derry

Thanks for the link. Not covered in UK. Should have been obligatory viewing. A real soul searching program. I watched it all the way through.

Lifelong Saint ? Still on here under another name. Weston Saint reads on here but rarely posts. Watching now most games from corporate.

We're like Jekyll and Hyde. We play away, high tempo, fierce pressing, get the ball forward quickly and use our pace to pull opponents apart. At home, we had 59% possession for the God knows how many times achieved by passing sideways and backwards, worse once Armstrong went off. The two centre backs plus JWP and PEH were the culprits yet again. That allowed us to slowly work our way into Spurs half pull ourselves out of shape then expose ourselves to quick counters. It was obvious the Spurs by dropping off was sucking us in. We have to stop falling for it and just quickly pass the ball up to the forwards as we do away, cut out the false possession which only succeeds in eventually leaving ourselves short at the back. midfield out of position and the full backs pushed up. We have to set the agenda by playing at home the same way we play away. Just cut out the possession at the back and we are half way there.

That was a cracking result. Lovely to see shots either going in or having to be saved rather than going over the top. We need that regularly as it will probably be noted and teams will be more wary of backing off leaving space behind to exploit. That was the way to increase possession statistic by playing in the opponents half, quick passing, decisive running, high tempo and pressing in numbers. Only Vestergaard was still playing square balls to Stephens in our half. Old habits etc. Stephens was hopeless defending in the second half against Wolves but stepped it up last night and led the way with his penetrating through balls to the front runners. Passing around our own half is a waste of time. I have come to the concusion that possession/passes should only be measured into the opponents half and in the opponents half. that would be a much better reflection on the game. We could play that game against any sitting side at SMS, Palace were quite defensive and we pulled them apart because of the speed of our play. Dispensing with the passing around the back five often instigated by little pass outs from Macarthy has paid dividends. The keeper kicking often puts the ball into danger areas that troubles defenders and eliminates defensive problems for us.

I'd noticed previously that we got our best results with our possession in the forties because we played less passes and more direct. In the first half we had 49% possession/passes and two goals up. In the second half we played more passing, slowed our game down and were fairly easily held by Wolves. The interesting thing to me was that in the second half we had 57% of the possession and conceded three goals. Wolves played more direct pulled us onto them as we passed our way forward and hit their frontmen missing out our midfield and exposed our centre backs and the full backs struggling to get back. We were playing short and relatively short from the back and lost to the Wolves press up front. In the second half we were back into the old problems playing at home. We paid the price of a high line and Kamikaze defending. Just before Wolves goal Stephens pretty much summed it up, under no pressure he had the ball, instead of hitting deep into the Wolves back line he chipped it into midfield where it was gobbled up by Wolves, a quick counter attack and it's in our net completely changing the game. There was no leadership or awareness on the field and none from the management. We don't need possession to win matches. the more we have the more vulnerable we are. Wolves held tight and hit us directly. If we had continued to put the ball up front quickly the defence wouldn't have been exposed. It was trying to play passing football that exposed us. We have to cut this out and stay direct.

The optimum possession is around 40%, more than that and we are just shovelling the ball around our own half in slow motion, neutralising our attackers and leaving ourselves wide open to making mistakes and being counter attacked. At home at times we have been up close to 70% possession with the predictable lack of shots, attacks and penetration. When we get the ball forward quickly it doesn't matter if we lose it as we press hard to get it back. We had double the shots of Leicester and could have had half a dozen goals with 42% possession. Leicester managed 58% and had five shots and two corners. I rest my case. We now have to cut our possession at home even against sides just defending. That means constant attacking just putting the ball down the channels or breaking the lines by Armstrong, Hojbjerg, Redmond etc as we did against Leicester and exposing the back four quickly. Definitely no interplay amongst the back five. When they get the ball it is probably in that instant that the opponents aren't consolidated so it is vital not to delay stick it into the channels for our pressers to get it or win it.

