egg

Agreed. A day out it football isn't the same since I stopped drinking. A few beers before the game, a couple in the middle, and a few after were a big part of the day out.

Hypo feels that there's nothing to protest against. Some may feel that there's something rather poignant about protesting about an ongoing war on a day when we remember those who passed in wars gone by. The issue is how people protest, but that's for the police to address, not a reason to not protest.

If the protest was against what we're remembering I'd agree. The protest is against an ongoing war, on a day when we remember people who perished in wars. Allow people to remember, and allow people to protest. The two can happen without detriment to the other.

I'm not sure they could. Comments like "there is a clear and present risk that the Cenotaph and other war memorials could be desecrated" are knee jerk. His "provocative" comment also feels rather provocative. Keep the protests away from areas where remembrance stuff will be happening, have a proper police presence, deal with any unlawful behaviour.

Plus there's different translations. Whatever, Hamas have changed their tune (or shown true colours) since then. Their actions on 7/10 were abhorrent, and we find ourselves where we do.

"Frustrate" is not my interpretation. It's what it says. "Kill" is your interpretation I posted above a link to the charter, with commentary, produced by the Israeli intelligence and information centre way back in 2006. I also posted a link to another take on it from an Israeli government organisation. Neither of them agree with you.

Where they can live in misery. At its simplest, a document that says that it wants Jews to live somewhere, and to live in misery, cannot possibly want them all dead, the two positions are incompatible... especially when it doesn't say that it wants them dead. Cue another confused emoji from the easily confused.

. Read back the quote that you're addressing. You misunderstand and misquote what it says and means The last bit you quoted has nothing to do with Hamas actions. They are referring to Zionist expansion, and say "Hamas is calling upon the Arab and Islamic peoples to act seriously and tirelessly in order to frustrate that dreadful scheme". How anyone can misread a clear wish to "frustrate" the Zionist expansion (something we see daily in the west bank) as a call to kill all Jews, wherever they may be, I do not know.

Ha!! I missed the part where anyone said that Hamas are sweetness and light. Try harder Whelk. The ability is there.

Do what then? Fuck all, and carry on as we have been for the last 50 + years? Doesn't sound like much of a plan. I can't believe that anyone genuinely thinks there'd be more trouble if the Palestinians and Israelis lived in adjacent states rather than the Palestinians living as they are in the west bank. Seems pretty obvious that things would improve.

Doesn't need to be said mate. I just say I'm driving which is true. Nobody gives a shit anyway, especially if they're drinking. Dodgy blood test results gave me the kick as well. I'm living with a few war wounds from it, but it could we worse, and would have been had I carried on.

Good man. When you're out for dinner and splitting the bill with drinkers, just make sure you get the king prawns and truffles to get your dollars worth!

I'm still off it, been years now. I love no hangovers, being able to get up and get on with the day, no beer belly, no regrets about what I did / said when pissed, etc. Give it a try for a while Del and see how you feel. It ain't for anyone, but a booze free life suits me.

Every article I read on the charter is about land, not the killing of Jews. That seems to be a social media interpretation. You'd think that the Israeli's wouldn't down play it, but any charter that seeks for jewish people to live in misery plainly doesn't want them all dead - those 2 positions are incompatible! Anyways, where we do agree is that Hamas are scum, and that the Israeli's ain't behaved brilliantly either. Hopefully there's a resolution and peace at some point.

Propaganda

It wasn't. This misinformation is dangerous., and you're pushing forward a message that's not even supported by Israeli produced material. See this article produced by the Israeli government regarding the Hamas charter...https://embassies.gov.il/holysee/AboutIsrael/the-middle-east/Pages/The%20Hamas-Covenant.aspx It emphasises that: "HAMAS goal of destroying the State of Israel through Jihad (Islamic Holy War). The following are excerpts of the HAMAS Covenant:" 'Hail to Jihad!'. This cry will reach the heavens and will go on being resounded until liberation is achieved, the invaders vanquished and Allah's victory comes about." (Article 33) It's Jihad against the Israeli state. Not all Jewish people. They want liberation, and the Jews vanquished, not killed. Sure, some will die in that quest, but it's wrong to keep spouting the nonsense that Hamas want all Jews dead, and that is a bar to peace talks. Hopefully you'd accept that the Israeli government probably know what they're fighting against...

Nope. They're cunts. It's the suggestion that they want all Jews dead. Something that they couldn't do even if that was their stated aim.

And the text that I've referred to, and the large document I've linked to, comes from ITIC who are an Israeli based research group with links to the IDF. I think it reasonable to assume that they wouldn't translate in favour of Hamas. Hamas want land. They want Jews to live a life of misery. You can't want people to live any sort of life if you apparently want them dead.

Where's this bit in the article I posted? "The time(16) will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: 0 Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him! This will not apply to the Gharqad(17), which is a Jewish tree (cited by Bukhari and Muslim)(18)". There is a world of difference between killing those infidels that Hamas are in conflict with, and all Jews. Don't get me wrong, the 7/10 attacks and the subsequent threat suggests that Hamas see any Jew/Israeli as fair game. Anyways, no point in getting bogged down on this. We both agree that Hamas are evil. What we won't agree on is that the Israeli government are evil in a different way.

Yep, the charter was a bit of an eye opener on the culture and mentality. Not aligned with mine, but that is what it is. Yep, it's clear that it wants all the land back. And yep, it's clear that Hamas expects everyone to join the fight... having voted them in once upon a time, I wander if Hamas would argue that everyone should be cool with being a human shield as a way of joining the fight? Possibly. Regardless, it doesn't call for the death of all Jews.

Yep. Conflict with the infidels - not the death of all Jews. Jihad against the Israeli state - not the death of all Jews. Nowhere does it call for the death of all Jews. What it actually says is that all Jews are "worthy of only humiliation and lives of misery" - Living a life of misery is not death. You'll find it there if you read it, but you won't find a call to kill all Jews - something which would be an impossible task even if Hamas had Israel's military machine and their will to use it.

I last saw him a couple of years ago in Shirley. Same suit. I've never seen someone look so scruffy in a suit.

Interesting. This calls for jihad against Israel (and it's eradication). That's not the Jewish people. https://www.terrorism-info.org.il/Data/pdf/PDF_06_032_2.pdf

Very good 🤣😂🤣

The only answer is the lovely theory that the Palestinians and the Israeli's have a state each and leave the other alone. The problem is that neither of them want that.