tajjuk

Exactly a passionate wealthy owner looking for a project for fun not profit, coupled with a driven chairman who shared the owners vision and motivated people towards those goals. We have neither now and are unlikely to find that again soon. Losing Marcus was obviously heartbreaking for those that knew him, but it was also really the beginning of the end of our little adventure because this club was not his daughters passion project and I doubt Cortese would have gone with Marcus still around. Getting them was a one in a million. Without the PL we are just another middling club, like others above have said no different to the likes of Forest, Derby, the Sheffields etc. that are striving to get out of the championship.

Thing is to be the Phoenix from the ashes you need someone to drive the club forward and has the passion to do it, I find it unlikely we are going to get that lucky again.

Have to agree, when we were took over by Marcus, with NC in charge we had a clear vision and ambition, decisions top to bottom seemed to follow this visions and there was a general sense from everyone within the club of striving for the best we could be. Now it seems to be either an acceptance of mediocrity or too much belief that they got it right 2-3 years ago so they are doing it right now, whereas we have seen a catalogue of errors from the club leadership. IMO culminating in Hughes's appointment, interim appointment fine, but is shows how far the drive and ambition from within the club has dropped when he is being appointed for 3 years. We need a top to bottom clear out, but that would have to be instigated by the owner and that is not going to happen.

I don't think it was a terrible performance, they are clearly a very good team, with a player who arguably has claims to be one of the best in the world right now. We also created several good chances, both Ings and Bertrand should have scored, Ings was at 0-0 IIRC and was at time where after a start were we were hanging in, we had actually come back into the game, you never know what that goal could have done for our confidence for the rest of the game. We also hit the bar twice IIRC, forcing their keep into a couple of very good saves, which again another day one of those could have gone in. Also despite all their quality, the first goal came from an error, a good tackle from Hoedt on Hazard, he then stepped forward with ball, Hojberg asked for the ball in a poor position, Hoedt played the ball into him, he turned into trouble. He was then robbed by Barkley who slid it to Hazard, who = was just sitting in the gap vacated Hoedt (which is a natural consequence of two players going in for a tackle like that, they'll end up either side of each other) and if you give a player like that some space on the edge of box, in the form he is in, he'll punish you. And the free kick again was some switching off, allowing Giroud that much space to get in behind. The last goal was just quality but end game it didn't really matter then. Individual errors and not taking chances, sadly the story of the last two years IMO. I don't think we were terrible and 3-0 probably flattered them a little.

Yeh style, not entertainment, we are a bit of mess under Hughes, there is no philosophy at all pretty much.

This was a guy playing for Bayern Munich at 17, so he clearly always had talent and he's also physically well suited to centre-mid, so it was just about him being more consistent on the pitch, good he is finally showing it. If he comes it up we'll probably be fending of clubs higher up again.

'Big club' is a meaningless title only used by fans and is put into interviews by new players and managers to appease those same fans when they have nothing better to say about the club. Villa are a championship club, with financial difficulties (so likely need to sell players and won't offer big wages), who are unlikely to get promoted any time soon and IIRC an owner looking to sell. 99% of players and managers will be judging them on those factors and nothing else.

Hazard is close to unplayable at the moment. It's another free hit IMO, they are in too good form, plus they will probably start Giroud who always scores against us. I also think Hughes will play 4-4-2 again and that will leave the defence horribly exposed, with Kante, Jorginho and Kovavic dominating the game. We might sneak a goal because they seem to be playing David Luiz and he's always got a mistake in him. I think we will beat a top 6 team this year, but we need one of them that turns up in bad form or having played a tough champions league game.

Clyne is probably better going forward, and Cedric IMO at the moment smacks of a player too comfortable in his position and not really challenged. (same with Bertrand), he is a good player and has been very solid as a right back, but is not up there at his best at the moment. But the team's shape and system is not really helping any of our defenders at the moment, we need a manager that actually has a philosophy of how he wants to play and offers more protection for the defence. Hughes seems to have no clue at the moment as to how he wants us to play. The issue with Clyne is his fitness.