This is the problem. Players, Ex players/pundits, Managers, Officials have been indoctrinated with the unwillingness of top managers, sides etc to accept correct decisions and constantly bleating aided and abetted by the media. I personally like the discipline in Rugby. We need a season of draconian punishments and long suspensions for dissent and questioning decisions to be stamped out. Never mind VAR, how much time is used up by players arguing with officials. The pillocks even wear Respect labels on their shirts. The game in a lot of senses is a disgrace if one adds obvious cheating and feigning injury to the above. As it stands with VAR the Doucoure goal for Watford wouln't have happened and Austins disallowed goal the following season would have counted. Both bad decisions cost us a win.

60 years ago players knew that running in allowed the highest jump. Nowadays players just stand in the goal area and never get off the ground. The odd one moves and invariably wins the ball.

I saw that, Spurs first goal last night, Gunn a couple of times dithering, Bertrand against Everton, quite a few other occasions, backpasses without looking, dithering in possession, trying to play or dribble out of trouble. Firstly stop the mentality of playing in own defensive zone. Secondly under pressure don't just kick it out, stick it as far up the stand as possible. Thirdly under pressure don't hesitate smash it up the field out of danger. We need all the players to grow a calculating, ruthless mentality.

In the picture hovering on the edge of the 6yd line, Derek Reeves and George O'Brien, no wonder they scored about 60 goals between them. Well over 100 overall for the team. Regularly scored over a hundred goals in those halcyon days.

One of my favourite players. I often thought Ted didn't give him a fair crack because when he did he always looked a good player. I was in the Milton boxes the day he scored a header from just inside the penalty area. Ted brought in Gordon Brown a player from Derby to allegedly clinch promotion at inside left, he was rubbish and Brian was restored for the run in delivering vital goals. He was very good in the air and not bad on the ground and a good tackler. I thought he looked a lot taller than the 5' 11" he is reported to be. After leaving Saints he had a good career at Grimsby. I was sorry to see him leave. There is a very good obituary on the official site. RIP Brian you are fondly remembered.

Possession in itself is a false situation as it's what the team is doing with the possession and how many goals, shots, corners etc are produced. Really only Man City use possession to mount waves of attacks and pull teams apart. Top sides against bottom sides mostly works but a stubborn eleven defending deep can stymie all but the best teams. Since I've taken this view I've been appalled at the number of goals i've noticed being conceded by teams playing out short from the goalkeeper when making a poor pass, getting caught in possession or on a break having lost the ball on the halfway line after multple passes. Cut this out and you're well on the way to a clean sheet and a lot less vulnerable to counter attack. I now think Hasnhuttl has it nailed. Reduce the possession in our half and pass forward/break the midfield line quickly and go at the last defenders. McCarthy still isn't completely getting it but is getting there. Cutting out the possession in our own half needs the keeper to maintain a high percentage of kicking into the channels or to the wings rather than feeding the back four and often then having to clear himself. It's also better for the back four to put the ball into the channels immediately for the forwards to hunt down rather than start the possession round robin again by passing back to the keeper who often has to clear it from further back.. Such as Stephens to Ings against Spurs or Adams through to Ings against Leicester after a quick one two. Playing like this encourages our multiple pressing and high tempo. I'm not advocating a route one game but going more direct from the back and midfield and reducing the slow sterility and errors that occur at the back as a result of trying to keep the possession. For example Yoshida and Vestergaard completely neutered us against Huddersfield in the Cup just passing to each other and going nowhere.

Ron Davies would win every ball he went for because he wouldn't be standing around in the goal area, he starts his run to intercept the ball with his best jump. I have never seen anybody ever get as high as him. I watched Matt's 100 goals on TV this afternoon, he wouldn't have any bother either.

