination that has taken them so far up the Premier League table. Arsenal showed the defensive focus, though, to ensure the visitors' efforts were not easily turned into clear chances. A Rickie Lambert shot was blocked, and Rodriguez's lung-busting run halted, before Szczesny was called upon. Southampton played well, but paid the price for two critical errors. They want to move on. Arsenal are not in the mood to look over their shoulders. Mail - an excellent Southampton side. , the quality and industry of their front four in Rickie Lambert, Jay Rodriguez, Adam Lallana and James Ward-Prowse is something to behold. Rodriguez had struggled on his England debut a week ago, not so here. He refused to concede any cause as lost. Telegraph Southampton will take away much of which to be proud in what is shaping up to be a remarkable campaign for the south coast club. there was never any likelihood of another disintegration. They even enjoyed the majority of possession, had more shots and won more corners against Wenger’s table-toppers, who could not breath easy until the final few minutes. struggling to find these reports just loads saying how good we are, how we are contending at the top and how great our forwards our (plus a decent Italian on the bench!) some weird posts here lately?? People say we need to sign top players and then moan that Ramirez and Osvaldo are not in the team. I wonder if Alpine etc feel the same dislike for Cork as they aim at Ramirez due to his lack of involvement (as Cork has played even less)

maybe 6th, but tight between several sides. Think will be are safely in top 9. Had a very quick look through the fixtures - I tried to be pessimistic with others being consistent but still had us only 5 points off champions league spots. Was only quick run through and may have been too pessimistic and may have given two top teams the points when they play each other. Reckon something like this... 1 Arsenal 36 2 Chelsea 36 3 Man C 35 4 Liverpool 34 5 Man U 32 6 Saints 29 7 Everton 29 8 Newcastle 29 9 Spurs 28 10 Swansea 22 12 WBA 21 13 Villa 20 14 Hull 17 15 Stoke 17 16 Cardiff 17 Sure MP and NC are aiming higher...they are not embarrassed to aim for top four and wouldn't call anyone deluded for thinking its possible!

We are playing Arsenal - if we win by 2, not only our GD improves by two, theirs gets 2 worse!

Guess he must be on a wind up... Three years ago we were towards bottom league one now third, done by club who don't give a ****, with players (Schneiderlin, JayRod, Lallana ) he didn't want and a summer transfer policy of a bunch of amateurs. Still reckon should have given up on promotion from league 1 and saved ourselves for play offs!

(Sorry accidentally sent!) Ramirez - no-one who has seen him can deny he is a good player and offers us attacking running / passing we sometimes lack. No-one can say that he has lived up to expectations yet ( some IMHO ignorantly high due to lack of understanding transfer fees and nationality stereotyping). Figures showed (see my post with goals / assists per minute) that he did ok last season and is still a young player. Its ridiculous to hear Alpine criticise him for not playing & collecting wages - when playing more than Cork for example). His biggest problem is the amazing form of Ward-Prowse, Lallana and JayRod. You have to wonder how he will fit in to current style but its so short sighted that it's humorous to read people moaning about lack of depth then moaning that its wasteful having quality players not playing. We may drop down now, but Shearer was on the radio saying we are playing best football, most consistent with youngest squad and could win the league - although most likely usual top 4 will rise in time. So, god knows what we need but think we are at stage when all realise NC isn't amateur and knows what he is doing ! Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

People saying we 'need' certain additions probably include people who said we needed to add to the squad in the summer to achieve mid-table! One thing the club have shown is that they ignore limitations set from outside, while Turkish was saying they would be deluded to target 6-8th - the club target the very top. It makes it really hard to say what we 'need'. You can worry about how we will do if Lovren or Boruc are injured - but not uncommon for CB and keeper to last the season. The front five are pretty interchangeable and I think we have good depth - Lambert, Lallana, Ward-Prowse, Osvaldo, Ramirez, Davis, Ramirez, Rodriguez - reckon a couple of injuries could be unnoticeable. Morgan and Wanyama are covered by Ward-Prowse, Davis and Cork. I was surprised to see Fox against Swansea as MP had said previously that Clyne is back up LB with Chambers right. DZ