Lord Duckhunter

Thanks for making my point. Chilcot, an independent chair not an MP, stopped short of saying he “deliberately “ misled Parliament. That used to be the measure, this mob changed it & deliberate is now irrelevant. It will lead to worse Government & more secretive government as ministers will shy away from full disclosure in case their advisors had made an error. Blair was told about the 45 mins, he advised the house. It wasn’t true, but only he knows if he knew it wasn’t true. If Harmen, Jenkin, & other pitchfork carrying arses were sitting in judgement under their pony remit, they’d have to conclude he’d lied.

Your “empathy” only extends to the fact Boris got fined and appeared to break the ridiculous rules, not the actual ridiculous rules themselves. Whether Boris obeyed the rules or not, they’d have faced the exact same heartbreak and distress. I’m well aware of the consequences of these ridiculous lock downs (the ones Starmer wanted more of), my father in law died, was sent off by 9 of us & was denied the chance to say goodbye to his son. The snap dragon was able to see him because she knew the nurses & doctors involved with his treatment and they sneaked her in (breaking your precious rules). As a night club owner & restaurateur he wouldn’t give a shiny shite about people having a drink whilst he lay there dying (he’d probably agree with me that it was a half arsed piss up), and I know for a fact that none of the family do either. I, unlike you, do not speak for others, every person and family is different. Some will be genuinely upset and others (you for example) are only making a fuss because it’s a Tory involved.

Zac Goldsmith who was probably the main driver behind it proposed 4% of the electorate signing a recall proposal, then 20% signing a recall petition in a 2 week timescale. This would be followed to by a by election. Those numbers feel a bit low to me, I’d probably go 20% to generate a petition, then 40% to get the poll. Id imagine if the petition % is higher than his/her majority then they’d probably quit anyway. The danger is constant petitions for the same MP so the first demand needs to be high to stop political activists organising. It needs to be ordinary joes rising up in disgust.

Had their been genuine recall in place, where somebody who signed that pledge and then voted to increase fees, could face a poll, do you think so many would have signed. Of course not. It’s not just Lib Dem’s, Cameron put an EU referendum in the manifesto thinking he’d be in another coalition & could trade it away (although to be fair to the guy he honoured it). They all promise things to gain our vote, there should be a proper mechanism holding them to account.

Why do you think that is? Because manifesto’s aren’t worth the paper they’re printed on. That stems from the lack of any meaningful sanction if commitments aren’t met. This place is full of people moaning about the Government, moaning about Tory MP’s moaning about lies, half truths and incompetence. Yet suggest constituents should be able to recall their MP’s , bd able to chuck them out mid term and you’re all horrified. You want MO’s to decide whether they have done wrong not the people. I suggest that a genuine recall act, will eventually lead to better & cleaner politics, and might start ensuring commitments, pledges and manifesto’s are honoured.

For somebody critical of another’s intellectual argument, I’d have thought you would at least know the subject you’re discussing. The pledge was in regards to individuals & how they’d vote, nothing to do with being in Government. It didn’t say “if we form the government”, it was signed as individuals and those that voted to increase fees lied to their constituents. If there was proper recall you wouldn’t get people making ridiculous statements they’ve no intention of keeping. “I pledge to vote against any increase in fees in the next parliament“

What a load of old pony. Candidates signed pledges to abolish tuition fees. They then walked through the lobbies, not even to maintain them, but to increase them. They put something in their manifesto they didn’t think they’d have to enact, purely to get more MP’s elected. That’s dishonest pure & simple. Anyone with any integrity wouldn’t have done it, luckily the British public felt like me and their sorry arses were kicked out at the next GE. You’ve also reinforced my point. Both the Cons & The Lib Dem’s had proper recall in their manifesto’s. Why was that enacted instead of this watered down version? They could have done it, didn’t need to compromise that. I’ll tell you why, because the Lib Dem’s knew their MPs would face recall over the tuition fees lies, so watered it down & got the establishment to protect them. You’ve got a party going directly against a pledge, because they wanted to stay in power, a party watering down a manifesto commitment because they may lose MP’s & a PM lying to parliament to take Britain into war, and you’re jumping up and down over a bit of cake & a half arsed piss up. Fucking hell……

