derry

Cardiff to Guernsey on Saturday it's reported then presumably positioned to Nantes at some point. The safest way to operate VFR is to work the available radar stations civil and military close to track and any airfields that impinge. London Information purely pass information.

I think that may be flawed. If the aircraft was hired with a crew who were coincidently positioning an empty aircraft to Cardiff and gave a casual passenger a lift that's one thing but specifically hiring a plane and crew to position to Nantes to take a specific passenger to Cardiff it would be almost impossible to legally argue that wasn't a commercial flight. If the Mckay family owned the aircraft and gave Sala a lift to Cardiff with no money changing hands it would be I think ok.

Whatever we think, Ralph is making Valery his first choice right back by default, just because he keeps picking him in preference to Soares. Personally he is nippy on the ground courageous, poor crosser and an absolute liability with the ball in the air against taller players dropping off onto him. Physically we need a stronger right back in the Premier league.

Thanks the 60 rule seems the same. Reported that David Henderson, the original designated pilot was in his sixties. I flew as a Captain after 60 with no problems. There seems to be some very real questions to be resolved pilot wise. I think this is going to turn out to be an absolute bugger's muddle. I just can't see how it was a private flight.

Reported yesterday that Mark McKay was working for Nantes, facilitating the transfer and sourced the aircraft supposedly from Southern Aircraft Consultancy although they don't appear to be an aircraft operator. If the McKay family owned the aircraft and gave Sala a lift to Cardiff it would indeed be a private flight. My opinion for what it's worth is that if the aircraft was hired by the agent with a crew then it had to be commercial. Nobody has yet cast a light on why David Henderson went through the passport check with Sala, then pulled off the flight presumably leaving Ibbotson on his own, with Hobson's choice, **** or get off the pot. I wonder if Henderson filed the flight plan.

That's great, thanks. I was pretty sure things had got more restrictive in time. What about the 60 age limitations?

Looks like the media are catching up. Reporting AAIB investigating the pilot's licence. As he passed an FAA medical recently it looks like he had an FAA PPL however years ago it was quite easy to get an FAA commercial without ratings on production of licence and log book showing at least 250 hours experience. To fly a single, a basic licence was Ok in VFR. The US top licence is an ATR compares to UK/EU ATPL which airline Captains have to have. I believe ab initio pilots do the course, have a CPL which is then automatically upgraded to ATPL after reaching a certain experience level. (I believe it used to be 1200 hours) I'd be happy to be updated on the current criteria. As a US registered aircraft it comes under FAA supervision and FAA licences or maybe exemptions are required to fly it. It looks though that the pilot whilst entitled to carry out the flight privately and fill the aircraft with friends, with only a PPL would not have been allowed to carry a passenger that was paying for the hire of the aircraft or that a third party was hiring the aircraft. It looks like the aircraft was hired with two pilots to carry out the flights. The qualified pilot dropped out and Ibbotson carried on at the last minute. It was quite common on light aircraft commercial flights for a single pilot to fly but a PPL dogsbody flies as extra crew in the right hand seat dealing with passengers, paperwork, radio etc. There maybe also an age question. It used to be that if a pilot was over 60 he could fly a two crew with a pilot under 60. Private flights had no restrictions.

I saw somewhere the reason J Rod had such a long recovery was needing further treatment after getting it infected (superbug ???)

It originally started randomly in the transfer thread and was hived off by the moderator on the day and placed here.

Firstly, I once had the then Coxwain of the Guernsey lifeboat on the cockpit jump seat. I had a long chat with him and was mightily impressed with his professionalism and experience. The scenarios surrounding this accident are getting worse and worse. It is reported that Willie McKay has denied owning the plane but it is understood it was chartered by the McKay family, as his son Mark was acting on behalf of Nantes to take Sala to and from Cardiff. Obscurely when you look for an owner it comes up with a Minnesota chiropractor company???? Even stranger, David Henderson the originally named pilot had completed passport checks with Sala and had been expected to board the flight. Officials at Nantes-Atlantique airport insisted that David Henderson, a highly experienced pilot in his 60s, was set to take the controls of the Piper PA46 Malibu on Monday night. But he pulled out, leaving Mr Ibbotson to fly Sala to Wales. The UK's Air Accidents Investigation Branch said it was investigating the loss of the plane and working with authorities in the US, France and Argentina. This looks extremely strange because the professional pilot pulls out at the last minute and a private pilot looks like he stepped in and took a hire and reward flight when it is possible that he was not properly licenced in both the EU and US.

