Pwoite

Exactly my point. About ten from the o21s who we consider good, plus the kids, and that's why we will need about eight new faces.

We think we know roughly the potential budget available to the Club. We know most of our likely 'existing' squad, and we know who amongst that is not at the level, we require, so how many players are we likely to buy? Keepers - we have three, need to buy or replace at least one Right backs - ok, unless Chambers moves into the centre, then we buy. Left backs - buy one, develop one Centre backs - we currently have one very good, one okay, and two iffy players. May need to bring in one or two, even three, depending on sales and Chambers. Central midfield - Morgan is the question mark. Tadic looks to be coming, but more to replace Lallana. Reed and JWP in wings. Arguably might need to replace one of the existing squad, and no more Strikers - work on principle that Osvaldo and Sharp are not part of the plans, and that JRod is out till Xmas, then we need three, with Gallagher and McQueen in support. Pelle looks to be one, so another two purchases. So, I reckon that is eight new faces in the squad, and more potentially if we have to sell any more. At that rate, they will all be in the £8-12m bracket, with no massive names or fees likely. If this doesn't happen, the squad will be very stretched and inexperienced. If it does, then there is a hell of a rebuilding and restructuring process to undertake. Koeman will certainly earn his bacon!

If Lallana and Lovren go, RK will need to find a leader pretty quickly. Fonte would me a possibility, but might not be in the starting eleven. So, unless we bring in such a character, I'd have thought it's a toss up between Davis and Morgan.

Trouble is, JRod will still be out for the first half of the season. With Lambert gone, Lallana probably going, and no one wanting Osvaldo within five miles of SMS, it does make the current strike force look a little, well, thin! I make the front three Mayuka, Gallagher and McQueen, with, er, Billy Sharp on the bench!! We need to buy at least three strikers or attacking midfielders over the next six weeks and hope they can work togather. That will be a good test of RK and his team!

Xmas? With the way tonight's match is going, he might be lucky to make Wednesday!

Last time round there were a couple of ex Saint has beers knocking around at the World Cup finals, but clearly no current players where within a thousand miles of the final. Next summer, how many Saints will be playing? Let's hope Boruc doesn't make it, but Ramirez, Osvaldo, Yoshida, Lovren and Lambert might all be there, qualifying allowing. Wanyama looks unlikely, and Danny Fox's chances seem to be blown! Any late runners to add? Morgan, perhaps?

Obviously Isgrove is ahead at the moment, otherwise he wouldn't be in the squad, gone on pre season and so on, but I think we are looking beyond that to those not in the first team squad. So much depends on who is bought and who is injured. It also depends on cup games, how many we have and who needs to be given match time in those. For example, come the Barnsley game, Mayuka should start, so that excludes Rowe, possibly, but it might open up chances for Sinclair or Targett. I guess MP will look at the first team squad, and see who needs a start, then fill in the gaps with the kids. Then, having had that chance, that youngster needs to impress on the night to force their case. If they miss that chance, then there might not be another.

No one has mentioned Oscar Rowe. Playing well in U21 and could be an impact player this season, especially if Mayuka fails to impress.

If under the radar is playing for England U18!

Isn't the point with players surplus to requirements that it is down to cutting ones's losses or deciding to hold out for a better deal? Say SDR was on £10k a week, and his contract runs to July 1st. He would cost is around £500k this year, but whilst Steve pockets this money, he gets no games and his profile slips further, meaning next year he is in a poor position to try to get a new contract anywhere. So, cut a deal, say get paid half a year's money, and look to get a three year deal, at, say, £5k. At the end of this year he is just as well off, but he still has guaranteed earnings for two more years, so overall is in a better position, and if he does well, there is a chance of an improved contract or another move. He wins every way, providing he gets a contract. Now, the club's position is different. We forked out good money for him, which we'd like back, but each week we are spending good money after bad, so there comes a time when you have to think 'are we ever going to sell him'? If the chances are no, then it is in everyone's interest to cut a compromise package. I think last year we hoped and expected to be able to move on our 'championship squad' but apart from a few loans, that didn't happen. So, with one year left on a contract and no likelihood of getting any sale, it comes to a point where a termination of the contract suits both parties, especially as the like of SDR clearly failed to step up to the needs of the Premiership. Shame if you are the player, but the cheque probably softens the blow. However, next time, as fans, we criticise players for wanting a better deal, just think about all those players we have cast aside as no longer required. It works both ways, sometimes in our favour, sometimestheplayer's.

