Lord Duckhunter

I did say that I can’t speak for the military or millions of Israeli people. However, in 2 days I probably spoke to more Israelis about his than most people have in their lifetime. There was absolutely no desire for their Government to do anything other than crush Hamas. It was early days and the full horror of what happened hadn’t really become apparent, but I was struck by the lack of real hatred towards the Palestinian people as a whole. It was solely towards Hamas . I heard worse about The Irish when the IRA were blowing up our cities. Young people in particular were not war mongers, and there was a genuine sadness about what is going to happen. There are clearly hardliners that will take a different approach & those people are in positions of power, but there definitely wasn’t a desire for blood thirsty revenge amongst the general population I met. Whilst it won’t stop The Government in the short term, I don’t think there will be the pressure for this to go on and on, and they will get a bit of wiggle room when they eventually have to “normalise” the situation.

Their motives are clearly to destroy Hamas & most probably their supporters . I don’t know whether they want to “punish” ordinary Palestinians who want to live in peace, but I doubt it. I can’t speak for The Government or millions of Israeli’s but I did speak to dozens & dozens on Sat & Sun morning whilst Hamas tried to blow us up, and to a man & women every single one understood the difference between Hamas & ordinary folk. Every single one was sad about the fate that was going to befall these innocents. However, they were resolute in their views that Hamas had ultimately cost these people their lives, as it was a consequence of their actions Sat morning.

“Egypt, nestled to the southwest of the Gaza Strip, has been in discussions with the United States and other stakeholders to provide vital humanitarian assistance via its border with the troubled region. However, it remains resolute in its opposition to allowing refugees from Gaza to enter its territory.” https://www.moroccoworldnews.com/2023/10/358262/egypt-rejects-safe-corridors-for-gaza-refugees-focusing-on-humanitarian-aid

Anyone who doesn’t think Hamas are sub human needs to have a good look in the mirror. What they did on Saturday was sub human and every right minded person should be angry. The fact you don’t seem to think so is telling and tells us a lot about you.

I actually wrote “these” Palestinian’s (as in ones that want Isreal wiped out), but don’t let that stop you twisting my words. There’s plenty of Palestinian’s living in Isreal, it’s an incredibly tolerant and diverse society. As tolerant and diverse as any European country I’ve ever visited, and more so than most. Thousands of Gaza citizens used to cross the border & work in Isreal without any problem at all. Perhaps when things are back to normal you should visit it and then you may form a better understanding of the Israeli people, and their attitude towards other religions, races & sexual orientation . You could have visited last week, but can’t this. I wonder whose fault that is, probably The Jews. The Egyptians, who could open their border & allow safe passage for women & children out of Gaza, but choose not to. Yet not one of you peaceniks seem to have an issue with this.

What a ridiculous comparison. The IRA didn’t want to murder every single British person on earth. The IRA accepted the British state’s right to exist & the IRA were prepared to sit down & discuss a peace process.. if you ran every single Jew out of Isreal & handed it to the Palestinian’s these fucking deprived sub humans would still be murdering Jews whenever they could.

Target Hamas? You do release they build shelters, tunnels amongst the civilian population, they use them as human shields. Unfortunately, you can’t wipe out Hamas without a massive loss of innocent lives. Ultimately, these innocents are dying because Hamas attacked Isreal last Saturday morning, that’s why Gaza is being flattened. There’s also a reason the Egyptian’s aren’t opening up the Rafah crossing for a safe corridor, and that’s because they want to maintain the “peace” and cooperation they have with Isreal. They don’t want these Palestinians living amongst them any more than the Israelis do. Israelis stepped back from wiping out Hamas before, they won’t do so again. Unfortunately, thousands of their fellow Palestinians are going to pay the ultimate price, but their “militants” knew that when they went on the rampage. I was drinking in Tel Aviv, this time last week, & Gaza wasn’t being flattened. Young Israelis were looking forward to a music festival, & Israeli families were enjoying time with their families. That’s all changed this week, and there’s only one group of people responsible for the change, and it’s not the Israeli’s.

So what should Isreal have done after Saturday’s attacks?

So what proportional action should Isreal have taken. I keep reading about the response being disproportionate, so what was a proportional response? Nobody saying Isreal acted disproportionately has answered that.

So what would you call proportionately, how do you think Isreal should have acted? Asked the UN to pass a resolution maybe. Perhaps negotiate with the “militants” & kindly ask them to hand over the perpetrators so they could be put on trial in Israel. What do you consider proportionate and what action do you think Isreal should have taken to maintain the delicate “peace” that existed in the area last Friday.