Because he hasn't, he's not even close. Hojberg, McCarthy, Ings and Vestergaard have all been better. Goals and assists are what forwards and attacking players are measured on, he does not do either. Doesn't create chances either, he does very little. Got to love people whining about stats, always hilarious when people are confronted by facts that prove them wrong. Here are some stats that show how useless he really is - - Played the most minutes along with Hoedt, Bertrand, Lemina, and McCarthy. - 0 Goals - 0 assists - 2nd most shots behind Ings, with 13 shots, but again ZERO goals. - 7th for passes, just above the Goalkeeper, again behind players who have played less minutes than him. - 7th for touches, behind players who have played less minutes than him - 1st for being dispossessed, losing the ball 17 times, 1 more than Lemina (who has also been poor), next highest is FOUR, that is right he loses the ball like 4 times more than someone like Hojberg or Ings, or even Shane Long. So what do we have there, a guy who has played a lot, but doesn't touch the ball that much, doesn't pass that much, doesn't score goals but takes a lot of shots, doesn't assist for goals, and loses the ball a lot. I mean it would be fine if his shooting and dribbles contributed something, Zaha loses the ball a lot, shoots a lot, but he also scores, creates and earns fouls for his team. (Zaha attempts less dribbles than Redmond, shoots about the same, but in less games already has 3 goals and 1 assist, he also gets fouled almost 3 times as often as Redmond) 'best player'.

Agree. We can do better than Hughes and it's worth the risk, plus we can certainly attract someone before it's too late. Let's hope the board (which really needs to go) realises that they waited too long last time and they pull the trigger a bit quicker.

Most of those clubs were top clubs, Chelsea, Liverpool, Bayern, Juventus. How many players in their early 20s actually establish themselves at clubs like those? Even Rashford is struggling, as did Mo Salah, Kevin De Bruyne etc. does not mean they are 'misfits' or bad players. And Redmond was Norwich's best player pretty much and a regular. The guy is only 24 and has already played nearly 250 league games and he's played 38 times for the England U21s. Ward-Prowse is 23 and has nearly 170 PL games under his belt, plus 31 U21 caps, a senior cap and was more regular under managers here that did better than he has been under the crap managers. Oh and both have England caps. If these players were as bad as people make out they never would be internationals, at these clubs and played so many games.

Lovren consistently makes massive f*ck ups in a Liverpool team that presses like mad, dominates the ball and generally overwhelms most teams they play. Can you imagine what mess he'd make in our current team without the same protection the Liverpool team affords him. Big difference having Milner working his arse off in front of you than Lemina strolling round the pitch. People forget the season before we bought him, Lyon pretty much much drove him to us he was that bad, he'd been sent off like 4-5 times that season and made a catalogue of errors. He's consistently had that in him throughout his career and his ego is way bigger than his actual playing ability. When put under pressure he f*cks up, that is consistently seen, and in this current team he'd be put under pressure and he'd be f*cking up just like our other centre backs are. As for Tadic, he did f*ck all for 2 years, apart from miss some big chances. It is nothing to do with a 'shift' it was to do with him actually creating chances, getting assists and scoring goals, you know stuff attacking players are supposed to do and what he consistently did not do aside for a brief spell of 6 games at the end of the season where he actually woke up. 9 goals and 8 assists in nearly 70 league games over two years, most of them starts, and IIRC 3 of those goals came right at the end of the season. In the 15/16 season he managed 7 goals and 12 assists in just 27 games. Over that same 2 year period Ward-Prowse has managed 7 goals and 7 assists, in about half the game time. If we had Tadic now, he'd very likely be doing what he'd done over the last few years, very little.

Struggled? They have had one crappy start with a few losses probably from a champions league hangover. They went like 70 games or something unbeaten last season and have won pretty much everything there is in Scotland over the last 4 years. Liverpool aren't winning the league this year, they have just had a good start and 2nd is still better than Klopp has managed so far and arguably he has had better players, some of the recruitment by Liverpool was terrible.

