CanadaSaint

It's all very well to want Selles sacked - he certainly deserves to be. But then there's the small matter that his replacement will be hired by the same fuckwits that let the players quit on Ralph (yes, he certainly had shortcomings), hired Jones, replaced him with Selles, and then sat by while Selles gutlessly surrendered without a fucking whimper. The fact that the owner sat through this abject disaster without lifting a finger is sickening. I'm not even seeing a glimmer of hope right now. A shit recipe makes for a shit cake, whether you cook it on the top shelf of the oven, or the second shelf, or ... god forbid.

If you wonder why we’re cellar dwellers Just take a glance at gutless Selles The thing on which I’d bet my house Is no forward pass from James Ward-Prowse We’re perpetually stuck in sideways mode We couldn’t score on Denzil Road To my Saintsweb friends who won’t share a link I owe you all a bloody drink Thank you It is my considered opinion that Ruben Selles is to football management what Donald Trump is to synchronized swimming.

Months of anticipation, 4,200 miles in the air, and 22 travel hours to see a gutless manager pick a side devoid of any discernible structure, a starting lineup without a striker in a “must win” game, an England international who doesn’t know how to pass forward, another England international who doesn’t know how to stay onside and blazes a clear chance almost into orbit, a third England international played on his wrong side so that the loanee played in his position can get done like a kipper on the byline, a Polish international whose main ‘skills’ are ball-watching and playing square or backward passes, an attacking ‘strategy’ that involves giving the opposition as long as possible to get into position before eventually hoofing it straight to them, a prevalence of go-through-the-motions-itis all over the park, hearing the manager telling the fans how to do THEIR job when he doesn’t have a fucking clue how to do his own, having to listen to a bunch of fuckwits from Croydon taking the piss… I could keep going. But the part that pisses me off most is that this bunch of overpaid, underperforming pussies - coaches and management most certainly included - don’t seem unduly perturbed about it. Why would they be? Their ‘loyalty’, unlike ours, is completely transient - shrug it off and get their agents to start looking for another club. Screw all of them.

I think we’re far better when we play more aggressively and move the ball forward faster, angling it through the channels and behind the defence, taking on defenders wide, and so on. Rather than going down limply I’d like to see us go into shit or bust mode much more. Bednarek and ABK will be out for a while, leaving us with two “second choice” CDs, so I don’t see much point in playing conservatively.

First half we were far too slow getting the ball forward, which was inevitable as soon as he inexplicably started Diallo and Elyanoussi. Fucking madness. With those two gone we were much quicker, but then the problem was delivery into the box. And there's no sense putting Tall Paul out there if you're not going to play to his strengths. In the cold light of day the result is going to overshadow the fact that we actually did a fair bit right.

Wet pitch, get the ball forward quickly, angled passes through - or over - the defence, force defenders to turn. Hard to do when you start off with a 30-45 second "you to me, me to you" kickabout at the back and in midfield, and they've got all the time in the world to drop and cover. No midfield with Diallo and Elyanoussi in it will be getting the ball forward quickly. We have the subs to do it, but they should have started.

As I watched us trying to get back into it on Saturday, continually passing the ball across the back while Leeds dropped into their defensive positions, it dawned on me that Selles may well have been one of the biggest problems all along. Having the most touches in your own box is a guaranteed recipe for having the fewest touches in the opposition box. That's not fucking rocket science.

This may be a blessing in disguise. Now we can concentrate on getting relegated.

Watching us fucking around at the back and using Bednarek as the pivot for initiating the transition to attack (🤣) makes me think that Selles might have been one of the problems. Until we play KWP/ABK/Salisu/Perrault, every game will look like this. You could time our transition to attack with a sundial.

I'm hoping that Selles will become a pleasant surprise. We're not going to get the next Pochettino or pull a Koeman out of the hat, and some of the bigger names being floated are unattainable, still trying to transition from successful player to successful manager, or (like Selles) unproven. What could make a big difference in a short space of time is a manager who will a) play with a Back 4, b) select the best players - especially at CD, c) not keep chopping and changing, d) leave out the lightweights, e) press hard up front but avoid getting caught on the break, and f) be well regarded by the players. Selles stood up to Ralph and he stood up to Jones, and I suspect he was voicing the players' feelings as well as his own, so I think he has cred with them. They have to know that, if they bottle it under Selles, the spotlight will fall squarely on them rather than the manager and coaches. He may not be what many are hoping for, but if he can get most of a) - f) right (they're not rocket science), he could unlock this squad's real potential.