I’ve watched it this week, thanks for the recommendation. Once I found it was on the BBC I feared the worse, but it was excellent. I thought 5he last one a bit boring, but the rest were spellbinding. I fully expected the army/ruc to get a clogging, but that was addressed pretty fairly, with the lunatic element in both sides of the divide balanced. They also didn’t do which most commentary does and equate Rev Paisley with Adams and Mcguiness. No doubt he was a bigot & anti catholic, but he wasn’t a terrorist who killed people, they were (although Adams hasn’t got the balls to admit it). There’s a big difference between a bigoted democrat and an active IRA member, most miss this.I was also surprised they didn’t try and do a Soggy and crow bar Charlie Hebbdo or other Muslim atrocities into it. I was fully expecting the bit about the bookmakers shooting to do this. The only criticism I had was they glossed over some of the consequences of “peace”. The two moderate parties have pretty much disappeared , so politically both sides are voting for extremists and also the mafia state of many areas of Ulster. However, all in all, it was a thought provoking , sad, educational and interesting piece of TV.

Were they lied to by Tony Blair during the Iraq war debate? I’m sure there were some that would say they were. That doesn’t make it so, & doesn’t prove he did. Did Nick Clegg lie to the electorate when he said he’d abolish tuition fees, some will say he did. They’re all economic with the truth. Liars judging whether someone lied to them. Far better for employees to judge if they’ve been lied to, but they don’t want that because they’ll actually have to enact what they campaigned on.

What a load of old pony. The system was devised like this to protect MP’s, to stop their constituents holding them to account. It’s not for you, or me, or certainly not other Parliamentarians to judge whether someone is a good MP or not. You only have to look at the reasons we got this watered down recall pony, that tells you all you need to know about what the process is designed for. Boris would probably have lost his seat under proper recall as well, but that doesn’t make this particularly process right. As with everything it will end up being abused by the party machines, party machines that people like you rally against. It’s all part of the Stepford wife cloning of politicians. Eventually this will be used the next time a George Galloway or Enoch Powell comes along, and the process will become part of the political landscape. You lefties used to be for the people exerting power over politicians, “power to the people”, now it’s “power to the establishment “. For highly intelligent remainers, you do seem to struggle with the concept that criticism of the process isn’t the same as claiming Boris didn’t mislead parliament.

What you’re incapable of grasping is it’s the process that’s wrong, not the personalities. If Nadine, JRM, Connor Burns & Dominic Raab were on it, you’d be the first moaning about it. You wouldn’t be banging on about their integrity or independence would you?

Exactly. It’s funny isn’t it, there’s universal calls for inquiries to be independent, that HoC shouldn’t “mark their own homework”, yet when it comes to the fundamental question of representing constituents in parliament, MP’s can suspend other MP’s and deny their voters that representation. They work for the people who elected them & therefore the people alone should decide. Not politicians, many of whom can’t act without bias or party loyalty. You lot are acting like this is some sort of established parliamentary procedure written in tablets of stone. It’s not, it was a grubby compromise made during the coalition days to stop Lib Dems facing recall after signing pledges to abolition tuition fees. If I stood for parliament signing a pledge to vote to rejoin the EU in any subsequent vote, and then didn’t. Who should decide if I needed suspending a bunch of MP’s, or my employers?

Perhaps Harmen should have done the same.

So why did Chris Bryant step down then?