Possession is calculated by an automated system based directly on the number of passes made by each team when divided by the total passes gives the possession percentage for each team. Therefore in Saints case against Leicester, Saints made 42% of the total passes of which 52% were accurate. The 21% was the Saints accuracy percentage of all the passes made in the game, on reflection a meaningless figure. More of an indication of how successful we were pressing Leicester and how attacking our football was. On the other hand Leicester had 58% possession/passes, I think about 70% accuracy producing 5 shots and 2 corners. On the other hand we had 16 shots, 4 corners and twice the fouls. Really showing that possession with most teams isn't the best way to win matches. Our best results have come away with about 40% possession/passes. While at home we struggle, with our possession/passing up towards 70%, mostly in our half, and in some matches not even having a shot. I'm advocating at home dispensing with the aimless passing around and get the ball up front as quickly as possible just as we play away, even if we aren't that accurate and press to hunt down the breaking balls. If teams are sitting back, ignore it and just get the ball into their last third quickly, missing out their midfield and press the back line. Just don't pass it around in our half it doesn't achieve anything. Keep a solid base at the back to outnumber any break as we did against Leicester. The high tempo pressing combined with less passing is the key at home as well as away. Since Puel we have had high possession/passing figures without winning many matches at home.

You've lost me. I'm only considering our 52% of 42% possession. Good job football isn't about mathematics.

The channels are still there, putting the ball in quickly will mean a lot of balls breaking and it's up to the forwards to press in and win them. Tippy tappy at the back slowing the game down and throttling our supply to the forwards is why we are losing too many at home. Nothing to stop quick breaking from midfield or down the touchline as well. The important thing is the high tempo.

The possession figure 42% is around our optimum for winning games. With the other statistics, result, goals, shots etc it indicates more attacking less aimless possession which slows down and bogs down our attacking. The 52% I am using to demonstrate we don't need to have a high pass completion. We just need to win the ball and harrass the defenders into errors. It is what we are doing now getting the ball up front quickly and counter attacking quickly if we win the ball in our own half. I'm actually saying let the back four gamble,conserve energy, hit the channels instead of slow build ups, and then press hard, win it back in the opponents defensive zone. It works away, now play the same way at home. I don't want to see McCarthy rolling the ball out to the back four then twenty passes later under pressure punt it downfield.

OK if you insist, 21% of overall possession found a home.

I should have said 21% of our possession found a home although there isn't much of a difference.

At last somebody who gets it.

I keep pointing this out but our optimum possession for playing well and winning games is around 40%. against Leicester not only did we have 42% possession we had 52% passing accuracy so only about 21% of our passes found a home. We had three times the shots, Schmeical made seven saves, one kicked off the line, hit the bar twice. Possession at home just plays into the opposition's hands. Especially just waiting for something to open up in the massed defence ahead. Instead go with the statistics, give up possession, goalkeeper kicks long, defenders hit the channels or midfielders drive forward. Press the opposition for the ball out around their penalty area. Keep a solid defence and close down quickly as we did against Leicester. Especially don't give easy free kicks away inside our own half because that's often where goals come from. It's a different game now, opponents come to defend deep and break, now they are under pressure from knockdowns, breaking balls and nippy forwards causing problems. Under pressure and no longer able to sit back watching us pass it around going nowhere in our own half.

We should be supporting VAR as it is. Basically our defenders are setting up for opponents to break their offside line by holding the line and not retreating with the attackers. It's up to the attackers now to adjust for VAR and not attempt to break the line trying to gain a miniscule advantage. If they stay onside until the ball is kicked no offside. If they are caught out as they will be any goal is disallowed. It's not VAR it's attackers not adjusting for the scrutiny whilst defenders are being drilled in it.

Stopping just aimlessly passing about at the back, reducing possession into the 40% region, higher tempo, hard pressing, pace up front and getting the ball up quickly to them at the same time allowing our defenders to outnumber opponents attackers.

Added to the above. The optimum possession for our attacking game is 40% approximately. Our passing accuracy was 52%, that means that losing the ball up front doesn't hinder because we press to get it back hence the three bookings and 17 fouls. 70% possession mostly happens in our own half. allows opponents to consolidate win the ball and counter exposing our exposed centre backs. My point, Watford today, 44% possession, three goals, high pressing, plenty of fouls, shots etc, Bournemouth overpowered. It's better to get the ball up to the forwards quickly, running at the back four, rather than just pass it around as we were doing before the Arsenal game. The teams tempo is high, pressing is ferocious and teams struggle against it. Better to stick the ball up front even lose it and press it pressuring defenders than have a false possession statistic which unless you are Manchester City is a myth.