Doesn't he have a legal obligation to "mitigate his loss"? Failing to make a reasonable effort to find another job, or unreasonably turning one down, would negatively impact his legal entitlement to severance pay. Having said that, we're talking about a guy with (now) two gigantic shit-splats on his CV, so it might be a while before he gets a chance to turn down any decent football jobs. Unless his contract contains some language that could allow SR to claim "dismissal for cause", they're probably resigned to a major payout. Sickening, really, considering what happens to normal people who screw-up badly at work.

John Herdman. He's a great communicator and has indeed done an excellent job with both the women's and men's national teams. I'm amazed he wasn't snapped up after the World Cup (Canada topped the CONCACAF group containing the U.S. and Mexico), but his contract has now been extended through the 2026 World Cup here in North America. He sees it as "unfinished business". I wouldn't say he's been working with a "crap team" when it contains players like Alphonso Davies (Bayern), Jonathan David (Lille), Tajon Buchanan (Brugge) and Stephen Eustáquio (Porto), although he's got the best out of the "plumbers" who aren't at that level. On a side note, the one to watch is Ismaël Koné, who's just 20; he's a central/defensive midfielder who recently signed for Watford, but I don't think he'll be there long. I've always thought that Herdman would do well in England, and could cut the mustard at PL level. (EDIT: Just saw Ottawa's post - funny how we each see stuff differently, but Herdman cut certainly drop the occasional verbal bollock. 🤣)

Much has (rightly) been said about Jones's failure to use the World Cup break to assess the squad properly, but this failure is really even worse. Rasmus allegedly approached him in the Summer. If Jones thought there was a possibility that he might end up here, his first "Big League" appointment, wouldn't he have watched us closely since then? I know I would. And a lot of our weaknesses were glaringly obvious throughout the last months of Ralph's reign - Bednarek was playing worse than he had ever played with us (two games, benched, loaned out), Theo was a nonentity, Elyounoussi chugged around without doing much, Djenepo was his usual fart in a thunderstorm self, and Diallo was what he's always been - a player with no discernible strengths. And, to top it all off, we experimented with a Back 5, which went down like a fart in church with both the players and the fans, and was quickly ditched. I can only imagine that Jones's towering ego convinced him that, through sheer force of personality, he could turn the same pig's ear into a silk purse. But, as much as it sticks in my craw, I wish him well because my love for Saints is far stronger than my dislike for his abrasive personality and my strong scepticism that he's capable of putting things right.

IIRC there was a smug facial exchange between Semmens and Ralph at the last one, when they were asked about dressing room dissent being leaked to the media. I think Semmens' verbal response was something like "we're addressing that", and two players ended up being marginalized and eventually moved out. Please correct me if I've got that wrong. Not that this situation is the same (we're far from a window and we've just spent a shit-ton on players), but the dissent is clearly there, it's not just two players, the marginalizing seems to be happening, we're now in a much worse league position, and one half of the smug facial exchange is still in the room. There's little cause for optimism in that scenario.

If there's that kind of split in the dressing room I don't see a way out of this that ends up in any turnaround in results. Dressing room splits are normally terminal without some kind of unifying force, which Jones is incapable of being.

It’s starting to look like death by ego – a joint hit by Colonel (thinks he’s) Mustard in the dressing room and Professor Plum in the boardroom. FFS.

Shocked to wake up and see Jones is still here. The Club is fully aware of the toxic fan sentiment and even the negative views of high-profile journalists. That’s two strikes. The third – and arguably most important - strike would be if most of the key players want him gone. It would be crazy - suicidal even - to expect them to bust their balls to save his job on Saturday if they want him out. The ONLY thing that could explain a decision to NOT fire him today is if the majority of key players still support him. SR wouldn’t take a vote but I’m sure they’d ask JWP for some “inside the dressing room” insight. It would be one hell of a gamble to keep him in place, given what Saturday could look like if we lose again.