I’ve amended it for you…

Yes, it is a bit hard to understand. Probably because it’s not true.

Simpson is full of shit. I’ve posted examples of the BBC naming various groups as terrorists, so it’s not true they never call anyone by that name. And Simpson himself called the Charlie Hebdo murderers terrorists as well as the “ militant “ the Millwall bloke done on London Bridge. Other than that, good point well made.

It’s not just the Government though is it? Kier Starmer has called for the BBC to call them terrorists. One thing for sure had Jewish citizens attacked Muslims at a music festival, dragged them back to Isreal after raping them, murdering their babies and the elderly, you and The BBC would damn we’ll call them terrorists. And you’re the one preaching about “double standards” in the media?

It’s interesting that the usual suspects don’t seem to be critical of Egypt, who could open their border & help the relive the suffering of their Arab brothers.

Do you not not understand, these 2 statements are completely contradictory. Isreal will never be safe with those original borders, the country could easily be split by invading forces. They are not just areas the Israelis fancy moving into, they are important strategic areas which the Israelis need some degree of control over to keep the rest of the country safe.

Fuck me, you couldn’t make it up.

I watched the first one last night & thought it was shite. Coogan was very good, but it wasn’t subtle enough, and the characters were siloed into “good” or “idiot”. Fucking hell, even Stevie Wonder could have seen what he was up to if that was how he carried on from the get-go.

The reason that there will never be a 2 state solution is one side will not accept the right of the other to exist. As you rightly said, a fragile, unofficial 2 state solution existed for a number of years and this latest Hamas attack was probably a reaction to that. How on earth can the Israelis contemplate living beside people who want to murder each & every one of them. Why would you expect the Israelis to take their foot off the throat of their enemies, when that enemy want them wiped off the face of the earth. If the displaced people were given a homeland, do you think they will live peacefully beside Israel? Of course they won’t, because too many of them want Jews wiped out totally. We’ve seen in Northern Ireland & in the Balkans that counties can move on from horrendous acts and injustices, move on from hatred inflicted on each other. Uneasy peace and reconciliation can take place, but not when one side is unwilling to let the other exist and is quite prepared to murder each and every last one of them. Isreal could flatten & wipe out every single person living in Gaza. It won’t, but it could. If the other side could do that to Isreal, do you really believe they wouldn’t do it? This time last week I was drinking along Rothschild Boulevard, and the people of Gaza weren’t being bombed. The reason that changed is because of Hamas, and the fact that Hamas deliberately hide amongst innocent people. They provoked this & they are ultimately to blame for the death and destruction reaped upon Gaza at the moment.

When 7/7 happened I don’t recall too many people saying “both sides are to blame” because of our war in Iraq (which many considered evil & illegal). Everybody who wants normalisation of this area needs to accept that Hamas & Hamas alone is responsible for pushing that back a generation. Many gulf states were putting their countries on a course towards acceptance and cooperation with Israel, that is now clearly impossible as Arab nations can not do so in light of the Israeli response to this. The Egyptians response to this is very telling seeing as they also have a border with Gaza & a means of escape for all these women & children being pummelled.

To be fair to the guy, saving 4 in a row is the form of his life.

Absolutely spot on. There is no equivalence between the two sides in this particular outbreak, anymore than the 9/11 bombers were legitimately fighting back against American excess around the globe. The Israelis are facing an enemy who want every single Jew wiped off the face of the earth. So they will use any ruthless or barbaric tactic to ensure the survival of The Jewish state, because without one they will never be truly safe. The appalling anti semitic treatment they get in what are supposed to be modern liberal democracies is chilling, from celebrating terrorism against them on London streets, to people singing “gas the Jews” on the steps of Sydney Opera house. Is it no wonder they will do anything to eradicate these monsters and want a safe haven for Jews if they ever needed it. They are the only democracy in the middle east, a country that is tolerant of homosexuality, a country where women are encouraged to be whatever they want to be. Yet so called “progressives” consider them as bad as medieval savages who live in the dark ages.

He said if Baz wasn’t here he’d like to buy him. He’s either an idiot or a liar.

Thank you. They want an escalation, they want other supportive countries and terrorist groups to rise up against Isreal. There’s absolutely no way they didn’t expect this response. As other posters have said, it’s killed any agreement/ closer ties with The Saudis & other Arab nations. Peace co operation with other states is pretty much dead in the water now. You can not put the genie back in the bottle, we are where we are, we can’t return to the 1940’s. Rightly, or wrongly, Isreal exists and will exist forever more. There can be no peace until Israel’s enemies accept that fact. No peace until they are willing to live alongside a Jewish state.