norwaysaint

That's a little bit silly and immature, Pap, what he just said does have a clear logical connection with your posts and you need to read back if you can't see it or you need to rephrase it drastically if it's not what you meant. PS said that we don't have a national day in England because nothing unifies us, he then put that down to local rivalries, which you posted that that means he "gets it". Well, this can be dismissed as a reason, because other countries have the same rivalries but manage a national day, so actually his post doesn't indicate he gets it at all. The national day itself is part of what unifies those factions, at least for a day, we have all of the usual inter-city, north-south and east west rivalries in addition to an indigenous population to consider over here. In fact, I'd say many of your posts on this thread indicate a blinkered thinking, with comments to do with "where you were born" showing that you really don't get it. As to why no national day has ever started up, simple, there has never been an event big enough to inspire it. The US has its independence to celebrate, which is especially important to a nation of immigrants looking for a unified population. Norway has its independence too, from both Sweden and Denmark, plus liberation from the Nazis. Britain has trundled along as a state for hundreds of years, without needing liberating or independence. Do we have the Daily Mail? Well there's no mainstream paper quite so fear and hate-mongering, but our far right party is in government now, so believe me, their version of the news is being spread well enough.

Plenty of local rivalries over here, but it has no bearing on the national day. In fact, the national dress, or bunad, worn by most Norwegians on 17th may is a regional thing, each area has it's own design, so most Norwegians are effectively in colors all day. It makes no difference on the day though, everyone gets on and celebrates together. Also there are many, many marching bands, all representing a different area and all in competition with each other, but it's a friendly rivalry on the day. Last year I was in the main parade with my kids' school. In front of us was a marching band from Northern Ireland, invited over, behind us was a group of Malaysian women in full national costume. We passed a Scottish pipe band and many international groups, but all along the way the road was lined with huge crowds of people waving flags and cheering everybody. Like somebody said, maybe even Barry, it's not to do with where you're born, it's to do with where we all live together. It's a big community coming together event, a friendly, inclusive nationalism that makes me and most other immigrants feel like part of Norway. I think what makes it unified is the fact that it all revolves around the children too. Nobody on here has really talked about that, too many people thinking it's got something to do with gangs of tattooed skinheads. Norway isn't any kind of perfect utopian society where everyone gets along, but for one day a year we try to be and it helps.

No. Never said that and never would, we even have a far right, anti-immigration party in our coalition government now. I don't even know where you think I said that. What I said was that our national day here is set up in such a way that immigrants are inspired to join in and feel part of it, this helps a lot for both the immigrants feeling that they are a part of their new country and for those people who worry that because immigrants retain their original culture (like I have) that they have not accepted the culture of the country they live in (like I have). Like I also said, the typical symbol of this is an immigrant wearing the national dress of their original home country joining in the parade through the town while waving Norwegian flags and singing "Norge i rødt, hvitt og blått" or other Norwegian songs. An inclusive national day is good for everyone, it's a win/win. Having a few far right lunatics trying to marginalise immigrants is surely even more of a reason why you'd want an inclusive national day to try to make them feel more like a proud part of your country? Do you want them to be on the fringes and feeling apart from the rest of the nation?

I think your problem is that, because of your agenda generally being to the right, you use most issues to try to make a stick to beat the left with, often even creating threads just in the hope that you'll get a chance. But you need to put that away and talk about it like a grown up. Look back through the thread and you'll see it hasn't worked. Many left wing posters, me included, have supported nationalism and a national day. Many right wing posters have not been in favour. It's not an issue of left or right wing. It's an issue of how people feel the British deal with their nationalism. In the past it's been demonstrated in quite an unpleasant and excluding way. If an all embracing national day were created, that worked and encouraged immigrants to feel part of it too, then it would work well and would create a stronger nation. I know it's true, I see it here every year. People in national costume from Asia, Africa, or wherever waving Norwegian flags in the street and cheering and singing for Norway. Wouldn't you love to see a British version of that? My kids look forward to the national day like a birthday and I don't know anybody, literally anybody who isn't out celebrating. Nobody stays in. Those who think a national day is some kind of right wing statement are very short sighted, I can promise you it's quite the opposite when it's done well.

This is just full of ignorance. I'm an enthusiastic resident of Norway, I love the country and pay my taxes. I'm an immigrant, but you'll see me out there on the national day along with all of the other immigrants, celebrating the country we live in. Does it count less because I still support Saints and England? No, of course not and I don't know any Norwegians who'd think differently. Immigrants here are encouraged to join in with the national day and we all celebrate together. Everybody and I really mean everybody is out on the streets. Do you really think that dilutes nationalism? If so you're a moron, because all it does is build a national pride that runs through all of us, the immigrants become proud Norwegians too. The melting pot never worked in any country, what we have here are Anglo- Norwegians, Indian Norwegians etc, just like in the very nationalistic US they have Italian Americans, Irish Americans and so on, cultures within a culture. It's the attempts by the likes of you to exclude and marginalise immigrant groups for retaining any of their original culture that nationalism gets diluted. Oh and political correctness only means not unfairly discriminating against one group of people. There's nothing wrong with that, only with the idiots who don't get that simple idea and interpret it wrongly. Nobody ever did ban Christmas.