That sounds familiar. Football agent? In light single engine aircraft I used to wear mine and got anybody in the plane to do the same.

That wasn't the only thing, BEA screwed the pilot. Although both pilots were training captains cleared to fly in either seat the designated captain was acting as the first officer whilst the other Captain was doing the take off from the left seat. He died but the Captain was sacked because he was in the right seat. In later years for operational reasons the company wanted experienced Captains to fly together. I made them rewrite their operations manuals to read that where two Captains were flying together, the pilot occupying the left hand seat was the commander. We decided between ourselves who flew the legs and in preference usually occupied the left (captain's) seat.

Nothing we couldn't cope with due to training and common sense. I passed over Manhattan, a beautiful night on 9/10 I had about five minutes looking at it clear as a bell from 33000 ft. I was passing Port Solent next morning when my wife rang me with the news of the first aircraft. I just assumes it was a lost light aeroplane. I was changing with the Tv on and saw the second plane hit, no doubt then. I flew over the Pentagon quite a few times on my way down to Orlando and the damage was unbelievable. My next trip after 9/11 was a 757 trip to Sharm El Sheikh. I ****ed off the locals by making them pile all the bags outside the aircraft, made the passengers identify their bags before boarding and immediately putting them in the hold. In the end we had two bags not claimed. Never really felt uncomfortable anywhere, including a 36000 nm round the world 26 day trip.

I think this is beginning to look like a massive cluster****. It could run and run.

If he does own this US registered aircraft and the pilot hasn't US licences there is going to be a lot of effluent hitting the oscillator. Furthermore if it's a hired aircraft and private pilot the CAA are going to get involved. There is a massive mess waiting to come out. This one might take some dodging because under the counter deals will become transparent under the sort of scrutiny that this will get from the associated authorities, insurance companies and the media because of the high profile of the £18m player's death.

A football agent's 34 year old US registered single piston engine aircraft hired with a private pilot to fly at low level across the channel at night. What could go wrong? I would think the insurance claims are going to be in some difficulty.

Thanks, I remembered something but I couldn't pin it down.

It's being said that he owns the aircraft. Wasn't he involved with somebody at Saints a while back? Does he live Bournemouth way?

What a mess.

As I understand it the owner has to be US and the pilot FAA rated.

The story takes another big turn. David Henderson the pilot reported to be flying the aircraft has been on Facebook saying he wasn't on the flight. The plane left Cardiff for Guernsey on Saturday. Presumption: on it's way to Nantes. The pilot has been named now as David Ibbotson a gas engineer and private pilot from Lincolnshire. Allegedly he had been hired with the aeroplane to take Sala from Nantes to Cardiff. Private pilots are not allowed to fly for hire and reward. The PPL is the most basic qualification. He has dropped parachutists which he is allowed to do. This sounds like the sort of mess professional pilots are trained to avoid. David Henderson has been quoted saying that this aircraft is susceptible to icing on the airframe and the propeller in icing conditions. the way to get out of icing is to descend into warmer air if that doesn't work the plane will stall. Better still stay out of icing conditions. I can't remember what the upper conditions were but flying higher in clear air would avoid picking up ice. Climbing and descending through icing conditions would mean picking up ice. It might be that as a private pilot the pilot didn't have the ratings to fly IFR on the Airways at higher levels. That would explain the planned low level flight unless the forecast icing was at the higher levels.

A US law apparently.

More is coming out. It appears that although the plane was registered to Southern aircraft consultancy it was owned by Scottish football agent Willie McKay who was involved in the transfer from Nantes. That could then be a private flight. However it is difficult to see how the aircraft registered in the US and consequently has to have a US owner, could be legally used if is owned by Scot unless he is also a US citizen.

It was disgraceful. There was 20 secs left of the four minutes when he stopped the game for Long. That meant to me on resumption 50 secs to play allowing for the goal in injury time irrespective how long the interruption.

The Google link I mentioned is working and another link to the same video just below it. On another subject. In the film he mentions ice and descending to find warmer air. He mentions he has a dinghy. As for ice, the aircraft has de-icing boots whether serviceable is not known. there is also a possibility of intake icing or pitot icing if the heater failed or wasn't switched on. He was a ferry pilot experienced on the North Atlantic and all that it entails. He sounded switched on to the dangers but also commented he didn't think it would happen to him. I've always operated from the other side, be aware of what can happen and be ready for it.