Two Yesses from me. I voted Yes the first time not because I was happy with the appointment (I certainly wasn't) but because I thought it was a horrible idea to run the poll before he'd even managed a game. I've even argued for a re-set in the vain hope that Jones could change his ways and both sides could lower the temperature, but that's now out of the question. We don't even need to talk about his starting lineups and tactics, as abysmal as they've been. The club now has no option but to fire him because he appears to be almost universally disliked by the players and even his fellow members of the coaching staff. They clearly don't buy his bullshit. In the space of twelve days he has publicly berated Djenepo during the First Leg against Newcastle, been forced to change his formation by his own players in the Second Leg, and sent DCC to the B Team - presumably for not toeing the line. And then there's the post below by Saint Clark from the Jones Out thread. But the clincher was his horrific, unhinged post-game comments today. If I were Rasmus he'd be gone tonight, and Selles would be caretaker-managing. At least he appears to be on the same page as the players, and can hardly do worse.

Absolutely correct. I was appalled to see that. Frankly I don't think that we or Nathan Jones gave a good account of ourselves at the start, and things have gone downhill from there. The irony is that we both want the same thing, so it is in ALL of our interests to get pride, ego and obstinacy out of the way and set things on a better footing. Jones's recent comments about playing a Back 5 and omitting Perraud (to me, the key to a balanced Back 4) - plus the decision to not attend the fan forum - show that he's aware of fan sentiment, which is a start. Relationships sometimes need a re-set, and I think now would be a very good time for everyone to commit to that. But it's going to "take two to tango". Hopefully the Club can do their part to help him curb his abrasive manner and respond to what the fans want to see, but then we must do our part and throttle back the vitriol.

I'm not obsessed with Jones at all Mr. One Post. In fact, I've complained about the fact that there was a poll on here telling him that he wasn't wanted before he had even managed a game. While I certainly had my doubts about his suitability, I was more than willing to give him a chance before deciding. Not too sure who's included in your "rest of us" group, but the one I'm most aware of consists of a large majority who have long supported this club and always will - people who have seen enough of his bizarre lineups and tactics, his propensity for blaming the players when the problem is his system, and his stubborn refusal to see that these are major problems. This isn't about Jones the person but Jones the manager. If the late J. Christ of Bethlehem came here and pulled that stuff, he'd take shit as well. If you want to talk about "weird", I'd venture to suggest that the word applies more to new posters who suddenly appear on here to defend the indefensible. (Sorry if the above reference offends your religious sensitivities.)

He certainly should but I can't see it happening. Sadly, I think he's in that type we bump into every so often in life - "I, I, I, me, me, me - oh no, that was him". Nothing endears a manager to his players more than one who takes it on the chin publicly when they screwed up. Nothing draws more player contempt than when the manager publicly blames the players for his own failures. This is why Jones needs some supervisory intervention before things get any worse.

It's so fundamental that it creates this dichotomy: if we're going to play a back 5, we have a relegation squad, but if we play a four we have a mid table squad. Same players. I'd say that about 40% of the criticism that falls on our players is self-inflicted and deserved. About 60% comes from trying to make Jones's unworkable system work. You can see the role confusion in their faces and in their movement and game-reading (or lack thereof). Salisu is a good example. Not that long ago he looked like a solid CB, and the Big Boys were watching him. But now he's caught in this mental void somewhere between CB and LB, and he's nowhere near as assured. He hasn't suddenly become a weak CD. Lyanco, on the other hand, finds a spot in our back line because we're hell bent on playing 3 CDs. For me, he either plays the Romeu role in front of the Back 4 or he doesn't play at all. So, all the marbles are down to what Jones decides/is permitted to play from hereon in.

I'm still hoping for an answer to my earlier question: who does Jones report to regarding playing affairs? We have almost total unanimity and palpable anger on here about his Back 3/Back 5 lunacy, and yet he's allowed to persist with it. I've never seen a manager so hell bent on playing to our weaknesses rather than our strengths. And he does it even though the same players consistently look much better when we play a 4. So who is it that allows (or encourages) him to keep pulling this mindless, destructive shit? My only hope at this point is that he'll be forced away from it by the arrival of the new signings, but I'm not holding my breath.

He's gone

We can keep blaming individual players until we go blue in the face, but the reality is that they're being asked to make Jones's unworkable system work. The sign of a good manager is getting the best out of his players. Almost to a man, our guys have been playing as badly as we've seen them play - until Jones forsakes his nutjob Back 3/Back 5, and then everyone looks better. I could cut Jones some slack if he looked like he was learning, but his arrogance doesn't allow that. It'll be the same at the weekend when his ego picks the team again.