I think he's done fine, he's still adjusting to the league remember and plenty of slow defenders have done fine in the PL, for example John Terry or Per Mertesacker. Maguire is not very quick and he does well. It's about positioning and playing to your strengths. He already knows he is not quick and knows how to position himself. Vertonghen is not quick, does not turn that well, but is still one of the most consistent centre-backs in PL, he is protected by a DM and a hard working pressing team in front of him. Also part of the managers job is to pick a system and style of play that suits the players. If you don't have quick centre-backs you make sure you protect them with a good DM and don't play too high a line, whilst also making sure the opposition struggles to play good balls in behind. None of that is happening. Like I said on the other thread, Cedric and Bertrand have played the last 4 odd seasons playing in a 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 type systems with inside forward type players and a DM protecting the back 4 where they have a licence to bomb forward. Also in team's that generally have a lot of the ball against most similar level teams. Your full backs can't play like that in a 4-4-2, they need to be more defensive, but they are not doing that and the centre-backs are being completely exposed. We also have multiple centre-backs who are very comfortable playing out from the back and keeping the ball, but we are not really utilising that much. According to whoscored he is statistically our 3rd best performing player behind Ings and Hojberg. Also big strong and quick centre backs barely exist, there is a reason Liverpool bought VVD for £70 million, because centre-backs like him are very rare. Look at some of the top 4 still playing players like Luiz, Otamendi, or look at Man Utd you have spent like £100 million on centre backs and can't find a good one.

Have you seen Schneiderlin play recently? Not so sure on that one. Clyne probably would and I'd take Wanyama, when fit is optimisitic when talking about Lallana he seems to have turned into Wilshere. I also wouldn't have Lovren anywhere near this team, the guy is a clown of a defender. Certainly aside Lallana, who is just injury prone, most of these players have pretty much gone backwards or not improved since their time here. It probably does highlight there are a lot more factors involved as to why players play well. Schneiderlin was with us arguably one of the best defensive mids in Europe, his tacking levels, interceptions, work rate etc. was up there with the very best. Yet despite going to to play with better players (certainly at Man Utd), and gaining more experience, he has gone backwards as a player and is nowhere near his level he was at with us. The team, the manager, the player's personal motivation, the tactical system all have a massive impact. Those players all came into a team on the up, with good managers, and hungry improving players around them and they complimented the team's system and style of play. Look at Pelle, aside a couple of good seasons in a poor league he was largely a journeyman striker, but he clicked and worked for us very well. He's then gone on to averagely in a very poor league. What are our new signings coming into? A team that has been a general downward trend, with 3 managers in 3 seasons, clearly lacking in leadership both in other players and the management. A team that has no real defined style of play or tactical system, with a collection of other players clearly lacking in motivation and probably too cosy on long term lucrative contracts, with little competition pushing them to do better. A general weak mental attitude in the team that has seen them lose more points from winning positions than any other team. Is it any wonder most of them struggle? Ings seems to be the one doing pretty well, and I think one of the driving factors behind that is his motivation, he's had 3 years plagued by injury and is desperate to prove himself whatever, plus is coming to his home town club he supported as a child. He is also already used to the league and the country. The others are trying to adapt to a new league and new country, surrounded by apathetic players who are playing well below their best, with a manager who has no idea what his best eleven is or even what system and style he wants.

Motivation is probably an issue for those players, they have won the league what like 9 times in a row? They missed out on champions league which was probably the only thing that interested them. He was good at Swansea and almost won a league with pool, which Klopp hasn't managed yet despite spending way more.

Well Forster used to be good and probably has a reputation better than his current level of form/confidence. McCarthy has just been in an England squad and probably is now fulfilling the potential that saw him as a highly rated young prospect while at Reading and Gunn is one of the most highly rated young keepers in the country. Both our full backs are good on paper, they are just not playing well. Bertrand England international, at times wanted by several bigger clubs, Cedric was probably one of the most consistent full backs in the league until the last 6-9 months. Centre-backs, well Hoedt is a Holland international who was playing for a good Lazio side fairly regularly. Vestergaard, Danish international, playing regularly for a good BMG side last year, champions league the year before. Romeu was up there as probably one of the best DMs in the league a few years ago, at least outside the top 6. Lemina was playing champions league football with Juventus and Marseille. Hojberg played Bayern at like 18 and was a regular in a good Schalke side. Moe was Basel's best player last year and shone in the Champions league vs Man City. Redmond and Ward-Prowse are probably have the most England U21 caps of any players playing currently, and have bags of PL experience at young ages. Austin has a 1 in 2 PL record. Ings was highly rated before his injuries and was still getting massive praise from Klopp on his ability and they wanted to keep him. Plenty of 'on-paper' ability there IMO, they are just not performing at near their best and they are not performing as a collective unit. Whilst the squad is maybe not the best IMO it's good enough for mid-table PL if you compare it to other squads. Getting the best out of it is the manager's job and he is not doing that.