Like others have said, national days are often as a result of being liberated or declared a new country. Over here we celebrate the constitution day as a national day, there's also some celebration of the day the country was liberated from the nazis, but not a national holiday. Despite Barry's hilarious comment, no, Britain wasn't liberated from the Normans. They never stopped ruling us in one form or another until we invited over their distant relatives from other countries to replace them. There's nothing wrong or intrinsically right wing about nationalism or national days, our labour party here celebrate them just as enthusiastically as our conservative party. The only problem I've ever considered about a British national day (no real reason it should have anything to do with very non-British St George) is that there can be a British hang up where too many people have a need to mix a bit of hatred of others in with their British pride. A national day in most countries means people of all cultures coming together and celebrating the country they live in and mostly it's built around being a great day for kids. I think it would be great for the whole country to manage that. We have people parading in their national costume from wherever their home country was, the are plenty of kilts out on streets and saris and all sorts of stuff. Every home here has a flag. I think the olympic spirit showed it should be possible if people want it.

Deppo is grey crab, Ludwig and occasionally me apparently. Barry and dune share a personality and a fondness for reducing their arguments to petty name calling, but apparently can't be the same, because although both spend most of their time attacking the left and the paranoids' favourite, the non-existent liberal elite, Barry knows some places in Liverpool.

it it means it's somebody's wind up account, how many actual teenagers do you know who would give themselves that username? Plenty of bites on here too.

Disgraceful to hear such a great manager is now being abused by the disabled athletes he's given his time to help. Shocking, being disabled is no excuse for showing disrespect.

What has he said that's wrong? A lot of our young players have done well at bigger clubs and I reckon a few more of them could. He's just named two of our players (a load) as excellent players who could cut it at the highest level. We are a "breeding ground" for excellent players, fair enough. Bigger clubs would be stupid not to be interested, doesn't mean anything about whether they'll stay or go.

Yes, but even if he knew who it was and was being matey with a Pompey player, would you really be bothered like they are? Would you care if Lallana posted the picture? I don't think many of us would care.

How odd, we're seeing exactly the same thing here, one of our players cosying up with a skate, yet no saints fans seem at all bothered by it. Why has it upset them and not us?

THAT is what he's supposed to be doing!

Lallana and Lovren are certainly 2 of the best players on the pitch.

Have to feel the coverage for this sort of thing used to be better...

Talking about Luke Shaw, was anybody else a little frustrated with just how unable he is to touch the ball with his right foot at all? He is the most one footed player I've seen. When he cuts inside, he is almost completely unable to release the ball except with a back pass, because he can only swing his left foot. At one point he got turned while in position down the left and ended up being chased almost all the way back into our half because he couldn't release the ball when he was facing the wrong way, it was almost comedic. When running down the left wing, he's one of the best, but take him inside or turn him and he is utterly lost. He needs to learn to at least take a small touch with his right, it would open his game up a lot more.

we could offer him the chance to be a celebrated signing one minute and then derided as another expensive foreign waste of money if he's not been a big success after ten games. Before we sign him, we ought to work out what silly snide version of his name we're going to use at that point. How about Eversobad Banega? Ever Banegative impact? Ever Banegash?

Lallana and osvaldo our best attacking players, Lovren was still our best player, despite mistakes. have to feel sorry for Gazzaniga, when he last played it was behind a dodgy defence that left him exposed and it ended up being too much for him. He finally gets another chance just as our mighty defence starts to crumble. He wasn't particularly good tonight, but he wasn't particularly bad either, sadly the record will simply show that on his return, we let in three at home. That'll probably be enough for many to write him off again, but I still feel I haven't seen enough to judge his potential. I am fairly certain Davies wouldn't have conceded fewer though, but nobody's saying Davis is good enough either. lambert is fading as the goal threat he was and, despite the goal, I really don't feel JRod is as clinical as he should be either. I think osvaldo should be the future, but his price tag is too much of a barrier to most people's patience. Trust us to get a player from Italy who doesn't go down theatrically when he's clearly fouled in the area.

Don't remember that being said, but I remember it being pointed out that he's always scored more goals than JRod, which seems fair enough.

I think Gazzaniga's badl points were, for some reason, held against him disproportionately. At the start of last season all three keepers were making a lot of mistakes, being swapped too often and the defence was a mess. Davis started the ball rolling and perhaps his mistakes led to insecurity in the defence. Then Gazzaniga's, a comparatively inexperienced keeper was brought in at the top level behind a defence that was already riddled with insecurity and poor organisation. It went badly. then Boruc came in and was also very wobbly, I remember some embarrassing wobbles. For some reason, probably his history, he was forgiven for being rubbish by a large section of the support though, while Gazzaniga was written off already. eventually Boruc was given the run he needed to find his form again and the rest is history, but Gazzaniga has been away from the first team since then and never forgiven for his mistakes. as far as I can see, Gazzaniga may well turn out to be poor, but we haven't seen a enough to make a fair judgement. Davis has never seemed able to cope with this level, so I'd give Gazzaniga a chance. It might not work out, but I just don't trust kelvin and the jury's still out on Gazzaniga.

Within about ten years, upvc will start to show age, aluminium based will still look good after about thirty years, so worth the extra investment. the company I linked to were awarded the best in the UK for two years running, it's a very good company.

You will not find better than this company. Not the cheapest, but you get what you pay for. http://www.romseyconservatory.com

I don't really get your logic here. You say it's a bad idea to put jimmy case in the side, but at the same time, you'd put in the Gareth Bale who played for saints at left back for a season back in the championship in 2007, who a year later was struggling to hold down a starting place in the prem and for saints was often second choice to Chris Makin, and this in place of our current left back, who is proven at prem level already? That is madness. Gareth Bale in his saints prime in 2007 was clearly not a patch on Luke Shaw today.

Go ahead and treat yourself, have five. The only reason I put 3 in the op was because otherwise we've just got another "all time best saints eleven" thread, and that's been done to death. I genuinely don't really care how many people choose, why would anyone?

good call