That’s not a proper recall system, it’s not what was in the Tory or Lib Dem manifesto, but it got watered down when they released they could lose control of the system, in other words, some of their MP’s could be sacked for various “ lies” . For example, campaigning on abolishing tuition fees and then increasing them when in power. Politicians who voted for an amendment ensuring proper recall included George Galloway, Caroline Lucas & John McDonnell. Interestingly, somebody who also called for proper recall, and against a committee of MP’s deciding was Bernard Jenkin, but as we’ve seen the past couple of days he doesn’t appear to have much consistency when it comes to sitting in judgement of others.

What on earth is wrong with that. If a judge had criticised illegal immigrants crossing the channel, saying they were spongers and criminals, you’d be the first moaning if he was chair of a committee reporting on the treatment of migrants. I’m sure you wouldn’t want a Jew who called Corbyn anti-Semitic deciding if he allowed antisemitism to flourish in the Labour Party. Chris Bryant stood down as chair because he criticised Boris over partygate. Is there degrees of saying he’s guilty that is acceptable. You can say he’s guilty, and be “independent” but if you say he’s “very guilty” you can’t.

It’s always been a ridiculous bit of pony anyway, long before Boris was involved. They can lie to the electorate, the media, put things in the manifesto they’ve no intention of honouring, hand out favours on a nod & a wink. But lie to other liars, fuck me they all get on their moral high horse then. We need proper recall, so the people can decide whether they want somebody to continue to represent them. If people think the subtle change in the “misleading Parliament “ proof will end with Boris, they’re sadly mistaken. Give politicians the tools to destroy an opponent, and they’ll happily take it( and I don’t just mean in the opposite side). It’ll become another tool the whips will use to keep MP’s in line & it’ll start creeping into policy areas. They’re all pretty much clones as it is, this will make it even worse

Typical Soggy, likes to stereotype everyone. Not white, must be an immigrant. Enjoy Leon, must be born in the 50’s. Open your eyes man, don’t label everyone by colour, age, sexuality, & religion. It’s 2023 FFS.

I make it 10, sorry, 12 was off the top of my head. I think it’s 83’ the great lady 87 the great lady 92 an independent 97 referendum 2001 William Hague 2005 UKIP 2010 UKIP 2015 UKIP 2017 did not vote 2019 Boris I may have muddled a couple up, a lot of tanglefoot has flowed down the river in those years That’s hardly Tory through and through and I wouldn’t have voted for Boris without Bercow & those other clowns fucking around. As for the council, I mistakenly voted Lib Dems a couple of times, but they’re fucking corrupt like the rest of them down here. Poole People get my vote now, the major parties sold the town down the river to save Bournemouth from going bankrupt.

Nope, wrong yet again. I have voted against Tories more time than I’ve voted for them in 12 GE’s & countless local elections.

Don’t forget comparing the Jews to gingers. His position on most subjects seems to be “see what Turkish’s view is, then oppose it”.

Fucking hell, you’re not seriously trying to claim Hestletine is an unbiased source are you. He’s got severe Brexit deranged syndrome & is the go to guy for people who dont actually vote Tory. He talks about a mess, but him and Johnny Major left the Tories in a even bigger mess, decimated & facing 13 years in opposition after he helped stitch up the Great Lady. The arrogance & Europhile lies of people like him contributed to Brexit every bit as much as Boris & other Tory leavers. Talk about political failure, once he stood on his own two feet outside the great lady’s cabinet, his career was failure after failure, culminating with us leaving his treasured EU.

That’s being kind to them. McCoist, Stewart Robson, Souness different fuck8ng class to those fucking cock wombles.

It’s fucking embarrassing. Of course the players and Pep will be emotional, and they are seriously a great side. But Brian Moore and people like that didn’t do an impression of loose women, they were professional broadcasters and people like Big Mal & Cloughie proper analysts . Fuck me, if these clowns were at Mexico ‘70 theyd be wanking live in the studio over Brazil

Fuck me. Where’s the proper analysis, what bunch of fucking tarts BT are. They’re going to start crying in a minute!. Fucking chumps