Defensive issues IMO are less to do with personnel and more to do with the whole team's shape and discipline. Like someone said in another thread, we were solid defensively under Puel playing half a season with Stephens and Yoshida, whilst despite people claiming we were boring, IIRC we were creating some of the best chances outside the top 6. Key to that was a solid defensive mid and team that knew their shape and roles. Now we are playing 4-4-2, with no defensive mid, partly not helped by Romeus alarming drop in form, and neither Hojberg or Lemina being disciplined enough for that role. Plus there seems to be no collective idea on shape or press, which you pretty much need to have in the modern game, basically defending from the front. Plus we have also abandoned the more possession based approach we had under Puel and Pellegrino, which obviously keeping the ball restricted the opposition putting pressure on our defence. So no press, no possession and no dedicated defensive mid protecting the back 4, but still two full backs who have spent the last 4 years flying forward and being the team's main width. Plus a whole pre-season playing a back 3. The likes of Hoedt and Vestergaard have come from relatively good teams in their leagues, who would have good possession, a solid system, a press in front of them and a DM shielding them. They have now been transported into playing some semi-direct 4-4-2. Is it any surprise that we are conceding goals and our defenders are making mistakes? Read that article above about up and coming coaches and particularly this point - How much of that do you think applies to Hughes? Any of those managers are worth a gamble IMO and would probably want a PL job. Rodgers has a clear philosophy and must be bored with Scotland by now, wanting another crack at the PL.

I think we could attract people, the set up is still decent, we have players who are supposedly good at least on paper and we are a premier league team and that is enough to tempt managers from Europe, even from bigger clubs. Remember Silva went from winning titles and finishing top 4 with unfancied teams in Portugal to taking over a Hull team that was almost already down, so I think we could easily attract an up and coming manager from Europe, especially in the next 2-3 months where he'd have time to turn it around. Identifying the right candidate though, based on the last 3 appointments? No. But it's still worth a gamble, I can't see Hughes turning it around. I just think the modern game has moved past him, most of his success as a manager really came like 8-10 years ago. He was ok at Stoke for the first couple of years but he inherited a very professional, well drilled team from Pulis who you'd at least know would leave everything out on the pitch, and with subsequent investment he didn't improve them that much and seemed to erode the team spirit and teamwork from that squad.

People say its the players not the manager, but IMO just look at Burnley and what a manager can do with an average bunch of players. 7th last year, Europa league gave them a slow start but they seem to be up and running now. How many Burnley players man for man would you pick for our squad? They are disciplined, hard working, have good shape, know what their jobs are and play greater than the sum of our parts. Vokes scored his 2nd goal in 30 league games today, and he's been one their main strikers. Lowton and Taylor are championship full backs, they are playing Villa reject Westwood in centre-mid, he's managed to rejuvenate Aaron Lennon and they are playing Vydra up front who is a 1 in 3 championship scorer. Has any of our last 3 managers got these players to perform even at their standard? With good shape, discipline, hard work, teamwork? Not IMO, we still have some good players, we have bought decent players. The likes of Lemina, Hoedt, Mo, Vestergaard have played champions league football in their early 20s, they can't be as bad as they are showing. IMO Hughes just doesn't know what to do, he is not tactically sound, I mean going to Wolves away with a 4-4-2 when they have Neves and Jao Mountinho in midfield? really? We need a manager that makes these players work hard, have good discipline, good shape and know what their jobs are, at the moment they don't look like a team in the slightest.

Now that is a player I'd have back, doesn't seem to be first choice at Spurs

Experienced PL managers more often than not are experienced at failure. IMO Hughes is lacking ideas how to set up teams in current game, most of his successes at turning average teams into something better was really 10 years ago. (i.e Fulham and Blackburn)

Considering they concede less goals per game when he plays compared to when he doesn't, then yes effectively he might have done. He carries their threat in attack, teams are scared of him, that in turn results in more possession, territory, space etc. for Palace and less threat towards their goal.

Statistics > 'feels' all day every day, especially the 'feels' of football fans who are in the main completely clueless.