I have to wonder to what extent having Isgrove and Chambers coming through ore season might change ideas on who or what we buy. I think Shaw did this last year, hence why we backed out on a LB when we were all screaming for one. Maybe now are cooling on a RB as we have options with Cork and Chambers. As for wide players, I see Puncheon as a sub rather than starting, so he gives an option, as does Guly, who gets played there. Isgrove, if he continues progressing, does the same. That means we just need a striker, but has Mayuka done enough to ring him back into the frame, possibly with Sharp as a last resort? Might mean we buy no one now, or at least, won't be rushed into anything. Sorry, haven't insulted or abused anyone. I understand it is compulsory with every contribution, so might well find subscription is barred in future!

What happened to the rumours of the sponsor being bought out of their deal, and the club getting in a new big name? Was that just more typical web guff and nonsense? So no Red Bull? Or is it conspiracy time, with a few false leads to throw everyone in the wrong direction, and this shirt is exposd as hype and nonsense? Didn't we have the same debate last year, everyone criticising the design, and then record sales? And then, the year before, with the sash, and everyone getting heated about that? We could just hold fire until the announcement, then everybody fire off their criticism, regardless, even if we like it! After all, let's not give Cortese the thought we might agree with what he is doing!!

Does anyone else suspect that Davis was brought in, not only as a key midfielder able to do much of what was missing last year, such as get box to box, score goals, add some bite and experience and so on, but also to be the on the field captain? It seems to be one area where we are missing, on field leadership.... Of course, if he is fighting with JWP for a starting position, then that's that theory blown.....

Does anyone else reckon that the club are trying really hard to give the youngsters every opportunity in pre-season, with the hope that at least one will do enough to make it onto the bench if not the starting eleven? If the club is serious in developing half its team from the youth ranks, then we need to prove that we can bring players through. I know we did that with Oxlade Chamberlain, but that was in the third tier, which is somewhat different. Potentially, Ward-Prowse and Shaw look like having potential, so maybe the Buttner deal, now we have Clyne and Shaw appears to have impressed in the last two games, isn't as important as it might have been a week ago.

Palace Teamtalk says deal is done, though what that is worth, who knows. Palace fans seem to think he'll be wearing red and white stripes this season, er, oh, well, perhaps not..... If it is £1.5m, even if only the up front sum, and being out of contract, it is a hell of a good deal....

Celtic can't say 'we want' or 'we need' to sell. Hooper can't say 'I want to go'. Lennon needs to make it look as though they are fighting it, and that the price is rising. Hooper's agent wants to get the best deal possible - for himself! That's why trousers is spot on. It's like a mating ritual. We're still in the courtship.

There is something about this Hooper story that makes me believe it will happen. I have no inside line, but Adkins has a clear idea of what he is going for, we have the cash available, and it is out in the open and we appear to be pursuing the deal. This backing out is purely 'the next stage'. If we had been given a clear '@***' off from either Celtic or the player, I doubt we'd have made the second offer. Someone in Scotland wants this to happen - the club, the player or the agent, so it will! My only concern would be another club going in, but at this asking price there aren't too match, even in the Prem, who could match this offer. I'd guess Celtic want the cash, and that the player wants the pay rise, but Celtic don't want to have to match the salary increase. As for the agent.... I'm sure this one will happen.

Great thread. Started seriously, a few views, opinions, thoughts and ideas, and then degenerated into **** taking and abuse. Great, that's what I signed up for ;-)) No Dalek slagging , though, so slipping a bit. Sandwiches were a nice touch. And just to be boring - we will finish 9th with the current squad, 15th without Oxo and third with some decent signings.

Agree. Speedie. Complete tossa.

It may be crazy money, but getting £10m or £12m for Chamberlain sugars any pill. That enables us to buy three or four overpriced prima donnas in the hope that two might come off. And if they do, we're laughing. If we want to play with the supposed big boys, then we play by their rules or we get told to feck off!

Trouble is, if we keep Connolly, Harding, Butterfield, Gobern, Hammond, Martin an thecrest, then we have more than two players for every position, and who or where do we bring in new players who are expected to be better? Therefore, the knife has to be but through some. I'd start with Seaborne, and reluctantly, Holmes. Butterfield and Connolly must be in doubt if better is available. we don't need three right backs, for instance. As for strikers, any chance of Mackail-Smith joining? I don't really rate Bannard, and certainly seen nothing in Forte. Wouldn't weep buckets if either was replaced by someone better. At the end of the day, we need 22 good players...so any surplus is, well, surplus!!

Bearing in mind the huge deep divisions in Ireland, and the significance of the sash out there, and these words, we should keep a million miles away from it. Mind you, Liverpool have adapted Fields of Athenry, and no-one complains...... I'll go back to lurking.....

Bloody hell, this new forum has taken my post quota down to '1', so think I need to double it. Great moustache on the banner, though. Reckon all the team should have them for the squad photo...... Would **** off NC!!

Was there any sell on deal? Can't say I saw much future for him at SMS. Couldn't see him getting a start ahead of P-H-S-L in midfield, and would he have wanted to keep a bench warm?